how i missed my piece of chris ferguson

[braminc 0]

i was playing in the same tournament as YEffy last night, we were on the same table for a little while. the last 7 or 8 multi tables that ive done well in ive busted out when we are down to 2 tables. this is getting really annoying. ive made 4 final tables in my life and won all four tournaments so ive tasted victory, but its been SSOOOOOOOO long.so moving on here, i wanted to describe the hand i was crippled on and see if you guys think it was worth it or not. heres what went downi have T7off in the cutoff, i open raise about 3x the BB (blinds are very high, there are only 13 players left, everyone is playing pretty tight to make the final table, and everyone is stealing lots of blinds)2 behind me foldbb calls pot is now somewhere around 27,000flop comes: Ts 8c 5cbb thinks for a while then pushes all in for another 40,000 chips. i have essentially the same amount of chips as him. immediately when players do this, i assume they are weak, because obviously he is trying to push me out of the pot NOW and that means hes not too confident in his hand.i call the bet knowing that my top pair is likely to be ahead. he turns over a J5 of hearts.turn comes j, river comes blank, and im crippled and all but donenow this is not meant to be a bad beat story, im still just setting up my question. i did the math in my head and then on cardplayer and found that i was a 79% favorite when we got all the money inHOWEVER, in a tournament situation this close to the final table where the money is huge AND you can win 1% of Ferguson just for making the final table, its not smart to get in big battles like this that are unnecessary. i didnt know for sure that i was such a huge favorite when i called (although i felt it a bit), so im wondering if this is a bad call on my part to begin with, even if i KNOW he has a worse hand.my dad has been trying to convince me of this all day now and i need some more opinions. to a certain extent i agree with playing tighter and letting other people knock each other out, but i also cant stand to watch my stack shrink and shrink when i know others are stealing my chips with relatively weak hands. so i try to find a balance of staying the hell out of huge pots and also takin my chance when i get a good one like thisso 2 hands later im out of the tournament in 12th place, only 550 dollars (i know thats pretty good too, but nothing in comparison to the money that was sitting on the final table)im questioning my strategy because this is 8 in a row tourneys where i get to the final 18, 20 and dont make the final tablehowever, when i have made the final table ive gotten first all 4 times, which i think is because my risky play can build me enough chips to dominate the final table if/when i get therebut in this tourney i really just wanted to make the final table for that percentage of jesus, cause its just so exciting, anyways im sorry for how long this is, and im still sure i left something out that i meant to say, but please give me some input, because im really lacking confidence in my multi table strategyshould i have just not even tried to steal the blinds with T7?? or should i have just folded to his allin bet even though i thought/knew i was ahead, beacuse risking all your chips is ALWAYS a bad idea?? im not sure anymore-samer

[compuease 0]

For what it's worth I think you made the right call... I would have done the same...

[braminc 0]

i guess my main question is, when it gets down to 2 tables, is it stupid to risk all your chips at any point?? esp if i think i can blind my way into the final table? (although i would hate to get to the final table and be first one out)OH I ALMOST FORGOT for your info, an old FCP poster was there as well, although he is no longer with us, do you guys remember someone named Splashmaster? he ended up in 9th place. 975 bucks + 1% of jesus

[grass Da 55 0]

should i have just not even tried to steal the blinds with T7??

from the cutoff seat, no.

[funplyr9 0]

i think the call was right. it is his call preflopl that is wrong. but the first raise preflop ? i dunno. im not a great player but I would try to steal with a stronger hand, not much stronger , but stronger.

[trippkc 0]

If you are playing to win and you feel you have a good read on him, then you have to make that call. If you think your top pair is good then he is drawing to 5 outs or 6 (if he had 2 overs). It's a tough suckout, but I think if you fold and continued to get blinded away, you would be having more regrets about folding...at least you went out fighting.

[braminc 0]

i think the call was right. it is his call preflopl that is wrong. but the first raise preflop ? i dunno. im not a great player but I would try to steal with a stronger hand, not much stronger , but stronger.

i hear ya, but being that we were down to 13 players, my table was now only 6 handed, with big blinds and antes, in a full tenhanded game, i would almost never steal with a hand this weak...(sorry i appreciate the advice, not trying to be defensive, just explain myself further)

[zimmer4141 0]

I think you played this whole hand correctly. At that point in the tournament, you can double up by stealing blinds. You have to be willing to go with your gut and make the right call. You made the right call, and got outdrawn on. If you can't make marginal calls then you will never win a tournament. You made the right play, and it sucks that you lost. Better luck next time.

[dms26 3]

i think the call was right. it is his call preflopl that is wrong. but the first raise preflop ? i dunno. im not a great player but I would try to steal with a stronger hand, not much stronger , but stronger.

if you have a good hand it's not a steal. Stealing from the cutoff is usually less suspicious than the button. I don't mind the play at all.

[LAPoker 0]

What I think is hilarious is that you write: "i assume they are weak", I guess 10 7 is a strong hand here. I always love watching guys like you go bust trying to steal blinds. Here is a thought, since everyone on the internet ALWAYS calls, what are you doing trying to steal the blinds. When I see someone raise from the cutoff I pretty much treat it as any random hand, unless there table image tells me differently.

[TheIceman05 0]

What I think is hilarious is that you write: "i assume they are weak", I guess 10 7 is a strong hand here. I always love watching guys like you go bust trying to steal blinds. Here is a thought, since everyone on the internet ALWAYS calls, what are you doing trying to steal the blinds. When I see someone raise from the cutoff I pretty much treat it as any random hand, unless there table image tells me differently.

Don't listen to this jackass.I like the way you played the hand, beginning to end.Ice

[braminc 0]

What I think is hilarious is that you write: "i assume they are weak", I guess 10 7 is a strong hand here. I always love watching guys like you go bust trying to steal blinds. Here is a thought, since everyone on the internet ALWAYS calls, what are you doing trying to steal the blinds. When I see someone raise from the cutoff I pretty much treat it as any random hand, unless there table image tells me differently.

i "assume" they are weak because i dont truly "know" what two cards he has yet. i cannot tell you how many times i see online players make huge overbet allin moves with weak hands. they dont want to get called, they want to win the pot now, but they have a little tiny something to fall back on, or the just overvalued their hand to begin with.i assume because i dont know, and i had been watching this guy for a while, he was lucky to still be in the tourney at all. i turned out to have read him right, first he calls my 4x bb raise with j5s, then he goes allin with bottom pair. i dont see why me assuming he was weak is so "hilarious" if he is a loose, bad player who is making what i think is a standard loose bad online play that i see a whole lot. at the same time, i respect your opinion and appreciate your input, my purpose with this thread isnt to defend myself (guess im a hypcrite now, lol) but i dont feel like on the internet everyone ALWAYS calls when youre down to 13 players in a 500 person multitable and there is 50k prize pool at stake.

[LAPoker 0]

i "assume" they are weak because i dont truly "know" what two cards he has yet. i cannot tell you how many times i see online players make huge overbet allin moves with weak hands. they dont want to get called, they want to win the pot now, but they have a little tiny something to fall back on, or the just overvalued their hand to begin with.i assume because i dont know, and i had been watching this guy for a while, he was lucky to still be in the tourney at all. i turned out to have read him right, first he calls my 4x bb raise with j5s, then he goes allin with bottom pair. i dont see why me assuming he was weak is so "hilarious" if he is a loose, bad player who is making what i think is a standard loose bad online play that i see a whole lot. at the same time, i respect your opinion and appreciate your input, my purpose with this thread isnt to defend myself (guess im a hypcrite now, lol) but i dont feel like on the internet everyone ALWAYS calls when youre down to 13 players in a 500 person multitable and there is 50k prize pool at stake.

The problem is they do call a high percentage of the time, on the other hand, this is why you have been able to build up such a big stack in other tourneys. When you do hit your in great position to win the tournement. In my opinion though if you are going to raise you should have some sort of a hand to go on A rag, KQ, PP, etc. Don't get yourself blinded off, but don't be unnecesarily reckless either. I don't mind the call post flop (obviously it is the right call), but you really should not have been in this situation in the first place.The other thing is that you should not give people the idea that you are just going to fold every blind. Sometimes if I get the opportunity I will defend my blind when I see a short stack push, if it is not enough to hurt me. Often short stacks will be pushing with A4, etc, so you won't be that big of an underdog anyway, and that way everyone at the table sees, this guy is not the guy to be trying to steal from.

[Guest]

You had danny's hand, you HAD to call.lol...but seriously, i think you played the hand well. It was late in the tournament but you've got to make a move sometime and you were a big favorite.

[braminc 0]

good point! 8)

[Bijjy 0]

Your played the hand correctly, and then very incorrectly. If you wanted to WIN and get the 12.5k + 10% of chris you played just as you should have. If you were more concerned with placing higher, having a better chance at finishing with a lil extra cash and 1% of jesus u played it incorrectly. Just depends on what you wanted.

[DefecatingDeer 0]

I like the play. The steal from the CO is nice (open-folding always makes me feel dirty), you got your money in as a big favorite, and you just got unlucky. I think you made the right play from start to finish and you were playing to win. As people tightened up, you got tricky, but all you can do is make the correct plays regardless of the eventual outcomes. Good stuff.

[feedmykids 0]

You have to play to win the tournament, not to move up. The big money is in winning, not in squeaking into the final table and then being so shortstacked that you end up 9th.

[wolfpacker 0]

- Here's my two cents . . . - Alot of this play depends on your table image to begin with, if you've been stealing blinds a lot, and not having to show people will assume you're overly aggressive, but if you've been raising pots then calling reraises all in, or showing good hands they will have to respect your raise. (Granted you cannot count on online plaers paying attention) - I'm gonna go against the grain and say it was the wrong play, in a normal tourney I would make this play 10/10, but in a tourney where you obviously cared about getting a piece of Chris so badly I'm going to say it was ill-advised to put all your chips at risk when you can get blinded off and still make the final table. - Basically what I'm saying is you should've viewed this tournament kind of like a satellite where the top 9 all get the same prize, obviously first got 10% and the payouts 1st - 9th were different, but if you cared so much about getting a piece of Chris that's what you should have done. - If you're playing to win, the play was fine, if you're playing for 9th (which it appears to me you were) I'm gonna say the play was wrong.

[tab 0]

First, I'd like to say that I agree with others when they say that your play was correct if your aim was to win the tournament but incorrect if you wanted to make the final table and place as highly as possible. But I think you made that decision before the flop rather than when you called his 40,000. If your raise had been smaller, you would have left yourself the possibility to think that your hand was probably good but that it wasn't worth the risk at that point in the tournament. I know you were trying to steal, but it's still important to realize that trying to steal means you'll be involved in a lot more pots where you'll have to make tough decisions. If you're trying to play it safe, you probably want to avoid those decisions. In tournaments it's always important to know before each hand whether you want to play aggressively to move up in chips or conservatively to move up as people bust out. Once you've made that decision, all your raises, calls and folds are partly determined by that decision.Second, I think your read was missing a major class of hands your opponent could have had and reasonably moved all-in with. If your opponent flopped a flush draw or an open-ended straight draw (J-9, 9-7, 7-6...all hands he might call your pre-flop raise with from the BB), pushing all-in isn't a bad percentage play for him. A lot of the time, you'll fold having missed the flop entirely. If you do call, the flush or straight's probably good if he hits it and he'll hit both those draws (very) roughly 30% of the time. He'd obviously want you to fold, but he'd still be getting close to the right pot odds if you did call. Of course, he could have both draws and then you're a dog in the hand. So it's not just weak hands that would want the hand to end immediately, legitimate drawing hands would too.Anyhoo, just felt I'd share those two observations. It always sucks to go out or get crippled on a hand like this, but when you play aggressively, this kind of stuff happens.

[Bijjy 0]

Yeffy won that tourny,