2012 Nhl Labour Troubles Thread

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I think there will be a season. The fact that neither side has come down since Sept 15 doesnt suprise me, both are posturing.

 

I get that the players lose a lot, but I also think the owners lose a lot too.

 

I still see a deal happening, sooner rather than later. If things still look like this in December, then I'm more worried.

 

Note: I may be insanely naive

[serge 904]

I think there will be a season. The fact that neither side has come down since Sept 15 doesnt suprise me, both are posturing.

 

I get that the players lose a lot, but I also think the owners lose a lot too.

 

I still see a deal happening, sooner rather than later. If things still look like this in December, then I'm more worried.

 

Note: I may be insanely naive

 

If you believe some reports, majority of the owners will actually be saving money by not having a season. If 15-20 teams are losing money as some claim, then where is the loss.

[iBeaver 409]

I will be generalizing a bit here because I don't have all the concrete numbers in Bartch or anyone like him but I just always have an issue when players complain about not being able to care for their families during these events. NBA players did the same. I think I can safely assume that Kris has made more in his 5 yrs than my wife and I have made in the 10 years we have been married. What are you doing with your mOney that missing tops one season is going to do to you? It's not like the league will shut down forever. He complains about owners owning 5 houses. I highly doubt Kris is living in squalor as he sort of makes it sound. I don't care of you make $1.5 mil a year or $60k you need to live within your means and I think some of these guys make poor decisions with their money then complain that they don't know what they'll do during a lockout. I am rambling and dealing with Jin while I try to Type this all out and I am sure I have lost my initial point but oh well.

 

He has every right to care about his jOb and such but it's hard to feel sorry for him. At least for me. I remember a few NBA players posting similar things and they make way more than players like Kris. Well map time. I will shut up now.

[FCP Bob 1,311]

I think that's what part of what the owner's are counting on is players who don't budget well and spend everything that comes in. We have to remember that no player has missed a pay cheque yet and until that starts to happen they don't feel any financial pain.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I would like to know the details, but i just can't be bothered to learn them...so I may be totally wrong, but...

 

I'm having difficulty with owners who sign players to contracts and then complain the players are making too much.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

it always pisses me off that the owners themselves get away scot free in all this.

 

Most of us, hockey nerds that we are, can name dozens, maybe hundreds of hockey players, but Ill bet none of us knows the names of a majority of the NHL owners. I can name for you the starting gtd on every team......but I have no idea who signs most of that guys cheques, to use an old saying.

[Zach6668 513]

Off the top of my head:

 

Ana - Samuelli?

Bos - Jacobs

Buf - Pegula

Cgy -

Car - Karmanos

Chi - Wirtz

Col -

Clb -

Dal - blah, should know this one, in the news recently

Det - Ilitch

Edm - Katz

Fla - Yonkman

LAK - AEG sports group I think?

Min - Leopold

Mon - Molson

Nas -

NJD - vanderbeek

NYI - Wang

NYR - Dolan (MSG)

Ott -

Phi - Ed Snider

Phx - Bettman

Pit - Burkle/Lemieux

SJS -

Stl - should know this one too, just in the news as well

TBL - Vinik

Tor - Bell/Rogers

Van - OrcaBay Sports

Was - Leonsis

Wpg - should really know this one too, again, all over the news

[Zach6668 513]

Actual:

 

 

 

Ana - Henry and Susan Samueli

Bos - Jeremy Jacobs

Buf - Terry Pegula

Cgy - Calgary Flames LP (N. Murray Edwards, chairman)

Car - Peter Karmanos

Chi - Wirtz Corporation (Rocky Wirtz, chairman)

Col - Kroenko Sports Enterprises (Stan Kroenke, chairman)

Clb - John P. McConnell

Dal - Tom Gaglardi

Det - Ilitch Holdings (Mike Ilitch, chariman)

Edm - Rexall Sports (Daryl Katz, chairman)

Fla - Sunrise Sports & Entertainment (Cliff Viner, chairman) [Yormark, not Yonkman, is the President of hockey ops]

LAK - Philip Anschutz and Edward P. Roski

Min - Minnesota Sports & Entertainment (Craig Leipold, chariman)

Mon - Molson family (Geoff Molson, chairman)

Nas - Predators HOldings LLC (Thomas Cigarran, chairman)

NJD - Jeffrey Vanderbeek

NYI - Charles Wang

NYR - Madison Square Garden, Inc. (James Dolan, chairman)

Ott - Eugene Melnyk

Phi - Comcast Spectacor (Ed Snider, chairman)

Phx - National Hockey League

Pit - Ron Burkle, Mario Lemieux

SJS - San Jose Sports & Entertainment Enterprises (Kevin Compton, governor)

Stl - SLB Acquisition Holdings LLC (Tom Stillman, chariman)

TBL - Tampa Bay Sports and Entertainment (Jeffrey Vinik, chairman)

Tor - Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd (Larry Tanenbaum, chairman) [guessing the Bell/Rogers sale isn't official yet]

Van - Canucks Sports & Entertainment (Fracesco Aquilini, chairman)

Was - Monumental Sports & Entertainment (Ted Leonsis, chairman)

Wpg - True North Sports & Entertainment (Mark Chipman, chairman)

 

 

[ajs510 122]

You did way better than I would have.

 

My standard line to anyone who wants to talk to me about the lockout is..."yes, Gary Bettman is a douche, but the owners voted for the lockout 30-0. Yes, even Pegula."

[serge 904]

I think that's what part of what the owner's are counting on is players who don't budget well and spend everything that comes in. We have to remember that no player has missed a pay cheque yet and until that starts to happen they don't feel any financial pain.

 

Oct 15 is the first scheduled cheque

[digitalmonkey 929]

Something I've often wondered...

 

If someone owns a certain % of one NHL franchise and a certain % of another NHL franchise, isn't that a conflict of interest?

[mrdannyg 274]

I will be generalizing a bit here because I don't have all the concrete numbers in Bartch or anyone like him but I just always have an issue when players complain about not being able to care for their families during these events. NBA players did the same. I think I can safely assume that Kris has made more in his 5 yrs than my wife and I have made in the 10 years we have been married. What are you doing with your mOney that missing tops one season is going to do to you? It's not like the league will shut down forever. He complains about owners owning 5 houses. I highly doubt Kris is living in squalor as he sort of makes it sound. I don't care of you make $1.5 mil a year or $60k you need to live within your means and I think some of these guys make poor decisions with their money then complain that they don't know what they'll do during a lockout. I am rambling and dealing with Jin while I try to Type this all out and I am sure I have lost my initial point but oh well.

 

He has every right to care about his jOb and such but it's hard to feel sorry for him. At least for me. I remember a few NBA players posting similar things and they make way more than players like Kris. Well map time. I will shut up now.

 

I agree with this. The guy is posting about injuries and employer restrictions and line workers and dealing with the future. He just signed a 2-year deal that will pay him more than a line worker will make in 40. Well, maybe a little less. But it's close! He's made more before age 30 than most people make in their lives. He's had injuries and other problems, but he could also retire at 30 with his wife and 3 young children. An opportunity most of us do not have.

 

Complain about ownership taking too big a share, complain about fat cats using money to pay for your blood, sweat and tears, whatever you want. But don't complain about not having enough dollars to take care of your family when you'll have been paid more than $5 million dollars before age 30.

[FCP Bob 1,311]

Something I've often wondered...

 

If someone owns a certain % of one NHL franchise and a certain % of another NHL franchise, isn't that a conflict of interest?

 

The level of ownership and influence in management will determine how much of a conflict it is.

 

Having a very small percentage but no seats on the board of a company isn't a big deal but if an owner had a large interest in more than one it would be. I'm pretty sure that the league has rules against that unlike the CFL where one owner has two teams.

[serge 904]

The level of ownership and influence in management will determine how much of a conflict it is.

 

Having a very small percentage but no seats on the board of a company isn't a big deal but if an owner had a large interest in more than one it would be. I'm pretty sure that the league has rules against that unlike the CFL where one owner has two teams.

 

On that point, isnt it a HUGE conflict of interest for the NHL to own a franchise?? Let alone a franchise in major trouble?

 

Isnt Gary Bettman's agenda to save Phoenix with the new CBA and he couldnt care less what happens in succesful hockey markets like Toronto,Montreal and New York amongst a handful of others?

 

While I am on my soapbox, why is it that the succesful franchises always get punished and the "loser" franchises get the benefits of new rules and handouts?

 

I have said bazillion times sport isnt just played on the field/ice/court..If you are succesful off the field you should reap the benefits on the field..If that means a 21 team league with 18 man rosters so be it.

[iBeaver 409]

It's millionaires and billionaires trying to get the most money from the other. It's ridiculous. I am almost to the point of just not caring about the NHL when they come back. The player whining and the owners greed just turns me off. I know it's a business and each party is trying to better themselves financially and it happens even between small bisiness' and their much lower paid employees but I don't have to read or listen to their whining about how the are going to put food on the table. But so wine who had making millions each year should have been smarter with their money of they are worried about missing a few paychecks.

 

What about all the lower level employees who what normal citizens make? Novo dy really talks about that. Or the businesses that will be losing money due to no games? Oh no. But poor players like Kris won't know how to take care of their family. (warning: outrageous assumption!!) well sell your multimillion dollar house and your card that probably cost over $100k and go get a nice house in NJ for much less and get some cheaper cars and deal with it. Xmas is coming go get a job at restoration hardware for the holidays if finances are that bad. ( I said I would be outrageous here)

 

It's dad to see this happen and I know when the season does begin the ticket prices will go up. At least here. I was doing the numbers today and I for the price of a wings ticket last year I could go to either 4 lions games in upper deck or 2 in lower, 5 tigers games in my fav RF seats, and if I felt really bored, 6 piston games.

 

I will also not be putting money in their coffers for the Winter Classic. I will buyno merchandise this year either. Luckily Jin already has a wings jersey. The whiny and the greed and the posturing just lessens my love for this league. I stuck with them after the last one but this one might be the last straw. At least till the wings get knocked out of the playoffs.

 

[serge 904]

Very well put Steve. I am afraid a lot of people feel the same way as you do..

 

However I dont think people will stay away in the places that get sold out. This will make the struggling franchises struggle even more, as they will lose fans.

 

As much as I am pissed off, I will still watch every game like nothing happened. I will go to about 15-20 games this year...

 

I am a sucker like most of us here...

 

I think the magnitude of this wont be noticed until they will be postponing/cancelling regular season games(this will happen any day)...Most non hockey fans dont even realize what is happening, but they will soon.

[ajs510 122]

I'm a total sucker. I'll bitch about no hockey until there's hockey, and then I'll watch hockey.

[iBeaver 409]

I am sure when push comes to shove I will watch. But I will not be buying tickets for quite some time and that includes the WC

[Zach6668 513]

It doesn't matter. It's still supply/demand no matter what. If a place that is historically hard to get tickets in have die hards leave the fanbase, they'll still sell out. If it's a medium place, new people will take the place of those soured by the lockout. As far as tickets aside, I doubt much will ever change. It's purely a S/D problem. One year isn't going to chance things.

[serge 904]

One year might not change things, but its more than that...Its two years in the last 8..Thats significant for a sport that is fighting for fans in the US.

 

Its a sad situation.

[doox 15]

THe thing I'm worried about is how different I feel about this work stoppage as opposed to the last one. This one leaves me disgusted with both the players and the owners, although I don't have the same sense of urgency for the season to get underway as I did during the last one. I don't know why that is, but the apathy I feel makes me wonder if others feel the same way, and if the league is shooting itself in the foot even more than they did last time, as far as fan support and public relations go.

[Fubar The Sperm 1]

THe thing I'm worried about is how different I feel about this work stoppage as opposed to the last one. This one leaves me disgusted with both the players and the owners, although I don't have the same sense of urgency for the season to get underway as I did during the last one. I don't know why that is, but the apathy I feel makes me wonder if others feel the same way, and if the league is shooting itself in the foot even more than they did last time, as far as fan support and public relations go.

I don't really care. I hope there is a long lockout and some of the teams have to fold or move. I'd really like to see the owners eat it this time around. In the mean time. Go Man Utd.

[InternetExplorer 2,609]

pretty much don't care about hockey anymore. was on a pretty steep downward interest trend these last few years anyway. I probably watched fewer than ten games last season, so the only difference to me is the lack of a stream of data making my team a winner or loser.

[mrdannyg 274]

pretty much don't care about hockey anymore. was on a pretty steep downward interest trend these last few years anyway. I probably watched fewer than ten games last season, so the only difference to me is the lack of a stream of data making my team a winner or loser.

 

QFT, except the part where "winner" was one of the options.

[ajs510 122]

I feel pretty much the same way, except on the "interest in hockey" point. I would love to see the owners take it right in the ass on this lockout and have the players stand pat and play in other leagues until they come crawling back. I'll get my hockey fix from the AHL and junior hockey, maybe even go support the RIT Tigers for a few games.

 

I'm just sick of the bullshit whining from rich people.