what do you think?

[Mantis666 0]

Table '10260647 2' Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: coltman712 (435 in chips) Seat 2: buster99 (2235 in chips) Seat 4: Wally18 (1870 in chips) Seat 5: EastCoastPmP (5450 in chips) Seat 6: Radek (4325 in chips) Seat 7: Mantis666 (5070 in chips) Seat 9: vianu (2610 in chips) Wally18: posts small blind 50EastCoastPmP: posts big blind 100*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Mantis666 [Qs Js]Radek: folds Mantis666: raises 100 to 200vianu: folds coltman712: folds buster99: calls 200Wally18: folds EastCoastPmP: calls 100*** FLOP *** [9c 8d Qc]EastCoastPmP: bets 500Mantis666: raises 500 to 1000buster99: folds EastCoastPmP: calls 500*** TURN *** [9c 8d Qc] [6c]EastCoastPmP: bets 900Mantis666: calls 900*** RIVER *** [9c 8d Qc 6c] [4c]EastCoastPmP: bets 3350 and is all-in

[zimmer4141 0]

I don't know. I don't have a read on the players at the table. However, I don't like the minimum raise before the flop. Either limp in or raise to 3x BB. A minimum can only get you more committed, and isn't going to force anyone out. P.S. You should post this in strategy section.

[wannabe 0]

Fold after the turn

[zimmer4141 0]

Yeah, definitely fold after the turn. Most players will simply bet when they hit their flush rather than drawing more out by checkraising. No clue why you would call on the river. That's just a horrible call as you are beat by any club, a higher Q, 2 pair, 107, etc. etc...

[Mantis666 0]

First into the pot=raise(something). Normally I do come in for 3-4xbb

[Mantis666 0]

I have over 1/2 my chips in the pot and i felt there was a VERY strong chance he was semi bluffing(weak queen, middle pair or worse).

[zimmer4141 0]

On the turn, if you think he is semi-bluffing, then raise him. Put in a minimum raise and fold if he comes over the top. But, there is no way at all you can call on the river. Doing so is just giving away your chips.

[Mantis666 0]

again, his bet on the flop told me he was protecting from the flush he hadnt been betting his draws all night. Admittedly this play i based on my read, which is hard to convey here.

[Tparks86 0]

Fold after the turn

[Mantis666 0]

Guys... theres no way i put him on the flush. do you always fold to a bet when a draw hits?

[Nutcracker 0]

again, his bet on the flop told me he was protecting from the flush he hadnt been betting his draws all night. Admittedly this play i based on my read, which is hard to convey here.

He minraised to protect from a flush? Even if he is a retard and that is true, don't you think maybe he's protecting a better hand than TP3K?

[Moneyball16 0]

I don't know. I don't have a read on the players at the table. However, I don't like the minimum raise before the flop. Either limp in or raise to 3x BB. A minimum can only get you more committed, and isn't going to force anyone out. P.S. You should post this in strategy section.

[Mantis666 0]

He bet the pot on the flop, I raised. Any questions?

[Nutcracker 0]

Oh, misread. My second question still stands. By the way he played it, don't you think it's possible that he's got a better hand than your QJ? I'd say it's very likely.

[Mantis666 0]

not really. it was a definate possibilty which is why i raised(on the flop). When he called that told me he didnt have a stong hand.

[Mantis666 0]

Im off to a tourney, so ill mark this and post results and respond to any other comments later

[pokerloser 0]

Hey Mantis666, You asked for everyone's opinion and then spend the rest of the thread argueing every single post. Regardless, 4 clubs on board and you don't have one, even if you stayed after the turn how could you continue after the river with no club? You didn't add the results so I hope we are all wrong and you called and caught him bluffing. I alaways root for the fcp'ers

[Catamo 0]

Raising the min is weak poker. Your not going to get anyone to fold who already has chips in the pot. Pot odds demand they call.

[Nutcracker 0]

There's 3 possibilities here.1) He's on a complete bluff from the get go. This is very unlikely as he just called your flop raise, then bet out like 1/3 pot size on the turn. If that's a bluff, it's a rather poor one.2) He's on some kind of draw from the start. You say he doesn't bet his draws, but how many hands have you played with him? It's hard to have a good read on something like that in a NL SNG.a) He didn't hit it and is betting on the end to hopefully take the pot. Tell me what draw could possible have not hit by that river. KT with no club maybe?B) He hit his flush/straight/whatever and is now getting more money out of a loose player.3) He had a made hand of some kind on the flop. Tell me what kind of made hand is going to pot it on the flop, then bet out 1/3 pot on turn. It's better than TP3K, that's for sure. He's obviously afraid of the flush on the turn, but still wants to lay bad odds for anyone with a single club. He bets small enough to lay bad odds to the flush draw and give him a chance to fold if you move all in. He then bets the river hoping you don't have the Ac and he can get a smaller flush or straight or 2 pair or whatever he thinks you have to lay down.If you won this pot, I'd be very surprised. You're behind here way way way more times than you are ahead, even with his somewhat odd play. Results based thinking is bad, but I'd like to know how it turned out anyway. Just remember that if you did win, it wasn't a brilliant call, it was getting lucky.

[Pupsta 0]

the lesson here: donkeys can never fold toppair.no matter what happened in the hand, you donked it up. congratufuckinglations if you won it.

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

First in the pot raise something? Fair but you telegraphed your hand with you rmin raise. If im on the button and its folded to me and I notice your raises telegraph the strength of your hands, I will raise a substantial amount and you will be forced to fold the best hand. If you want to raise the min. fine just dont raise according to the strength of your hand or your ooponents will have a tremendous advantage, especially w/ position. You might min. raise on button with this hand if everyone has limped in front. Good value raise, but otherwise you will get outplayed by any thinking player.

[Spademan 94]

the lesson here: donkeys can never fold top pair.no matter what happened in the hand, you donked it up. congratufuckinglations if you won it.

Donkiedoo indeed.Even if your read was great and you just knew he couldn't beat your pair and kicker, not moving on the turn when there are draws, including a 4th possible flush card draw, meaning he needs only one, is just terrible.The call with the 4 to flush on the river is atrocious, even if it seemed like a bluff, he only needed a tiny club as part of it.

[Mantis666 0]

After going over the hand and reading all your posts I can see just how bad I played this. I will try and explain what I was thinking. (so you guys can help me stop donkeydooin it up.) 1. 18 left out of 27. table felt T.P. with two exceptions, Seat 5 very L.A.(whom I started the tourney with) and seat 9.2. min raise preflop- im just looking to lead out here. With a bigger stack im trying to push whenever I can. I under stand QJs isnt that great of a hand but with the villain in the bb I was looking to get a call and bet/raisea scary flop. Pot=5503. Ok so I hit my queen. I figure I have the best hand at this point, so when he leads out and bets the pot i think 3 things.a. He paired up. If thats the case I really like my hand right now, so i raiseb. He on a draw. If he is im thinking its pretty weak. I still raise.c. He is full of s h it. I put him on a or c. To tell you the truth I was thinking he had a pair with a back door. I see the problem with my play here. If what I was thinking was true I needed to raise more (all-in?)here and take it down now. Pot=25504. I now like to refer to this as THE WORST CALL IN THE HISTORY OF POKER!! (whats that smell????...oh..wait...its me.)Pot=43505. At this point i realized how much this hand was going to cost me. I really didnt want to play a big pot here. When villain moves all-in at the end I new I was screwed. I compleatly when on tilt in the middle of his bet.6...

[Mantis666 0]

Table '10260647 2' Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: coltman712 (435 in chips) Seat 2: buster99 (2235 in chips) Seat 4: Wally18 (1870 in chips) Seat 5: EastCoastPmP (5450 in chips) Seat 6: Radek (4325 in chips) Seat 7: Mantis666 (5070 in chips) Seat 9: vianu (2610 in chips) Wally18: posts small blind 50EastCoastPmP: posts big blind 100*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Mantis666 [Qs Js]Radek: folds Mantis666: raises 100 to 200vianu: folds coltman712: folds buster99: calls 200Wally18: folds EastCoastPmP: calls 100*** FLOP *** [9c 8d Qc]EastCoastPmP: bets 500Mantis666: raises 500 to 1000buster99: folds EastCoastPmP: calls 500*** TURN *** [9c 8d Qc] [6c]EastCoastPmP: bets 900Mantis666: calls 900*** RIVER *** [9c 8d Qc 6c] [4c]EastCoastPmP: bets 3350 and is all-inMantis666: calls 2970 and is all-inEastCoastPmP said, "nj"*** SHOW DOWN ***EastCoastPmP: shows [9h 2h] (a pair of Nines)Mantis666: shows [Qs Js] (a pair of Queens)Mantis666 collected 10390 from potEastCoastPmP said, "gg"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 10390 | Rake 0 Board [9c 8d Qc 6c 4c]Seat 1: coltman712 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: buster99 (button) folded on the FlopSeat 4: Wally18 (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 5: EastCoastPmP (big blind) showed [9h 2h] and lost with a pair of NinesSeat 6: Radek folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: Mantis666 showed [Qs Js] and won (10390) with a pair of QueensSeat 9: vianu folded before Flop (didn't bet)I was lucky this guy had a weak hand and ran in to a guy who couldnt find the right button to push.

[MilesZS 0]

Good god. Did you put this guy on your buddy list? He's awesome. I don't even know what more to say about someone who will go all-in like that with ... just ... good god. Ridiculous.