letter from howard lederer

[jayistheman 0]

in the tournament of champions, didnt dan sit in the 3 seat and annie was in the 4 seat?if my memory serves me correct i would 1.) like to re-watch it and 2.) try to pick up on some subtle hatred between one another.

lol, there's actually a post on RGP about that also, the only thing that anybody could pick up (that was aired) was when annie went all in for some hand, and i think it was cheap for daniel to call for some reason, and he did, and she had a decent had qj,KJ,KQ,etc... and daniel had something like 7h 9h or the like, and annie said something like "im kind of scared because daniels the only person that can actually win with cards like those" or something along those lines, i dunno just watch toc again and you'll see it.

i remember the super bitchy "how much do you have left, daniel?"

[Guest Anonymous]

Ok ... I'm gonna say somthing ... and I don't intend to start a fight ... but I think if you look around you will find alot of people that have fights from time to time. I have faught with people where I work ( this is a job for them ) and eventually everything worked out. I would almost have to imageine that is what happened here. Plus with these two there is alot more money on the line when someone does something crazy and or stupid. However ... since we don't know the facts ... only bits and pieces of information I don't think any of us can say for sure what did or did not happen. Just my two cents ... I meant no harm so please don't get riled up with this post.

[FalWat 0]

This is my first post here but this one I couldn't avoid. Although I'm not a fan of "rumor mongering"...A few months back I was playing a small tournement at the Sands in AC and the poker room manager and I were discussing the Showdown. He had generally positive things to say about everyone, including Daniel, but he made it a point of saying that Annie Duke was 1: Abusive 2: Arrogant 3: And yelled at them for not giving her preferential treatment. The phrase he used was along the lines of "Don't you know who I am."

[KidKanuck 0]

[KidKanuck 0]

"I recall one post by Daniel that was just a huge rant, and detailed multiple points on why he thought she was unethical, and basically bad for the game of poker. It's worth the read, if you can find it."At risk of posting in a thread that has little or no value....wait a second I normally post things of little or no value...I will be right at home :-) I think this is the historical post you speak of....I particularly like the part I bolded considering the state of things today :-) Daniel Negreanu Feb 19 2003, 2:56 am show options Newsgroups: rec.gambling.poker From: kidpo...@hotmail.com (Daniel Negreanu) - Find messages by this author Date: 19 Feb 2003 02:56:29 -0800 Local: Wed, Feb 19 2003 2:56 am Subject: Annie Duke Anecdotes (long) Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse I'm often asked what makes me think that this woman is such a lowlife. Here are just a few examples of facts that make up what thiswoman truly is as far as I‘m concerned. For those of you who don'tcare to read it, you can stop now and save your complainin':1) Wanna Split it?- Playing in a stud 8 or better side game, Annie washeads up with one other player. After much betting it appeared asthough Annie had the high hand and the other had a low made by sixthstreet. The player with the low board asked if she wanted to splitit. Annie said, "Yeah, ok". The player threw his hand toward themuck expecting the dealer to start chopping the pot, when Annie said,"Wait, only if you have a low I mean."Once she said yes however, the pot should ethically be split. Despite virtually everyone in the game explaining to Annie that onceshe says yes to a chop, she has to chop. She wouldn't budge. Finally, after much hysteria she decided to give the player back ONLYthe money he put into the pot. Had the tables been turned, she'sstill be blue in the face about how unfair that was.******************************************************************************2) I swear on my kids!- Annie habitually leans over to look at thecards of the person sitting beside her in a game, whether they like itor not. Well one day one of the players was fed up with her sweatingher neighbor's hole cards and he spoke up about it. She obligedsaying, "Ok, I won't look anymore."Not an hour later, a triple draw hand comes up, and she is caughtred handed looking at her neighbor's hole cards again. This time theplayer objected furiously, "I told you to stop looking at yourneighbor's cards!" To which she replies, "I SWEAR ON MY CHILDREN IWASN'T". This was an absolute lie. She saw EXACTLY what card herneighbor got and ANNOUNCED the hand before it was turned over, alsosaying something to the effect of, "Oh you would have made it anyway."**A 4 had been flashed that would have been her neighbor's card. Instead she received a 6 to complete a 2-3-5-6-7, which is the thirdbest hand in 2-7 triple draw (the 4 would have been the mortalnuts).** Later, Annie falsely claimed that the player who was upsetwith her threw a chair AT HER. Again, impossible.******************************************************************************3) Just checkin'- Playing in a one table satellite for the main eventat the WSOP, Annie was up against Tony Ma and Dan Alspach. Tony movedall in on the button, Annie folded in the small blind and Dan beganstudying. After some time, Dan folded his hand, and Tony threw hiscards towards the muck telling Dan "Aces. I had two Aces." Wellafter the hand hits the muck, Annie GRABS THE HOLECARDS, LOOKS ATTHEM, and says "Just checkin‘" as if she had done nothing wrong.******************************************************************************4) Sitting in a short handed 300-600 mixed game in 1999 I wasunfortunate enough to have to sit beside Annie. Again, she has asimple rule that she lives by, "It's ok for me to look at your holecards when I am out of a hand but I can't show you mine because Ican't give away any information". Niiiice. Anyway, after about 30minutes of her sweating my hole cards, I KINDLY say, "I'd actuallyprefer it if you didn't look at my hole cards since we are shorthanded and all." (5 handed at the time). About 15 minutes later,another player sits down in the game making it six handed.So know after I've raised before the flop and she'd folded, shelooks over at my hole cards again. This time saying, "It's sixhanded, I can look now". Niiiice.******************************************************************************5) Oh my God, it's so my seat- On a Monday night Annie walked into thepoker room to put her name on a list. When the seat opened up, thefloor man called out a name that wasn't yet present. Annie said, "Ifhe's not here it's my seat." To which the floor man replied, "He'sjust outside, he's on his way.""Oh my God no way! You can't do that! You can't lock up a seat ifyou aren't even here!" After much bickering the poor floor mansuccumbed and gave her the seat.Wednesday night, EXACT same scenario, only this time Annie was theone who was first up on the list but not present at the time the seatwas called. Now this time, she is arguing for the OPPOSITE ruling."Oh my God, I was right here. I was here to put my name on the list. I didn't even leave the building" (how the floor man is supposed toknow that is anyone's guess). Anyway, after throwing yet anotherhissy fit she got that seat too. This is one of Annie's commonpractices: "Argue NOT for what's fair and just, argue only for whatbenefits you." Niiice.******************************************************************************6)This is the worst thing that has ever happened to me in atournament- At the WSOP main event in 1999, Annie was involved in apot with another player who had limped under the gun. Annie raisedthe limper from the button with A-7 offsuit. When it got back to thelimper, he went to make a raise, but DIDN"T SAY RAISE, and then wentback to his stack to raise even more. Well, in any no limittournament that is considered a string raise. Not always called, butit's a string raise nonetheless. Well, another player, Steve Kaufman,called the string raise to the dealer's attention. To which Annieshouted, "Oh my God, you're not even in the pot! What are you doing! Oh my God, this is the worst thing that even happened to me in atournament!" etc.She was upset with the fact that she had now been raised the minimumby the limper and was "forced" to call the extra 60,000 raise. Afterlambasting Mr.Kaufman for something he had EVERY RIGHT to do, sheended up flopping an ace and WINNING the pot because of the calledstring raise. "Well maybe that was the BEST thing that ever happenedto me in a tournament." Snort, snort, giggle, giggle.******************************************************************************7) Cup Boy- Finally, my first ever meeting of this woman was at theFour Queens in 1996 when I was just barely 22. Up to that point I'dhad virtually no success in tournaments in the US, but was eager tolearn from the so called "superstars" of the game.** Before I go any further, It's important to give you a littlebackground info. At the club I played in in Toronto, we had nobottled water, just purified water you could get from the gallon. SoI'd fill up a Styrofoam cup with water, and when it was empty, wouldleave it hanging from my lips so the porter wouldn't take it away andI'd have to waste another cup. This became somewhat of a habit youcould say.**So here I am in this tournament, where across from me was this womanand another well known tournament player. This woman doesn't know mefrom Adam, but goes out of her way to ridicule and make me feel likean outsider. As though I didn't belong in her "clique". Afterwitnessing her behavior I was pretty sure I didn't want any part ofthat "clique" anyway.KNOWING I could hear every word she was saying, she says to her"clique" member, "Oh my God, what's up with cup boy over there. Iwonder what that cup's all about. You think it's for medicalreasons." She then went on to giggle arrogantly. At this point Iactually spoke up and said, "If you'd really like to know there isactually a pretty normal reason for it?" Apparently acknowledging myexistence may have looked less "too cool to talk to the low limitplayers" if you know what I mean.In conclusion., with two odd tables to go I play a hand against herin which SHE WINS. I had a good amount of chips at this point and shewas all in for less than a bet on the river. I had actually bet theturn with a draw, and checked the river when I made a pair. The boardwas (10-8-2) A- J. I held Q-J in the blind and called her raise frommiddle position. I checked and called the flop, and bet the ace onthe turn hoping to steal it. On the river I made jacks, but didn'tthink she would call me with a worse hand but may check a better handor even bluff. That's not important though.What is important, is that she berated me for playing the hand thatway! "Oh my God, if you were going to call on the river anyway whydidn't you just bet?? I mean, oh you know what forget about it. Ishouldn‘t be educating."I was beyond puzzled, but to be completely honest slightlyembarrassed. I was there alone and knew no one in the tournamentwhatsoever. At the time I wasn't certain if I actually made ahorrendous error or not. I may have spoken 20 words the entiretournament, and couldn't fathom why someone would want to be so meanto a complete stranger?Anyway, I later thought about the hand and realized that she wasabsolutely WRONG about the correct strategy in that situation. Considering the information I had, I played the river just fine.Couple years go by, I get lucky and win a few tournaments… and allof a sudden she is all nice to me. Phony nice of course, but nicenonetheless. The more I got to know this woman however, the more Iwas witness to her true colors and the more I disliked her. Despitemaking my BEST efforts to tolerate her obnoxious personality I nolonger wanted to put up with it.The only thing I'm sorry about in all this, is what it has done tomany of my friends who happen to have thicker skin than I and cantolerate Annie. It puts them in a peculiar position. That I regret. Other than that, NOTHING I've ever said to her, or about her issomething I'd ever consider apologizing for. Those are my truefeelings… and I sleep well..You see, I don't NEED to be Mr. Phony Nice Guy, all I gots to be iswho I is. I ain't gonna say what y'all want me to say, I'm onnasay wazz on my minds when I feels like it. Na' I mean? Damnstraight.

[Absolute 0]

Daniel Negreanu Jun 4 2000, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: rec.gambling.poker From: Daniel Negreanu <cheapth...@my-deja.com> - Find messages by this author Date: 2000/06/04 Subject: Re: Sklansky, Caro, and Malmuth Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse In article <20000603054125.21050.00001...@ng-bh1.aol.com>,dsklan...@aol.com (Dsklansky) wrote:> Assuming a full ring game, I rate myself in the top ten in hi losplit; the top> 20 in limit holdem, omaha, lowball, razz and draw; the top 30 in potlimit> Omaha seven card stud, and No Limit Holdem: and consider myselfrelatively> weak only in pot limit holdem. In a decathalon of ring game events, Iam no> worse than 5 and probably first or second. Oh boy. David, I like you a lot and have come to your defence onmany occasions, but ths time you are wrong. Top ten in hi-lo split?Well, let's start with this short list of players that ARE better thanyou:1.Annie Duke2.John Hennigan3.Howard Lederer4.Jennifer Harman5.Chau Xiang6.Ted Forrest7."Miami" John Cernutto8.Huck Seed9."Magic" Epstein10.Tommy HufnagleNow that list was just off the top of my head, and in no particularorder. Now, top 20 in limit hold'em?? Here is another list for you:1.Annie Duke2.John Hennigan3.Howard Lederer4.Jennifer Harman5.Ted Forrest6.Mickey Coleman7.David Chui8.Lee Salem9.David Oppenheimer10.Jimmy Jimmy11.Tony Dee12.KMS(from commerce)13.Shun Ojida14.Tom Hood15.Chip Reese16.Doyle Brunson17.Erik Seidel18.Fred Bonyadi19.Ray Decaradani20.Richard DunbergAgain, that was just off the top of my head and in no particularorder. Next we has loball, razz, draw and 7 stud top 30? Well, I'llhave to give you those three. Yet, I've caught you again, top 30 in NoLimit Hold'em??1.T.J. Cloutier2.Phil Hellmuth3.Huck Seed4.Johhny Chan5.Bobby Hoff6.Annie Duke7.Randy Holland8.Allen Cunningham9.Layne Flack10.Steve Rydel11.Surindar Sunar12."Devilfish" Ulliot13.John Bonetti14.Tony Ma15.Erik Seidel16.Kathy Leibert17.Carl McKelvy18.Billy Duarte19.Mike Carson20.Bill O'Conner21.Mike Sexton22.David Chui23.Tony Dee24.Mike Magee25.Berry Johnston26.Young Phan27.O'Neil Longston28.Chris Bigler29.Doyle Brunson30.Herschel ZeluskiLastly, you said top 5 in a decathalon of ring games, we'll how aboutthis game:1.Ted Forrest2.Annie Duke3.Chau Xiang4.Chip Reese5.Doyle BrunsonNo offense, but you wouldn't have much chance doing better than thoseplayers in any 8-handed ring game. Setting the record straight, DanielNegreanuSent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/Before you buy

[Guest]

I do remember in this years WSOP her getting in a argument with one of those "crew members." So a lot of what I read does seem very true to her personality......I must say ficticious or not I agree with everything daniel said in his old posts...

[PIMP Hand 0]

This is all water under the bridge at this point. I hear they've patched things up to the degree that at least they can be in the same company. Annie is a complete fake and a fraud. She never belonged at the table for Tournament of Champions. She's not even in the top 10 of women poker players in my opinion.

[CodyHartman 0]

This is all water under the bridge at this point.  I hear they've patched things up to the degree that at least they can be in the same company.  Annie is a complete fake and a fraud.  She never belonged at the table for Tournament of Champions.  She's not even in the top 10 of women poker players in my opinion.

She may not be in your top 10 but Daniel thinks highly of her in his lists.I dare you to name 10 women better in NL HE then Annie.I'll start it for ya: Harman, maybe Leibert, and then OH WAIT THERE are no more. LOL :? :?

[CodyHartman 0]

This is all water under the bridge at this point.  I hear they've patched things up to the degree that at least they can be in the same company.  Annie is a complete fake and a fraud.  She never belonged at the table for Tournament of Champions.  She's not even in the top 10 of women poker players in my opinion.

She may not be in your top 10 but Daniel thinks highly of her in his lists.I dare you to name 10 women better in NL HE then Annie.I'll start it for ya: Harman, maybe Leibert, and then OH WAIT THERE are no more. LOL :? :?

[dna4ever 2]

I'll start it for ya: Harman, maybe Leibert, and then OH WAIT THERE are no more. LOL :?  :?

Evelyn Ng, Cyndy Violette, and Barbara Enright come to mind as well. I'm sure theres more

[fluxer 0]

You guys analyze way too much. It's really not a big deal.

[mk 11]

Found this one on the rgp forum. Might be the most recent comments from Daniel.Daniel Negreanu Oct 28 2004, 7:25 pm show options Newsgroups: rec.gambling.poker From: "Daniel Negreanu" <anonym...@hotmail.com> - Find messages by this author Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:25:45 GMT Local: Thurs, Oct 28 2004 7:25 pm Subject: Re: Daniel Negreanu's Posts over the past two + years Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse On Oct 28 2004 2:46PM, Jenna Tellya wrote:I am certain he wishes it was possible to erase> the past and have those posts deleted. We should all be able to move on. Not exactly. I truly live with no regrets. I don't condone everythingI've said and done in my past but I wouldn't want to change one thingabout my past because I believe that it's helped me become the person I amnow. Now, I've never been happier and I know that all the mistakes I'vemade have led me to this point. I've learned a lot from my mistakes inseveral facets of my life.So looking back I'd say that I'm embarrassed about some of the things Idid, but I wouldn't go as far as regret.Take care,Daniel Negreanuwww.fullcontactpoker.comwww.pokermontain.com

[card79 0]

Sounds like a great thought to end it on. To be honest my gut tells me neither one of them is completely clean in the situation. I am sure they both made mistakes and things got blown up and spiraled out of control. I can tell you there are things that are annoying that if it is somebody I like does them I can over look them, but if it is somebody I don't care for it is 1,000,000 times worse. It is perspective. We live and learn. Stop looking behind you to beat on the past or you will end up running into the brick wall in front of you.P.S. If those posts are really from Daniel I got say the little guy is tougher than I gave him credit for.

[workz 0]

First of all, I hope no one is surprised by any of these past actions. I mean just because people are famous now doesn't mean they are perfect. I mean every person has people that are just "annoyed" by and no matter what, they will always feel the same about them. Now the people we are talking about are professional gamblers who will obviously have situations as any of us. Reading daniel's old post about the reasons why he dislikes her, I could totally see that from what I've seen of Annie. Every time i see her on tv, she acts like she should be awarded something special, even when she says i'm too good be playing in an all girl tournament. Well Annie, yeah you're just as good as guys, but why not play in a girl tournament, i mean you're a girl rite? Anyone also notice when she's on tv, such as the Wsop of Champions, she says so many annoying comments. Like everytime Howard does something, "oh Bub's the greatest, Bub does this, Bub does that" etc. I dunno she still seems to act like a little sister that is 12 years old at the table.. Anyways just my two cents... Daniel you're still the man! =D

[Guest]

this post reminds me of a bad episode of jerry springer or ET.

[KramitDaToad 0]

I'll start it for ya: Harman, maybe Leibert, and then OH WAIT THERE are no more. LOL :?  :?

Evelyn Ng, Cyndy Violette, and Barbara Enright come to mind as well. I'm sure theres more

Yeah good call...2004 winningsNg: $17,020, highest finish in any significant tournament... 6thViolette: $143,980, highest finish in any significant tournament... 1st (once)Enright: $26,519, highest finish in any significant tournament... 6thDuke: $2,482,458 highest finish in any significant tournament... 1st (three)She may be a complete 4-letter-word (and a few 5 letter ones as well) but Annie is leagues ahead of those three as far as poker skills go.

[jayistheman 0]

i know at least one of those tournaments wasnt NLHE... but i agree.... she does appear to have better results, and i gotta represent university city students, so shes alright i guess.

[mbreon 0]

What difference does it really make if Daniel doesn't like Annie Duke , or vice versa, or any other poker player for that matter? Just because they all have the same occupation doesn't mean they have to love each other. Look at any other major sport, you think you're going to see Ron Artest and Ben Wallace holding hands anytime soon? Just seems like a pretty irrevelant topic to me....Bottom line, it's not how much you love or hate them, it's how much money you can extract from them on the table.

[MaxStrick 0]

This is all water under the bridge at this point. I hear they've patched things up to the degree that at least they can be in the same company. Annie is a complete fake and a fraud. She never belonged at the table for Tournament of Champions. She's not even in the top 10 of women poker players in my opinion.

She may not be in your top 10 but Daniel thinks highly of her in his lists.I dare you to name 10 women better in NL HE then Annie.I'll start it for ya: Harman, maybe Leibert, and then OH WAIT THERE are no more. LOL :? :?

I don't know about ten women, but I think that Shirley Rosario from www.poker-babes.com is better than Annie.

[iveyfan30 0]

This is all water under the bridge at this point. I hear they've patched things up to the degree that at least they can be in the same company. Annie is a complete fake and a fraud. She never belonged at the table for Tournament of Champions. She's not even in the top 10 of women poker players in my opinion.

She may not be in your top 10 but Daniel thinks highly of her in his lists.I dare you to name 10 women better in NL HE then Annie.I'll start it for ya: Harman, maybe Leibert, and then OH WAIT THERE are no more. LOL :? :?

I don't know about ten women, but I think that Shirley Rosario from www.poker-babes.com is better than Annie.

shes defenitley hotter than annie but not a better poker player....annie has a braclet..i hate her guts, but that braclet speaks for itself, not to mention the toc win as well...like i said before i dont like her, but you have to give her the credit she deserves

[Smasharoo 0]

This is such stunningly old news.Daniel's not a saint, he said some things he regrets. Annie's not a shy retiring violet, she'll get in your face in a heartbeat.Who cares?

[2AceSuited 0]

Heh, yeah. This is like watching reality TV and then fighting with people about the stuff that goes on in the show.

[The Insider 0]

They were both the consumate professionals while filming 'Poker Corner'. That says enough for me for both of 'em.

[Guest XXEddie]

First of all, I hope no one is surprised by any of these past actions. I mean just because people are famous now doesn't mean they are perfect. I mean every person has people that are just "annoyed" by and no matter what, they will always feel the same about them. Now the people we are talking about are professional gamblers who will obviously have situations as any of us. Reading daniel's old post about the reasons why he dislikes her, I could totally see that from what I've seen of Annie. Every time i see her on tv, she acts like she should be awarded something special, even when she says i'm too good be playing in an all girl tournament. Well Annie, yeah you're just as good as guys, but why not play in a girl tournament, i mean you're a girl rite? Anyone also notice when she's on tv, such as the Wsop of Champions, she says so many annoying comments. Like everytime Howard does something, "oh Bub's the greatest, Bub does this, Bub does that" etc. I dunno she still seems to act like a little sister that is 12 years old at the table.. Anyways just my two cents... Daniel you're still the man! =D

She says that stuff about Howard because he's her brother and she's trying to support him. That letter makes since a little bit of since because Howard once said; "Anytime Daniel is at the table, its a little sweeter to get a win"