was this correct?? comments please

[Dhall901 0]

I find it very difficult to not result to insults when faced with your blatant censored. If I had the chance to meet you, I would certainly result to violence. Resort maybe?This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time, you defending using the wrong phrase by using the wrong word.Hahaha.Really funny.You'd be unconcious in about 30 seconds if you "resulted" to any violence near me. Don't fool yourself.

Oops made the same mistake you did about 20 minutes ago. Asians, lol. Macho macho man...

[elaear 0]

call and all-in is awful...you're still crushed if he has an overpair (unless he has 44 and the flop came with 3 paint), and all you did was give him a free chance to connect with his overs. there still is a bit of fold equity here, so pushing preflop is where it's at.

[repost since you clearly missed my reply.]with those blinds and that size raise, you have to figure he has a decently strong hand (a 2-2.5x bb raise would be more of a steal bet), therefore it'd be less likely for him to fold preflop. i'd say it's more likely for him to miss the flop and fold to an all-in.

here's where that's bad.let's put him on a range of hands of AT-AK, nines and above, if you're assuming good hand, and give scenarios for each.AT-AK, you push preflop and he calls. coinflip, you win or you lose.AT-AK, you call and push with any flop...he folds if he misses (thus most likely losing you the $ you would have won had you pushed pf), calls if he hits and you lose.99-AA, you push pf and you're fucked.99-AA, you call and push the flop, unless the flop is 2 overs, he's still calling with the better hand and you're fucked.the only way you win this hand is if he misses the flop, and if he misses the flop, you'd rather be doubling up in this situation than winning just the 20k.

1) i'd extend the pp list from 55-AA. 22-AA, even, since he's on the button (but still strong, i might add).2) missing the flop does not mean missing the turn and river. he can still hit a pair on those streets.3) i'd take a 1/2 potential pot loss if that means still gaining chips AND a greater chance of survival.

[Dhall901 0]

Meh, this was fun, night kids.

[Pupsta 0]

call and all-in is awful...you're still crushed if he has an overpair (unless he has 44 and the flop came with 3 paint), and all you did was give him a free chance to connect with his overs. there still is a bit of fold equity here, so pushing preflop is where it's at.

[repost since you clearly missed my reply.]with those blinds and that size raise, you have to figure he has a decently strong hand (a 2-2.5x bb raise would be more of a steal bet), therefore it'd be less likely for him to fold preflop. i'd say it's more likely for him to miss the flop and fold to an all-in.

here's where that's bad.let's put him on a range of hands of AT-AK, nines and above, if you're assuming good hand, and give scenarios for each.AT-AK, you push preflop and he calls. coinflip, you win or you lose.AT-AK, you call and push with any flop...he folds if he misses (thus most likely losing you the $ you would have won had you pushed pf), calls if he hits and you lose.99-AA, you push pf and you're fucked.99-AA, you call and push the flop, unless the flop is 2 overs, he's still calling with the better hand and you're fucked.the only way you win this hand is if he misses the flop, and if he misses the flop, you'd rather be doubling up in this situation than winning just the 20k.

1) i'd extend the pp list from 55-AA. 22-AA, even, since he's on the button (but still strong, i might add).2) missing the flop does not mean missing the turn and river. he can still hit a pair on those streets.3) i'd take a 1/2 potential pot loss if that means still gaining chips AND a greater chance of survival.

either way, you're either busting, or you're gaining 60% less chips 70% of the time when they miss the flop. call/push is almost as bad as raise/fold.

[teneight 1]

Dhall= the smarter version of Jfarrell ....and that's not a compliment. hahahahahahaa

[Pupsta 0]

Meh, this was fun, night kids.

fgures...you get completely demolished from every angle, so you run and hide.sleep well, maybe in the morning you can result to riding your bike instead of taking the bus to your mcdonald's shift.

[Smasharoo 0]

Oops made the same mistake you did about 20 minutes ago. Asians, lol. Macho macho man.I'm not asian.I'm also 6'2 240.I also didn't use the wrong word or phrase to express something, unless I misspelled "good" as "god" or something.

[Pupsta 0]

Dhall= the smarter version of Jfarrell ....and that's not a compliment. hahahahahahaa

i have to draw the line somewhere..that's just not right.jfarrell would advocate the allin-muck.

[elaear 0]

i'd say it's more likely for him to miss the flop and fold to an all-in.No. He's calling getting 2 to 1 with almost anything.

that's true, but i'd still say he's more likely to fold to an ugly flop (say 77 with a A K x board) than fold preflop, given that he made a substantial raise. why raise almost 3.5x bb if you're trying to steal? a raise of 2.5x the bb is more than sufficient to steal at those blinds. also, the player must have taken into consideration that the OP was short-stacked, and attempting to steal from a short-stack is a big mistake.

[Pupsta 0]

I find it very difficult to not result to insults when faced with your blatant censored. If I had the chance to meet you, I would certainly result to violence. Resort maybe?This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time, you defending using the wrong phrase by using the wrong word.Hahaha.Really funny.You'd be unconcious in about 30 seconds if you "resulted" to any violence near me. Don't fool yourself.

Oops made the same mistake you did about 20 minutes ago. Asians, lol. Macho macho man...

lemme get this straight...you misread what i say to be insulting to blacks, then you turn around and throw a racial insult out without your target even being the named race?

[Pupsta 0]

I find it very difficult to not result to insults when faced with your blatant censored. If I had the chance to meet you, I would certainly result to violence. Resort maybe?This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time, you defending using the wrong phrase by using the wrong word.Hahaha.Really funny.You'd be unconcious in about 30 seconds if you "resulted" to any violence near me. Don't fool yourself.

Oops made the same mistake you did about 20 minutes ago. Asians, lol. Macho macho man...

lemme get this straight...you misread what i say to be insulting to blacks, then you turn around and throw a racial insult out without your target even being the named race?

[Dhall901 0]

Oops made the same mistake you did about 20 minutes ago. Asians, lol. Macho macho man.I'm not asian.I'm also 6'2 240.I also didn't use the wrong word or phrase to express something, unless I misspelled "good" as "god" or something.

wait wait..three respected posters all attacking me. Perhaps I should step back and reevaluate my position. Still wouldn't push with 33, that's my position and I'm sticking to it. I'm too tired and drunk for this nonsense. It was god times though, wait...good.

[hoosierAKs 0]

To whoever commented about how many winning players play "against the books and the math"...Against, the books, maybe. Against the math, NEVER.All-in here is the correct play, folding is understandable but in my opinion wrong... unless you're looking to jump up a spot or two and there's some VERY VERY short stacks still in.

[Spademan 94]

Smash and pup... I usally find you guys pretty reasonable.But here it is clear you are both DEAD WRONG.Dhall is spot on here, the obvious correct play is to wait untill you 16,000 chips, are holding 7-2 off and and have 1/3rd of your stack in the BB to make your move. It's so simple, ****ing idiots.

[teneight 1]

if you still want to have a good chance of winning the tournament, moving in here is the best optionteneightps. just ask daniel

[hoosierAKs 0]

Although he never does, this is a perfect example of where I'd love to see DN put in a simple 2-3 word reply just to completely shut up one side of the arguement.Then again, I'd also love to see him intentionally say something like "call with the intent of open-folding the flop", just to see how many people will actually accept that as the proper plan of action.

[Pupsta 0]

Smash and pup... I usally find you guys pretty reasonable.But here it is clear you are both DEAD WRONG.Dhall is spot on here, the obvious correct play is to wait untill you 16,000 chips, are holding 7-2 off and and have 1/3rd of your stack in the BB to make your move.  It's so simple, censored idiots.

touche

[Randy Reed 0]

I'm late to chime in here, but on the surface the all-in with 33 is correct, but we really haven't been given enough info here to know for sure. First we don't know the stack size of the remaining 3 at the table. The BB is still to act behind us and could be short stacked or have them both covered. Will they merge at 9 or 10 players? What is the payout? Would coasting double the profit you would make? You are not in dire straights with 67K left here, and another person is going to me moved to the table if the merge doesn't happen sooner which could buy you a few more trips aroung the table to make something happen. Oh yeah, and what's the read on the guy raising? Is he a blind weevil? Though pushing is ok here, it isn't a cinch to be the best move and obviously wasn't this time.

[njtitans16 0]

wait any longer and you lose all in power from the antes.push now and if he calls its probably a coinflip.otherwise, you get fold equity from him having a hand (KT) but thats not good neough to call, or he was on a pure steal.edit:: actually, calling is not AS bad as you guys might think it is ONLY if you do a stop & go. (calling with the intention of pushing no matter what the flop is). Since you have betting position (which by i mean you bet first) you can just push all in on the flop and push him off a hand with overcards such as his AQ or AJ if he didnt hit. however, this is dangerous because if he was ona pure steal youre giving him a chance to hit his hand. but if you got a solid enough read that he had overcards, he probably wont fold AJ or AQ depending on his stack no matter what so why not see the flop and let him not hit and then push.

[dharris 0]

what exactly are you waiting for, the aces fairy to come down and tickle your nuts?

This line is absolutely great.BTW, this is definitely an All-in or fold. I don't know that there is a right answer - but I certainly couldn't criticize the OP for going all-in.Devo

[HoosierAlum 0]

This is what you should do:Raise the min.If the raiser on the button shoves all-in, fold.Fold getting 4.25-1 on your call waiting for a better spot.By better spot I mean shoving with a hand such as Q10o from UTG. You guys are all wrong. Stupid Donkeys.(sw)

[gadjet 11]

Smash and his lapdog are correct (again) of course... Allin or fold are your two options, depending on all the other elements that some other poster went over, things like stack sizes, payout structure, image of the aggressor etc etc... In general I'd prefer to fold, simply because the bettor has already lead out with 1/3 to 1/4 of his stack. I prefer to make moves on pots where people aren't already representing big hands. There are plenty of pots you can be the aggressor on and build your stack. Trying to pick up blinds at this level of the tourney is huge. That said, that is just my style of play, but going All-in is the other option.P.S. To the guy who said he wishes DN would come in and say 2 words to end the argument. I'm a big fan of DN and how he treats his fans etc. But as his latest blog talks about he is just another dude, he's had great success, but he is still just making his own decisions. He definately does not have the final say in all that is poker theory. I'd recommend taking any poker advice you read with a grain of salt and analyzing it and blend it into your own style and context... if you are talking straight poker theory I'd probably take Smash's posts over DN's. Disclaimer: THIS DOES NOT MEAN SMASH IS A BETTER PLAYER, Dn obviously has one of the best "feels" for the game of any pro, his reading and sense of poker is among the elite. But for straight theory knowledge Smash has proven himself to be very well versed.

[HoosierAlum 0]

After reading through this entire thread, it became extremely obvious why I make a very healthy second income playing poker. I love the people who say it is a good idea to call and then push after the flop. Yeah, great idea. This way you can win the minimum and lose the maximum every time. Good strategy.It is great that some people are this ignorant when it comes to no-limit tournament strategy.

[HoosierAlum 0]

if you are talking straight poker theory I'd probably take Smash's posts over DN's. /quote]This one is going to stir up some controversy.

[zimmer4141 0]

OK, let's let the tourney pro get his say. (sw)I personally think the OP made the exact correct play. Chances are that this guy is on a steal play from the button, and the 3s is almost a semi bluff. If he is stealing, then he will probably fold, and you add 26,000 to your stack. If he is not stealing, then you are most likely in a race like you were. Little bad luck, and you're out. When the blinds are that high, you have to win a few races to get back in it. I don't think folding is an option at all here. You only have 11 BBs left, and 5 handed you can't wait for premium hands.