when to quit

[Egarim 0]

I broke just about every bankroll when I started too. I played 10/20 with like 200 dollars in my pocket. You learn quickly though that you have to have some sense of bankroll management or you have no shot of being successful in this game. You can't really preach this though, eventually most of you will go bust playing above what you can handle and then you can either wisen up or blame bad luck and keep playing above your means and donating to players like myself. I really can't complain though, if there weren't players like this around, none of us would be eating.I love having the players sit with their entire bankroll in my games, because I know they're usually weak players. They either are just in there gambling it up hoping to get lucky or they are playing scared to death trying not to lose money. Either way, they're a sitting target for me.Back to the OP's post. It sounds like you have a gambling problem more than anything and just want to have the action, I can tell this is the case because you remember so vividly your winnings in the short amount of time. Your also talking about making profit and then taking the money out, which tells me you have no sense of bankroll management at all. That's the mentality of losing players, I'm up X amount of dollars, I'll cash out this much, so this way I can't lose my profits, which is the wrong way of thinking. Everybody thinks they're talented, but your probably just like any other player, you just happen to think your exceptional. Most good players couldn't tell you how much they win, because they concentrate on playing their A game and not how much they're winning. My advice for you is to learn this game, keep working on it and be humble about it. Don't think you have some natural talent for this game, because you probably don't.

Good point. Agreed. Read DN's article on play hours not results. I missed this evaulation. Very nice jayboogie.EDIT: When you start playing online and have a small bankroll, this phase is inevitable. I think almost all of us have gone through this phase.

[Pupsta 0]

dude, are you even listening to yourself? "i'll never get past playing my cards because i advise people that are asking for help not to do what i did and lose their bankroll"he came here and said one of his biggest problem was bankroll management, and you're trying to give him advice on how to completely mismanage his roll just becuase he's 'comfortable' at a certain level. that's exactly what happened to me...i was running $50 sitngo's, hit a bad streak, and instead of dropping to 20's at a reasonable time, i stayed at $50's until i went broke because i was more 'comfortable' there.come on, i'm sure another bankroll management purist should be perusing this forum...someone step in and help me out here, or someone come in and tell me i'm dead wrong and i'll go back into my cave.

$50 SITNGOS is quite different than 200NL cash games. I've had experience in both areas and they should not be confused. You obviously don't have the same experience as we do. I'm not saying that your advice is completely irrelevant by any means. I respect what your saying. I am merely saying that for some people .25/.50 is just tooo low. If he has 2k and plays 200NL and he should be ok if he's good and comfortable with those limits. Sure, the safe play is to play 50NL and build it up. I also said if he loses a couple 200 buy-ins at the beginning then he has to drop down to 100NL. It all depends on the person and situation. If you happy playing 50NL and not making much money then by all means play at that limit.

i'm now going to disregard everything you've said and just label you an idiot.

[DaBruins 0]

I broke just about every bankroll when I started too. I played 10/20 with like 200 dollars in my pocket. You learn quickly though that you have to have some sense of bankroll management or you have no shot of being successful in this game. You can't really preach this though, eventually most of you will go bust playing above what you can handle and then you can either wisen up or blame bad luck and keep playing above your means and donating to players like myself. I really can't complain though, if there weren't players like this around, none of us would be eating.I love having the players sit with their entire bankroll in my games, because I know they're usually weak players. They either are just in there gambling it up hoping to get lucky or they are playing scared to death trying not to lose money. Either way, they're a sitting target for me.Back to the OP's post. It sounds like you have a gambling problem more than anything and just want to have the action, I can tell this is the case because you remember so vividly your winnings in the short amount of time. Your also talking about making profit and then taking the money out, which tells me you have no sense of bankroll management at all. That's the mentality of losing players, I'm up X amount of dollars, I'll cash out this much, so this way I can't lose my profits, which is the wrong way of thinking. Everybody thinks they're talented, but your probably just like any other player, you just happen to think your exceptional. Most good players couldn't tell you how much they win, because they concentrate on playing their A game and not how much they're winning. My advice for you is to learn this game, keep working on it and be humble about it. Don't think you have some natural talent for this game, because you probably don't.

Good point. Agreed. Read DN's article on play hours not results. I missed this evaulation. Very nice jayboogie.EDIT: When you start playing online and have a small bankroll, this phase is inevitable. I think almost all of us have gone through this phase.

speaking of play hours, i just played 14 hour session on 1 table (2-5 no limit game at Casino Morongo). I bought in for 300 and swung as low as 80 bucks and as high as 1300. Ended up cashing out at around 1k.

[jayboogie 0]

First you should be playing within levels your bankroll can take. Second you should keep playing as long as the table is good and you are mentally able to play your top game. Right now is does not appear that you have the right mental state to being playing period (not trying to be harsh on you. just an honest opinion).The swings people are mentioning in the above posts sound like people are jumping levels too quickly (assuming that they are playing at a level within their bankroll to begin with). Either that or people are pushing way too often in marginal situations giving them those high good/bad luck swings.

When you have a small bankroll of lets say... 1k or lower... and you know your capable of playing at a much higher lvl and making a lot more money, I don't think it's wrong to be playing 1-2 and breaking standard bankroll rules. When your bankroll is this low, it'll take too long to build it by playing 25NL. Think about when you put ur first 50 or 100 in. You're forced to play more than your bankroll can handle. But you managed (well, I'll just assume u did).But in the end it comes down to what are you comfortable with?

apparently he thinks he's comfortable with 5/10, so telling him to throw his 1k bankroll into a higher game than .25/.50 is absurd. you might as well type up your rebuttal to his "my aces just lost to QJo for $2000 and i'm broke" thread.

U stick to your .25/.50 game then. If he likes to play at 5/10NL then theres no way he'll sit down at that table. Everyones different. If you don't take that into account at the poker table you'll never be past just playing your cards. Also, if you're too afraid to lose then you'll never make it to the high limits. playing 50NL with a 2k bankroll isn't worth it. 100NL for him is the minimum. For others .25/.50 is the max.

dude, are you even listening to yourself? "i'll never get past playing my cards because i advise people that are asking for help not to do what i did and lose their bankroll"he came here and said one of his biggest problem was bankroll management, and you're trying to give him advice on how to completely mismanage his roll just becuase he's 'comfortable' at a certain level. that's exactly what happened to me...i was running $50 sitngo's, hit a bad streak, and instead of dropping to 20's at a reasonable time, i stayed at $50's until i went broke because i was more 'comfortable' there.come on, i'm sure another bankroll management purist should be perusing this forum...someone step in and help me out here, or someone come in and tell me i'm dead wrong and i'll go back into my cave.

$50 SITNGOS is quite different than 200NL cash games. I've had experience in both areas and they should not be confused. You obviously don't have the same experience as we do. I'm not saying that your advice is completely irrelevant by any means. I respect what your saying. I am merely saying that for some people .25/.50 is just tooo low. If he has 2k and plays 200NL and he should be ok if he's good and comfortable with those limits. Sure, the safe play is to play 50NL and build it up. I also said if he loses a couple 200 buy-ins at the beginning then he has to drop down to 100NL. It all depends on the person and situation. If you happy playing 50NL and not making much money then by all means play at that limit.

There is such a thing as variance that even the greatest players can't fade. Bad runs happen where nothing can be done, which is why a bankroll is neccessary in the first place. It's not even about what your comfortable with, it's having the discipline to know that I don't have the bankroll for this game, so I will grind it out until I do have the bankroll to play the higher games. I have much more respect for someone with the discipline to play the smaller games than someone who plays the bigger games, but are playing way above their means. People tend to think just because you play higher your a better player, the truth is this is simply not the case. There's bad players at all levels, the bad players at the bigger games just happen to have a fatter wallet to feed their addiction. Anyways, your not the first or last person that's going to have these opinions and players willing to go in there and gamble pay the bills for the rest of us. No matter how talented you are, playing on a short roll, you simply can't win. You can't fade variance and it'll catch up to you eventually, be sure to let us know when it does.

[AspiringPro 0]

Thanks for all the advice. I have 7.5k roughly to my name and I have no outgoings apart from going out buying clothes etc. I earn 30£ a week since I was about 14. I have built this. If I hadn't played poker my wealth would be about 4k. I still don't fully understand what my bankroll is because the next time I play Ill probably deposit 100$ play 1-2 build up to 3-4oo then maybe play a few tourneys and build to a suitable amount like 8-900 withdraw stop for a while and deposit another 100$ and try to do same. If i lose the 100$ ill depos another 100$ at a later date not same day however. I don't know how my BR comes into this as if i had 8-9k or 15k i mite do the same. So whats the advice. A part of me has to admit that i can't 100% handle 3-6 NL the money bit too high nd I lost 600$ with aa preflop not a mistake obviously. However if that happened on 1-2 i'd probably lose less. I think moving up the levels must be done by playing higher levels. let me explain 3-6 NL playing that has given me valuable experience that will help me win at 2-4NL i feel. So how much shall i deposit on pacific with my 7.5k bankroll what shoul;d be my tactics. im happy to steer clear of 3-6 but feel i can beat the 2-4 and 1-2 game. After a break I feel i will learn value of money and play gd poker once again. And wont need to chase the "rush" of 3-6 nl but be happy grinding out a long but more satisfying 2-4 Nl profit. also 7.5k might not be considered my whole bankroll because thats all the money i have in the world its not my poker money its my money period. So im not sure how to work out what proportion is BR. Also kepin notes which ar helpful to look back on

[Pupsta 0]

Thanks for all the advice. I have 7.5k roughly to my name and I have no outgoings apart from going out buying clothes etc. I earn 30£ a week since I was about 14. I have built this. If I hadn't played poker my wealth would be about 4k. I still don't fully understand what my bankroll is because the next time I play Ill probably deposit 100$ play 1-2 build up to 3-4oo then maybe play a few tourneys and build to a suitable amount like 8-900 withdraw stop for a while and deposit another 100$ and try to do same. If i lose the 100$ ill depos another 100$ at a later date not same day however. I don't know how my BR comes into this as if i had 8-9k or 15k i mite do the same. So whats the advice. A part of me has to admit that i can't 100% handle 3-6 NL the money bit too high nd I lost 600$ with aa preflop not a mistake obviously. However if that happened on 1-2 i'd probably lose less. I think moving up the levels must be done by playing higher levels. let me explain 3-6 NL playing that has given me valuable experience that will help me win at 2-4NL i feel. So how much shall i deposit on pacific with my 7.5k bankroll what shoul;d be my tactics. im happy to steer clear of 3-6 but feel i can beat the 2-4 and 1-2 game. After a break I feel i will learn value of money and play gd poker once again. And wont need to chase the "rush" of 3-6 nl but be happy grinding out a long but more satisfying 2-4 Nl profit. also 7.5k might not be considered my whole bankroll because thats all the money i have in the world its not my poker money its my money period. So im not sure how to work out what proportion is BR. Also kepin notes which ar helpful to look back on

ok, you still seem to be someone that just chases the thrill and then pulls out his $ just to do it again. you're going to need to make a decision...are you a) doing this to grind out an actual poker bankroll to work with and build up and move up in limits until you are earning enough to satisfy you, or B) playing poker as a hobby and just want to fart around with a few hundred to see what you can do, and start all over again.if you're serious about grinding out a bankroll and *not touching it to buy clothes/toys*, put in 20 buyins for whatever level you plan on playing. 1/2, put in $4000, and do not move up to 2/4 until you have 20 buyins for that next level. if you feel you can do this, then go for it, and you truly will be an "aspiring pro." if the proposition of having 4k online that you aren't touching scares you, you can either start at a lower limit and grow your bankroll that way, or you can keep with these mini chases that results in major swings but no long-term satisfaction.whatever path you take, good luck.

[AspiringPro 0]

When pacific only had 1-2 NL there were more nutters on there but now the nutters go the new higher levels. This I assume is why 1-2 NL is harder to make big profits with on pacific. I have built my money to over 1300$ on 1-2 don't think that is possible anymore. Please give me some more positive feedback i am overwhelmed by how much response my post has received but still want more! Maybe thats because all my other posts were BS!

[Pupsta 0]

When pacific only had 1-2 NL there were more nutters on there but now the nutters go the new higher levels. This I assume is why 1-2 NL is harder to make big profits with on pacific. I have built my money to over 1300$ on 1-2 don't think that is possible anymore. Please give me some more positive feedback i am overwhelmed by how much response my post has received but still want more! Maybe thats because all my other posts were BS!

you have the completely wrong mindset for someone that's an 'aspiringpro' trying to grind out a bankroll. grinding out a bankroll isn't about "making big profits," it's about making sound decisions and letting the percentages do the talking. sure, you'll have your nights where you hit the "big profits," but a grind is just that: a grind. you sound like you still haven't gotten the thrill chasing out of your system, or that thrill chasing is what poker is all about for you. either way, my advice is pretty pointless to you if that's what you seek out of poker.

[Egarim 0]

There is such a thing as variance that even the greatest players can't fade. Bad runs happen where nothing can be done, which is why a bankroll is neccessary in the first place. It's not even about what your comfortable with, it's having the discipline to know that I don't have the bankroll for this game, so I will grind it out until I do have the bankroll to play the higher games. I have much more respect for someone with the discipline to play the smaller games than someone who plays the bigger games, but are playing way above their means. People tend to think just because you play higher your a better player, the truth is this is simply not the case. There's bad players at all levels, the bad players at the bigger games just happen to have a fatter wallet to feed their addiction. Anyways, your not the first or last person that's going to have these opinions and players willing to go in there and gamble pay the bills for the rest of us. No matter how talented you are, playing on a short roll, you simply can't win. You can't fade variance and it'll catch up to you eventually, be sure to let us know when it does.

I've been through variance and seen my share of bad runs. First off, u do have to be comfortable with your limits and bankrolls or you won't play well. Grinding it out at 50NL may give him more respect but it wont give him more money. If you factor in the rake and everything, you won't make much per hour and it'll take a long time to build ur bankroll. Although there's nothing wrong with this, and it does show a lot of discipline, this is simply where our opinions diff when you have a SMALL bankroll. For example, if DN went broke playing BG heads up. He wouldn't even be playing the 5-10 game. He'd borrow money and ATLEAST play at 30-60 even though he doesn't have the bankroll for it since he's broke. Now, if you played like this over the long run then you won't be a winner. But at the beginning when u have a very small bankroll and I don't see a problem with playing 200NL with a 2k bankroll. Now, if he lost a couple buyins he must drop down immediately and grind it out. But if he's comfortable with it he can break in and start playing hrs not results and probably just stick at 200NL while he keeps building it up. Playing at 50NL where you make a few bucks/hr is not worth it. Might as well get a job. It's safer and consistent. Then bulid your roll with ur job until u have enough to play 200NL.

[jayboogie 0]

Thanks for all the advice. I have 7.5k roughly to my name and I have no outgoings apart from going out buying clothes etc. I earn 30£ a week since I was about 14. I have built this. If I hadn't played poker my wealth would be about 4k. I still don't fully understand what my bankroll is because the next time I play Ill probably deposit 100$ play 1-2 build up to 3-4oo then maybe play a few tourneys and build to a suitable amount like 8-900 withdraw stop for a while and deposit another 100$ and try to do same. If i lose the 100$ ill depos another 100$ at a later date not same day however. I don't know how my BR comes into this as if i had 8-9k or 15k i mite do the same. So whats the advice. A part of me has to admit that i can't 100% handle 3-6 NL the money bit too high nd I lost 600$ with aa preflop not a mistake obviously. However if that happened on 1-2 i'd probably lose less. I think moving up the levels must be done by playing higher levels. let me explain 3-6 NL playing that has given me valuable experience that will help me win at 2-4NL i feel. So how much shall i deposit on pacific with my 7.5k bankroll what shoul;d be my tactics. im happy to steer clear of 3-6 but feel i can beat the 2-4 and 1-2 game. After a break I feel i will learn value of money and play gd poker once again. And wont need to chase the "rush" of 3-6 nl but be happy grinding out a long but more satisfying 2-4 Nl profit. also 7.5k might not be considered my whole bankroll because thats all the money i have in the world its not my poker money its my money period. So im not sure how to work out what proportion is BR. Also kepin notes which ar helpful to look back on

First of all, keep your own personal money seperate from your poker bankroll. DO NOT EVER COMBINE THEM!!! Your bankroll is like the tools of the trade for what you do. If you don't have a bankroll, you simply can't play poker. That's the way you have to treat it, it enables you to make money and is a neccessity. Stop thinking about putting in $100 and running that up to X dollars and cashing out, what kinda thinking is this?? These kinds of Hit and Run Tactics DO NOT WORK!!! I don't know what else I can say, but eventually you'll learn the hard way.

[Pupsta 0]

There is such a thing as variance that even the greatest players can't fade. Bad runs happen where nothing can be done, which is why a bankroll is neccessary in the first place. It's not even about what your comfortable with, it's having the discipline to know that I don't have the bankroll for this game, so I will grind it out until I do have the bankroll to play the higher games. I have much more respect for someone with the discipline to play the smaller games than someone who plays the bigger games, but are playing way above their means. People tend to think just because you play higher your a better player, the truth is this is simply not the case. There's bad players at all levels, the bad players at the bigger games just happen to have a fatter wallet to feed their addiction. Anyways, your not the first or last person that's going to have these opinions and players willing to go in there and gamble pay the bills for the rest of us. No matter how talented you are, playing on a short roll, you simply can't win. You can't fade variance and it'll catch up to you eventually, be sure to let us know when it does.

I've been through variance and seen my share of bad runs. First off, u do have to be comfortable with your limits and bankrolls or you won't play well. Grinding it out at 50NL may give him more respect but it wont give him more money. If you factor in the rake and everything, you won't make much per hour and it'll take a long time to build ur bankroll. Although there's nothing wrong with this, and it does show a lot of discipline, this is simply where our opinions diff when you have a SMALL bankroll. For example, if DN went broke playing BG heads up. He wouldn't even be playing the 5-10 game. He'd borrow money and ATLEAST play at 30-60 even though he doesn't have the bankroll for it since he's broke. Now, if you played like this over the long run then you won't be a winner. But at the beginning when u have a very small bankroll and I don't see a problem with playing 200NL with a 2k bankroll. Now, if he lost a couple buyins he must drop down immediately and grind it out. But if he's comfortable with it he can break in and start playing hrs not results and probably just stick at 200NL while he keeps building it up. Playing at 50NL where you make a few bucks/hr is not worth it. Might as well get a job. It's safer and consistent. Then bulid your roll with ur job until u have enough to play 200NL.

something key that you said in your post...if DN lost all of them and went bust, and were to grind it out, he would *borrow* money to be able to play 30/60, which means he'd still be properly rolled for the game, instead of taking the smaller bankroll he has and throwing it to the variance wolves.

[AspiringPro 0]

Cheers you are 100% right the method I have been playing is completely wrong it is a disaster. I have won about 4k as a poker player over 6 months but it has just dawned on me I am bad at BR management. I don't think I can deposit 4k in dollars however which is needed for 1-2 NL my strategy could be to depos 200$ and try to build high to about a k but keep in my account. continue playin 1-2 and stoppin once one lot of 200$ is lost. setting strict limits. my mistake was obvious BR management is everything. I have the talent and I know can kill the 1-2 NL game and i have to patiently work my way up the levels instead of workin my way up levels in one shift of poker1 how stupid is that. I realised wiv the 900$ i had in my pacif account. with variance i cud lose all the 900$ without making mistake. 900$ is a lot of money to lose to me in my BR so cant justify playin those limits. shud have just played 1-2 and win 1-200 dollars a day and maybe step up to 2-4 once i have enough. also when u depos 4k how much do u withdraw and when do u withdraw!

[Egarim 0]

Thanks for all the advice. I have 7.5k roughly to my name and I have no outgoings apart from going out buying clothes etc. I earn 30£ a week since I was about 14. I have built this. If I hadn't played poker my wealth would be about 4k. I still don't fully understand what my bankroll is because the next time I play Ill probably deposit 100$ play 1-2 build up to 3-4oo then maybe play a few tourneys and build to a suitable amount like 8-900 withdraw stop for a while and deposit another 100$ and try to do same. If i lose the 100$ ill depos another 100$ at a later date not same day however. I don't know how my BR comes into this as if i had 8-9k or 15k i mite do the same. So whats the advice. A part of me has to admit that i can't 100% handle 3-6 NL the money bit too high nd I lost 600$ with aa preflop not a mistake obviously. However if that happened on 1-2 i'd probably lose less. I think moving up the levels must be done by playing higher levels. let me explain 3-6 NL playing that has given me valuable experience that will help me win at 2-4NL i feel. So how much shall i deposit on pacific with my 7.5k bankroll what shoul;d be my tactics. im happy to steer clear of 3-6 but feel i can beat the 2-4 and 1-2 game. After a break I feel i will learn value of money and play gd poker once again. And wont need to chase the "rush" of 3-6 nl but be happy grinding out a long but more satisfying 2-4 Nl profit. also 7.5k might not be considered my whole bankroll because thats all the money i have in the world its not my poker money its my money period. So im not sure how to work out what proportion is BR. Also kepin notes which ar helpful to look back on

This is completely the wrong mindset. Maybe I was wrong about u playing 200NL. At highest right now u should be playing 100NL. BTW: pls clarify if you're playing Shorthanded or fulltable. You need to seperate your money from your bankroll. I do not confuse the two. A lot of pros have a rule that once they take money out of their poker bankroll for whatever reason (by a car, house, bills, etc.) it's gone. Whatever money comes out of your poker bankroll stays out. I'm assuming u live with ur parents and don't pay bills... So u have 7.5k. I recommend you put in $200 into your acct to start. Call that your bankroll. Play 50NL and see how u do. If you're making money DO NOT deposit more money, do not cash out, and do not move up in limits. Call that your bankroll and grind it out. You need to learn to play for hrs not results (Pls read DN's article he wrote on this. You can find it on cardplayer.com in the archives). Once u make it to 2k I think u can start playing 100NL but if you find too much variance or it's not going well move back to 50NL and keep going back and forth until u beat 100NL.

[StonedViper 0]

I have a different problem, i have the roll to play at a higher limit but stay at the .50/1 & 1/2 limits.Winning $20 is as satisfying as winning $200 to me.I never have trouble quitting a game, i play 2-3 hr sessions and then take a break wether i'm up or down.Anyway, my question is is their anyway that i can kick myself to move up in limits or should i just wait till the .50/1 & 1/2 games aren't satisfying anymore?ThanksViper

[Egarim 0]

Cheers you are 100% right the method I have been playing is completely wrong it is a disaster. I have won about 4k as a poker player over 6 months but it has just dawned on me I am bad at BR management. I don't think I can deposit 4k in dollars however which is needed for 1-2 NL my strategy could be to depos 200$ and try to build high to about a k but keep in my account. continue playin 1-2 and stoppin once one lot of 200$ is lost. setting strict limits. my mistake was obvious BR management is everything. I have the talent and I know can kill the 1-2 NL game and i have to patiently work my way up the levels instead of workin my way up levels in one shift of poker1 how stupid is that. I realised wiv the 900$ i had in my pacif account. with variance i cud lose all the 900$ without making mistake. 900$ is a lot of money to lose to me in my BR so cant justify playin those limits. shud have just played 1-2 and win 1-200 dollars a day and maybe step up to 2-4 once i have enough. also when u depos 4k how much do u withdraw and when do u withdraw!

Ok you have 900 now. Play at the 50NL and build it up. Cash out only when you need to if u need to buy something, pay bills etc. All the money in ur acct is ur poker bankroll. DO NOT mix it with ur other money.

[Pupsta 0]

Cheers you are 100% right the method I have been playing is completely wrong it is a disaster. I have won about 4k as a poker player over 6 months but it has just dawned on me I am bad at BR management. I don't think I can deposit 4k in dollars however which is needed for 1-2 NL my strategy could be to depos 200$ and try to build high to about a k but keep in my account. continue playin 1-2 and stoppin once one lot of 200$ is lost. setting strict limits. my mistake was obvious BR management is everything. I have the talent and I know can kill the 1-2 NL game and i have to patiently work my way up the levels instead of workin my way up levels in one shift of poker1 how stupid is that. I realised wiv the 900$ i had in my pacif account. with variance i cud lose all the 900$ without making mistake. 900$ is a lot of money to lose to me in my BR so cant justify playin those limits. shud have just played 1-2 and win 1-200 dollars a day and maybe step up to 2-4 once i have enough. also when u depos 4k how much do u withdraw and when do u withdraw!

you're talking about depositing just enough for *one* buyin, and then changing your strategy if you bust? that's disastrous, and you'll be posting on here asking for more help after that.like jayboogie said, you need to set aside x dollars to do nothing but play poker with. pretend like it's not cash when you're playing with it online, that way you can't say "holy shit, i just bet and lost an xbox" or whatever. you need to find something you're comfortable with starting with, and play the appropriate levels from there. playing 1/2NL on a $200 bankroll is NOT going to cut it. how much of your total money are you willing to set aside just for poker, that you don't touch?

[jayboogie 0]

There is such a thing as variance that even the greatest players can't fade. Bad runs happen where nothing can be done, which is why a bankroll is neccessary in the first place. It's not even about what your comfortable with, it's having the discipline to know that I don't have the bankroll for this game, so I will grind it out until I do have the bankroll to play the higher games. I have much more respect for someone with the discipline to play the smaller games than someone who plays the bigger games, but are playing way above their means. People tend to think just because you play higher your a better player, the truth is this is simply not the case. There's bad players at all levels, the bad players at the bigger games just happen to have a fatter wallet to feed their addiction. Anyways, your not the first or last person that's going to have these opinions and players willing to go in there and gamble pay the bills for the rest of us. No matter how talented you are, playing on a short roll, you simply can't win. You can't fade variance and it'll catch up to you eventually, be sure to let us know when it does.

I've been through variance and seen my share of bad runs. First off, u do have to be comfortable with your limits and bankrolls or you won't play well. Grinding it out at 50NL may give him more respect but it wont give him more money. If you factor in the rake and everything, you won't make much per hour and it'll take a long time to build ur bankroll. Although there's nothing wrong with this, and it does show a lot of discipline, this is simply where our opinions diff when you have a SMALL bankroll. For example, if DN went broke playing BG heads up. He wouldn't even be playing the 5-10 game. He'd borrow money and ATLEAST play at 30-60 even though he doesn't have the bankroll for it since he's broke. Now, if you played like this over the long run then you won't be a winner. But at the beginning when u have a very small bankroll and I don't see a problem with playing 200NL with a 2k bankroll. Now, if he lost a couple buyins he must drop down immediately and grind it out. But if he's comfortable with it he can break in and start playing hrs not results and probably just stick at 200NL while he keeps building it up. Playing at 50NL where you make a few bucks/hr is not worth it. Might as well get a job. It's safer and consistent. Then bulid your roll with ur job until u have enough to play 200NL.

The problem with your thinking is very simple. If you continue to do this at the bigger games, you will go bust. It's better to learn your lessons when they're cheaper than to learn in the bigger games when it's more expensive. If you don't have discipline, you can't be successful in poker. You probably have not played long enough to realize the extreme swings this game provides, especially in the higher games. I've played higher limit games with a short bankroll, everyone has done it at some point, but you eventually realize it's one of the dumber things to do. I skipped the low limit games all together so I've learned this on my own beats. Like I said, this is one of those lessons that you have to learn yourself, because people can tell you over and over not to do it and many people will still do it.

[lboarts 0]

First you should be playing within levels your bankroll can take. Second you should keep playing as long as the table is good and you are mentally able to play your top game. Right now is does not appear that you have the right mental state to being playing period (not trying to be harsh on you. just an honest opinion).The swings people are mentioning in the above posts sound like people are jumping levels too quickly (assuming that they are playing at a level within their bankroll to begin with). Either that or people are pushing way too often in marginal situations giving them those high good/bad luck swings.

When you have a small bankroll of lets say... 1k or lower... and you know your capable of playing at a much higher lvl and making a lot more money, I don't think it's wrong to be playing 1-2 and breaking standard bankroll rules. When your bankroll is this low, it'll take too long to build it by playing 25NL. Think about when you put ur first 50 or 100 in. You're forced to play more than your bankroll can handle. But you managed (well, I'll just assume u did).But in the end it comes down to what are you comfortable with?

apparently he thinks he's comfortable with 5/10, so telling him to throw his 1k bankroll into a higher game than .25/.50 is absurd. you might as well type up your rebuttal to his "my aces just lost to QJo for $2000 and i'm broke" thread.

U stick to your .25/.50 game then. If he likes to play at 5/10NL then theres no way he'll sit down at that table. Everyones different. If you don't take that into account at the poker table you'll never be past just playing your cards. Also, if you're too afraid to lose then you'll never make it to the high limits. playing 50NL with a 2k bankroll isn't worth it. 100NL for him is the minimum. For others .25/.50 is the max.

dude, are you even listening to yourself? "i'll never get past playing my cards because i advise people that are asking for help not to do what i did and lose their bankroll"he came here and said one of his biggest problem was bankroll management, and you're trying to give him advice on how to completely mismanage his roll just becuase he's 'comfortable' at a certain level. that's exactly what happened to me...i was running $50 sitngo's, hit a bad streak, and instead of dropping to 20's at a reasonable time, i stayed at $50's until i went broke because i was more 'comfortable' there.come on, i'm sure another bankroll management purist should be perusing this forum...someone step in and help me out here, or someone come in and tell me i'm dead wrong and i'll go back into my cave.

OK, I'm chiming in. I think Egarim has a good understanding of bankroll management (brm), but you're limits are a little higher than most would agree with. As far as SnGs go, I make a living at them and I use a set of rules that allow me to make 3-4k per month on a 1k roll. Because I must cash out to pay my bills and raise my family, I abide by 1 simple rule. I never spend more than 10% of my roll on a SnG. If I'm at 1k and I lose a $100 SnG, my next buy in will be for $90 or less. It's a simple concept but it works for me, because I rarely lose more than 3 in a row, and cash in atleast 3 in a row many times. Slumps and variance seem to be extremely low when I concentrate on SnGs. For those of you who can afford to not withdraw your roll, try this for a month and see if it doesnt work. Keep in mind you should cash in atlest 40% of your SnGs for this to work.

[Pupsta 0]

I have a different problem, i have the roll to play at a higher limit but stay at the .50/1 & 1/2 limits.Winning $20 is as satisfying as winning $200 to me.I never have trouble quitting a game, i play 2-3 hr sessions and then take a break wether i'm up or down.Anyway, my question is is their anyway that i can kick myself to move up in limits or should i just wait till the .50/1 & 1/2 games aren't satisfying anymore?ThanksViper

if you're happy where you are, you're happy where you are. i doubt there's anything we can say or do to help you kick yourself to the next limit. maybe throw in one higher limit table if you multitable, and see how you like it? say, if you 4 table, do 3 1/2 tables and one 2/4 table?

[AspiringPro 0]

i play 6 handed that is my passion I can't be bothered to wait for monster son 9 handed table but don't get the wrong thought that I am loose player who can't play. Another answer is I know have the talent I make mistakes but I cant play any lower than 1-2NL I am probably more profitable on 1-2 NL than 0.50 c -1d NL because sometimes i feel the smaller the stakes the easier people find it to call. I was tryin to win money too quick i was playin 2-4 for about 30 mins. up about 80$ and i wasnt happy and i wasnt gettin no rush. went on to 3-6 i was riskin all my pacific money in one or two hands everytime. this may seem stubborn but i wont play ne lower than 1-2 NL i beat the game up too bad usually when i lose is because i go up the limits. so if i deposited 500£ and caled it my BR and played 1-2 i know it is too little BUT I know it is very unlikely ill go broke on 1-2 i know its hard to say but this is my honest opinion then i can grind it out and continue to build and not move up level then smaller proportion of my BR will be at risk

[Egarim 0]

something key that you said in your post...if DN lost all of them and went bust, and were to grind it out, he would *borrow* money to be able to play 30/60, which means he'd still be properly rolled for the game, instead of taking the smaller bankroll he has and throwing it to the variance wolves.

Technically DN would have 0 money. He's borrowing money which is the worst situation u can be in. Whereas, lets say a person has a 2k bankroll and he's a good player and beats the 200NL (I'm no longer referring to aspiringpro so this doesnt pertain to you anymore considering your situation and what you've said so far. SO this person is completely hypothetical) If he loses 2 buyins then he immediately moves down. to grind back to 2k safely. Now if he doesn't hit a slump in the immediate future and is beating the game he can build his bankroll to a safe point where he is playing 200NL consistently. Now, for another situation. Let say u deposit $100. You start playing $25NL. Variance can easily bankrupt u. But I'm assuming you can put in another 100 easily and keep playing to bust into the 200-300s. Of course the best way to build a small bankroll is with sitngos and an occasionaly mtt. So, I'm not recommending the cash game method, I'm merely stating that for some people it's a better way (assuming they're good and can beat the game).

[Pupsta 0]

i play 6 handed that is my passion I can't be bothered to wait for monster son 9 handed table but don't get the wrong thought that I am loose player who can't play. Another answer is I know have the talent I make mistakes but I cant play any lower than 1-2NL I am probably more profitable on 1-2 NL than 0.50 c -1d NL because sometimes i feel the smaller the stakes the easier people find it to call. I was tryin to win money too quick i was playin 2-4 for about 30 mins. up about 80$ and i wasnt happy and i wasnt gettin no rush. went on to 3-6 i was riskin all my pacific money in one or two hands everytime. this may seem stubborn but i wont play ne lower than 1-2 NL i beat the game up too bad usually when i lose is because i go up the limits. so if i deposited 500£ and caled it my BR and played 1-2 i know it is too little BUT I know it is very unlikely ill go broke on 1-2 i know its hard to say but this is my honest opinion then i can grind it out and continue to build and not move up level then smaller proportion of my BR will be at risk

have fun gambling then.move along everyone, nothing more to see here.

[Pupsta 0]

something key that you said in your post...if DN lost all of them and went bust, and were to grind it out, he would *borrow* money to be able to play 30/60, which means he'd still be properly rolled for the game, instead of taking the smaller bankroll he has and throwing it to the variance wolves.

Technically DN would have 0 money. He's borrowing money which is the worst situation u can be in. Whereas, lets say a person has a 2k bankroll and he's a good player and beats the 200NL (I'm no longer referring to aspiringpro so this doesnt pertain to you anymore considering your situation and what you've said so far. SO this person is completely hypothetical) If he loses 2 buyins then he immediately moves down. to grind back to 2k safely. Now if he doesn't hit a slump in the immediate future and is beating the game he can build his bankroll to a safe point where he is playing 200NL consistently. Now, for another situation. Let say u deposit $100. You start playing $25NL. Variance can easily bankrupt u. But I'm assuming you can put in another 100 easily and keep playing to bust into the 200-300s. Of course the best way to build a small bankroll is with sitngos and an occasionaly mtt. So, I'm not recommending the cash game method, I'm merely stating that for some people it's a better way (assuming they're good and can beat the game).

i can understand risking it with 10 buyins, that's fine. earlier posts suggested $200NL on a $1000 bankroll, which is just dumb if you're trying to build up. the guy wants to play 6 handed $200NL on a $200 bankroll. whatever floats his boat, or his dinghy after he's done with his gambling spree.

[jayboogie 0]

I can see how you remember all your winnings so vividly if your just popping in $100 and just building it up from there, rinsing and repeating. If you have a bankroll, you probably won't even remember how much your winning or losing, because if your a winning player, it all takes care of itself.

[AspiringPro 0]

Of my 7.5k i hardly spend and if i do its very small proportion my friends no i prefer to play poker than buy material things. Im not that much of a donut i do know how to play which some of you find hard to understand but have made fatal error in BR management id be happy to call it all my BR but what would my parents think they wouldnt understand theyd think id be more likely to lose it all. Which opposite is true. i cud not tell them of course which is not bad because I know i wudnt lose it. I am gunna deposit 500£ and grind it out over summer. I have to work 6 hours a week and the rest of the time i have is free im goin to grind it out and win money like a real pro.