speedz99 145 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Phew, good thing you were done with this topic 10 times or so.Caling's still better.i was done talkin to you about it 10 times agobut you are quite persistentI have nothing to do with this thread and have no business arguing strategy with either of you. That said, I bet I can still compete with you in the race for getting in the last word.Ready...go! Link to post Share on other sites
Absolute 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Phew, good thing you were done with this topic 10 times or so.Caling's still better.i was done talkin to you about it 10 times agobut you are quite persistentI have nothing to do with this thread and have no business arguing strategy with either of you. That said, I bet I can still compete with you in the race for getting in the last word.Ready...go!you winraise the river Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Phew, good thing you were done with this topic 10 times or so.Caling's still better.Calling sucks. Link to post Share on other sites
Rocketwadster 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Calling sucks.Beat's folding though IMO :wink: Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 ok, ass!raising > calling > foldingand it's not even close. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not? Link to post Share on other sites
PrtyPSux 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?aaaaand,,,here goes another four page arguement that will...once again...leave us lesser experienced limit players wondering "so what are we supposed to do again"...go at it boys.. Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?No. After being 3-bet our hand is far less likely to be ahead.Do "fish" bet draws? Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?No. After being 3-bet our hand is far less likely to be ahead.Do "fish" bet draws?The "fish" in this hand bet Q5 off on the turn and the river. Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 dont be results oriented. Link to post Share on other sites
Absolute 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?No. After being 3-bet our hand is far less likely to be ahead.Do "fish" bet draws?The "fish" in this hand bet Q5 off on the turn and the river.4 pages and were still using results based thinking. Link to post Share on other sites
Absolute 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?No, that is when calling would be correct.I am curious as to the point you are tryin to make with this question. Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 dont be results oriented.Sorry. Didn't realize that your question was purely rhetorical.If we're arguing the "fish" designation, well, that was several pages ago. Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?No, that is when calling would be correct.I am curious as to the point you are tryin to make with this question.The point is very obvious.Really. Link to post Share on other sites
Absolute 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?No, that is when calling would be correct.I am curious as to the point you are tryin to make with this question.The point is very obvious.Really.OK so tell me. Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?No, that is when calling would be correct.I am curious as to the point you are tryin to make with this question.The point is very obvious.Really.OK so tell me.If your hand is good enough to raise this board heads up, why isn't it good enough to cap? Link to post Share on other sites
Absolute 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?No, that is when calling would be correct.I am curious as to the point you are tryin to make with this question.The point is very obvious.Really.OK so tell me.If your hand is good enough to raise this board heads up, why isn't it good enough to cap?:)I was hoping you would ask that.No further comments. Link to post Share on other sites
Absolute 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 There is a difference between two-betting and four-betting, a pretty significant difference.This is MY understanding of what Smash is suggesting, but you seem to think it is fairly obvious what he really meant.Smash is certainly aware that you cannot cap every hand you raise with heads up. I believe the point he was trying to make is that he believes those who support the raise are being TOO aggressive, and that we would probably cap a 3bet. He is asking if we would cap to further illustrate his point that calling the initial bet is best.I don't think he was implying that those who argue for a raise would have to cap. That would be ridiculous.But again, you seem to understand this better than I. Link to post Share on other sites
JaysonWeber 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?No, that is when calling would be correct.I am curious as to the point you are tryin to make with this question.The point is very obvious.Really.OK so tell me.If your hand is good enough to raise this board heads up, why isn't it good enough to cap?:)I was hoping you would ask that.No further comments.I hope these last 2 comments are a joke..Unless I'm reading this wrong someone thinks that Capping and 2 betting are nearly identical? Link to post Share on other sites
Absolute 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 If you raise do you cap a three-bet?If not, why not?No, that is when calling would be correct.I am curious as to the point you are tryin to make with this question.The point is very obvious.Really.OK so tell me.If your hand is good enough to raise this board heads up, why isn't it good enough to cap?:)I was hoping you would ask that.No further comments.I hope these last 2 comments are a joke..Unless I'm reading this wrong someone thinks that Capping and 2 betting are nearly identical?hence my "no further comments" jokeits an easy raise and an easy call on the 3betit baffles me that anyone would ask "why not cap if you raise?" Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 I hope these last 2 comments are a joke..Unless I'm reading this wrong someone thinks that Capping and 2 betting are nearly identical?Getting warmer guys.Smash's point (I think) was that it might be better to just call one bet in a case where you probably are ahead instead of calling a three bet when you KNOW you're beat.It seems that some of you need to be bet at a third time before you believe the Villain might have you bet. If I read the question correctly, Smash is wondering why you start thinking you might be beat after the third act of aggression on the big streets instead of on the second act of aggression.Long story short, those who advocate raising the flop seem to think that we should only take villain's three bet seriously when the third flush card hits. Villain's lead bet is just a jopke. Link to post Share on other sites
Absolute 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 I hope these last 2 comments are a joke..Unless I'm reading this wrong someone thinks that Capping and 2 betting are nearly identical?Getting warmer guys.Smash's point was that it might be better to just call one bet in a case where you might be beat instead of calling a three bet when you KNOW you're beat.downsidewe all understand thatyou arent playing the part of the magician who unveiled the big secretand the conflicting opinion is.... that's weak tightyou can always save a bet when you don't have the nuts because someone else MIGHT.you have stated that you have read SSHE. the goal is to get maximum expectation. you dont do this by saving bets out of fear. Link to post Share on other sites
JaysonWeber 0 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Saving river bets against fish = -EV.I used to be really weak/tight on the river, my aggression was identical to the turn on the river.. thats not good.It's hands like these that I used to check on and now bet on... and my bb/100 has gone up since... other than the last 2 weeks... .2bb/100 now! Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 you have stated that you have read SSHE. the goal is to get maximum expectation. you dont do this by saving bets out of fear.I just call when the value of the downside risk (losing two bets) is equal to the value of upside gain (gaining one bet from a call of my raise). That's expected value play at its most basic, no?Many moons ago, I asked you to name 8-10 other hands besides the two pair hands that would call us here (we tie one of these hands and beat 9). Since you concluded there were 8-10 hands that realistically beat us here, I need one of two things to make raising 0 EV instead of negative EV:1. I need the opponent to hold exactly two pair twice as often as he holds a set, a straight, or a flush.2. I need an opponent that will still call my raise after bluffing with one of 8-10 hands worse than two pair. You've got to go lower than A2 to fill this list out. Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Saving river bets against fish = -EV.I used to be really weak/tight on the river, my aggression was identical to the turn on the river.. thats not good.It's hands like these that I used to check on and now bet on... and my bb/100 has gone up since... other than the last 2 weeks... .2bb/100 now!Raising in this wa/wb scenario might also be -EV. We need an opponent to have a hand good enough to call us twice as often as he has a hand that crushes us to make this raise +EV. Either that, or we need a maniac/fish that will call a river raise with ANYTHING.Disrespecting your opponents is a great way to spew chips on the river, especially when their prime draw for the hand comes in on the river. Link to post Share on other sites
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