Sad Saga Of A Small Town

[speedz99 145]

punk kid

You're such an ******* for calling him that. He didn't try to make a show of it, he politely went to the principal and requested that the school honor the law. What happened after was because of punk christians.

[Spademan 94]

I didn't see anybody defending the school's response to the kid.There was a bunch of discussion on whether the planned short prayer (not the subsequent reactionary prayer) at the beginning was a "big deal."

Uhmm.

[hblask 1]

It's a lot different.Imagine applying this argument to any other government function. Imagine interstates with bible verses on the official road signs every half mile.Some people are bothered that even a penny of their money goes to religious interstates, but that's no different than making religious people pay for interstates that forbid religion.It's only because you suppose including religion in education is a normal thing to do that it doesn't alarm you when the state sponsors religion in this manner.

Good point. I think the difference is that a lot of people include religious education in their lives, even for themselves, so it's a natural fit for schools.

[hblask 1]

And lol @hblask for saying that only 1% of Christians are actually affected by anything the bible says and that it doesn't harm anyone.

99% of religious people are perfectly normal, and realize their religion is irrational but makes them feel good. These are people who are good, good people, and don't deserve to be lumped with Jihad Joe.

[hblask 1]

It isn't supposed to phase you, dumbass. If you actually "knew all the arguments" you'd have known that.I was going to address your points individually, but you've gone on and on and have been fractally wrong in this thread. BG-in-this-forum levels of wrong. Too time consuming to address everything you've said that is stupid, unsupported, fallacious, and incongruous with reality. "I know all the arguments". lol.Randy even mentioned a place where every single thing you've spouted in this thread is eviscerated for the nonsense it is. Go through the comment sections, wait for someone to spout the accommodationist bullshit you're putting out in this thread, and see how it is dismantled.Or don't and continue to pretend you know what the fuck you're talking about.

Derp derp I've never read anything before derp derp. Shame I'm so uneducated.

[Spademan 94]

Derp derp I've never read anything before derp derp. Shame I'm so uneducated.

You really must not come down here much if you think this straw man will do anything but be set on fire. However, you actually attempt to make your own straw man a reality with:

99% of religious people are perfectly normal, and realize their religion is irrational but makes them feel good. These are people who are good, good people, and don't deserve to be lumped with Jihad Joe.

This is... just... so stupid. On so many levels. Completely disregarding the fact that religious moderates provide a foundation and enabling support for their more extremist counterparts, including presidential candidates who are among the frontrunners who explicitly want a theocracy, including "jihadists" (nice scare word to use in your false dichotomy, btw), the anti-science bullshit... Putting all of that aside, your statement is, on its own, stupid.99% of people are not "good, good people". Christian, Buddhist, Satanists, Atheists, men, women... 99%...Rofl.Whence comes crime? Whence comes adultery. Whence comes scams, racists, misogynists, bigots, xenophobes, lairs, cheats, frauds and assholes? From that 1%? Seriously, if you're going to pop into this forum, don't posit blatantly fuckwitted arguments post after post. We've already got a BG.And finally: your straw man, while entertaining, has failed to conceal the fact you haven't read the links where the accommodationist nonsense you blabber on about in this thread is systematically obliterated.

[hblask 1]

And finally: your straw man, while entertaining, has failed to conceal the fact you haven't read the links where the accommodationist nonsense you blabber on about in this thread are systematically obliterated.

OK, one last thing, then I'm done with this thread and all religious arguments for a while. This thread is a perfect example of why I stay out of this forum, because people seem to go to extremes in religious arguments when there really is no reason to -- and both sides do it. So I do get all those points, and saw your "explanation for others", and I am sympathetic to all that. My only real point is that picking every battle is just tiring for no real gain. Go after the big injustices first. The big battles are far from won; telling suburbanites that their weekly hour of socializing and feel-good fiction is evil just makes those big battles harder.

[Spademan 94]

OK, one last thing, then I'm done with this thread and all religious arguments for a while. This thread is a perfect example of why I stay out of this forum, because people seem to go to extremes in religious arguments when there really is no reason to -- and both sides do it. So I do get all those points, and saw your "explanation for others", and I am sympathetic to all that. My only real point is that picking every battle is just tiring for no real gain. Go after the big injustices first. The big battles are far from won; telling suburbanites that their weekly hour of socializing and feel-good fiction is evil just makes those big battles harder.

Your concern is noted.

[brvheart 1,753]

You fucking idiot. Have you even read the links provided? Have you even fucking looked into it?This "punk kid" (fuck you, you piece of shit) was mocked, segregated, threatened and even kicked out of his families house - his shit thrown on the lawn - by the thugish, frothy-mouthed Christian-cult majority in his town. The fact that these motherfuckers flouted the law and asserted their bully belong-to-our-cult faith at the public school ceremonies is the least of it, asshole. Might as well shut your fucking mouth if you're just going to spout ignorant, dishonest bullshit.You're free to disregard that advice, however, because unlike a public school function you're free to drip whatever stupid shit from your mouth your little heart desires here.

Retard, I was obviously speaking as IF there was no complaint. The entire point of the thread is what has happened after he complained. It's you that needs to read better. Since the first page we've been discussing the merits of speaking up. I'm fine with him taking a stand. The school is in the wrong, but IF he hadn't said anything, then nothing happens. edit: He isn't segregated or harassed, and doesn't have to move. I'm pretty surprised that the entire point of my post went over your head.

[Spademan 94]

Retard, I was obviously speaking as IF there was no complaint. The entire point of the thread is what has happened after he complained. It's you that needs to read better. Since the first page we've been discussing the merits of speaking up. I'm fine with him taking a stand, the school is in the wrong, but IF he hadn't said anything, then nothing happens.

Go to bed. You've been nothing but an embarrassment to yourself in this thread.

[brvheart 1,753]

No, I read it and then was horrified. And your insistence on continuing to call the victim a punk for asserting his Constitutional rights is sad.

eyeroll. I'm calling him a punk for the same reason that Spade can't possibly create a post without a condensing personal insult: to get a reaction and push buttons. And, as usual, it worked perfectly, Punk.

It's irrelevant what is happening or if it's even legal? Just because they've been doing it a long time they should be allowed to continue doing it? You don't see what's wrong with that?

You aren't understanding what I'm talking about. I was saying that for my specific point it didn't matter. Not that it doesn't matter in reality. I really didn't think it was that confusing, but the lawyer and professor didn't get it, so I probably wasn't clear.

[brvheart 1,753]

Go to bed. You've been nothing but an embarrassment to yourself in this thread.

WINNER!

[brvheart 1,753]

You're such an ******* for calling him that. He didn't try to make a show of it, he politely went to the principal and requested that the school honor the law. What happened after was because of punk christians.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, that was directed at some specific people, and really had nothing to do with the kid. (also, I feel bad that you saw it, since I love you.) I've been saying since page 1 (<-- page 1, Spade) that the school is totally in the wrong, and I'm on the kid's side in this thing. I'm a Christian and praying doesn't sit right with me in a public forum. (mainly because I know that for the far majority of "christians" there, it's simply a tradition and they don't actually give a shit about Jesus. I hate hypocrisy.) As I also mentioned I think the pledge is creepy. Belief in a personal God is a personal thing and definitely shouldn't be endorsed by the school. However, I also think if the speaker wants to pray during her speech that that is ok, but as Spade said (because I agree with him fully on this issue) it wasn't right to have everyone stand first and then sneak attack it. It feels manipulated, because it is. And that's the opposite of what Jesus would have done. He would have sat through graduation quietly and then talked to people afterwords.Also: We are in 100% agreement that the harassment of this kid is terrible and the people involved are not Christians. They are punk "christians", and I hate them. The Bible says: " 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16 So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth." God isn't a huge fan of the christian "in name only". Their behavior is a terrible representation of Christ and it makes me sick.

[speedz99 145]

My only real point is that picking every battle is just tiring for no real gain. Go after the big injustices first.

By the time this is over, thousands upon thousands of people will have read or heard about this story, a story in which a bunch of "religious" conservatives ignored the constitution and berated someone for standing up for his rights. You really think this wasn't worth it?

Well, if it makes you feel any better, that was directed at some specific people, and really had nothing to do with the kid. (also, I feel bad that you saw it, since I love you.)

And I you. I'm not sure how you calling him a punk kid had nothing to do with the kid, but I'll trust you if you say that's not really what you meant.

Also: We are in 100% agreement that the harassment of this kid is terrible and the people involved are not Christians. They are punk "christians", and I hate them. The Bible says: " 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16 So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth." God isn't a huge fan of the christian "in name only". Their behavior is a terrible representation of Christ and it makes me sick.

Sadly, I'm sure they think they're more Christian than you.

[brvheart 1,753]

And I you. I'm not sure how you calling him a punk kid had nothing to do with the kid, but I'll trust you if you say that's not really what you meant.

Well, it's what I meant... but I don't think it or believe it. I was 100% doing it to piss people off. (just not you.) All the "right" people noticed.

[brvheart 1,753]

Your concern is noted.

haha.

[vbnautilus 48]

99% of religious people are perfectly normal, and realize their religion is irrational but makes them feel good. These are people who are good, good people, and don't deserve to be lumped with Jihad Joe.

You just made up a ridiculous statistic which is probably entirely backwards. I do not think most religious people accept that they are irrational.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

watching brvhrt tapdance backwards is always entertaining. i was so close to posting earlier, after speedz called brv out and before brv responded, that brv would be along shortly to claim he was only joking and that he would never actually assert what he just plainly said. damn my hesitiation.

[brvheart 1,753]

watching brvhrt tapdance backwards is always entertaining. i was so close to posting earlier, after speedz called brv out and before brv responded, that brv would be along shortly to claim he was only joking and that he would never actually assert what he just plainly said. damn my hesitiation.

eyeroll. Re-Read the thread.

[brvheart 1,753]

You just made up a ridiculous statistic which is probably entirely backwards. I do not think most religious people accept that they are irrational.

I probably agree with you, in theory, but that being said, I do think that the far majority of Christians I hang with realize that there isn't tangible evidence of a God. (well, besides Earth... and life and stuff.) I do agree with you about the rational vs. irrational terms specifically, however. Most feel that their conclusion in lieu of evidence is rational, but that's most likely because they don't understand the definition of the word.For instance, I think it's rational to believe that it's possible that a higher power created the universe, since as of right now, there isn't any reasonable explanation as to how the universe and life got here. See: I don't understand the word rational.Side note for LLY: I mean, why are we looking for planets with water? Why does all life have to be water based? Couldn't life somewhere else in the universe not be water based?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Side note for LLY: I mean, why are we looking for planets with water? Why does all life have to be water based? Couldn't life somewhere else in the universe not be water based?

It's of course possible, but water is an very universal substance. Molecularly, it's made up of common elements in the universe which make it very abundant. Essentially, if a planet is going to have any type of large liquid body, it's WAY more likely to be water. And it has very important properties. It is an ideal solvent, meaning that things very easily mix into it. This allows it to become very "soup" like with minerals, proteins, acids, and the other building blocks of life. Other types of liquid tend to separate out too easily, so you don't get the sort of primordial stew that brews life. But, yeah, people look for it because it's really all we know. If someone told me that alien life was produced in a sulfer bath near a volcano somewhere, I wouldn't be shocked.

[Roll the Bones 74]

99% of religious people are perfectly normal, and realize their religion is irrational but makes them feel good. These are people who are good, good people, and don't deserve to be lumped with Jihad Joe.

Why not? You are in some way insinuating that they should get a pass because they "aren't as crazy" as if there is some level of craziness due to religon that is acceptable. The insinuation they do no harm is laughable at the very best. When the millions of peace loving Christians aren't attending Ark Parks or attending regular brainwashing meetings they do vote. And by they vote based on their Christian beliefs, those same beliefs that lead them to denigrate anyone that isn't towing the line to their elitist cultist mantras. Islamic people, yep they are all Jihad Joes. Athiests, foreigners, gays and the list goes on. There biggest target this year is apparently women where right wing nut jobs say things like,Kansas Rep. Pete DeGraaf: Being impregnated during a rape is just like getting a flat tire.http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2011/05/pete_d...e_flat_tire.php

ansas representative Pete DeGraaf is fighting for a bill that would exclude abortion coverage in cases of rape. He thinks the state should stay out of that problem, and it should just be something that women "plan ahead for":Bollier asked him, "And so women need to plan ahead for issues that they have no control over with pregnancy?" DeGraaf drew groans of protest from some House members when he responded, "I have a spare tire on my car." "I also have life insurance," he added. "I have a lot of things that I plan ahead for."You heard the man, ladies. You should all just get organized and make plans now for the aftermath of your rape. Maybe set up a cookie jar in the kitchen and tuck a dollar bill in it now and then, as your rainy day rape abortion fund. Your supportive boy friends and spouses can cheerfully contribute, too, and if you're a member of a lesbian couple, you could have a matching pair (for cute!). Get one for your daughters, too, and start them on saving a little bit every year — after all, young girls get raped, too, so you might as well make it a regular feature of their lives.By the way, the compassionate Pete DeGraaf is also an associate pastor. I am not surprised.

Or the 916 laws they have attmepted to pass this year to get around women's reproductive rights.http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/upda...rends12011.html

To date, legislators have introduced 916 measures related to reproductive health and rights in the 49 legislatures that have convened their regular sessions. (Louisiana’s legislature will not convene until late April.) By the end of March, seven states had enacted 15 new laws on these issues, including provisions that:•expand the pre-abortion waiting period requirement in South Dakota to make it more onerous than that in any other state, by extending the time from 24 hours to 72 hours and requiring women to obtain counseling from a crisis pregnancy center in the interim; •expand the abortion counseling requirement in South Dakota to mandate that counseling be provided in-person by the physician who will perform the abortion and that counseling include information published after 1972 on all the risk factors related to abortion complications, even if the data are scientifically flawed; •require the health departments in Utah and Virginia to develop new regulations governing abortion clinics;•revise the Utah abortion refusal clause to allow any hospital employee to refuse to “participate in any way” in an abortion; •limit abortion coverage in all private health plans in Utah, including plans that will be offered in the state’s health exchange; and •revise the Mississippi sex education law to require all school districts to provide abstinence-only sex education while permitting discussion of contraception only with prior approval from the state. In addition to these laws, more than 120 other bills have been approved by at least one chamber of the legislature, and some interesting trends are emerging. As a whole, the proposals introduced this year are more hostile to abortion rights than in the past: 56% of the bills introduced so far this year seek to restrict abortion access, compared with 38% last year. Three topics—insurance coverage of abortion, restriction of abortion after a specific point in gestation and ultrasound requirements—are topping the agenda in several states. At the same time, legislators are proposing little in the way of proactive initiatives aimed at expanding access to reproductive health –related services; this stands in sharp contrast to recent years when a range of initiatives to promote comprehensive sex education, permit expedited STI treatment for patients’ partners and ensure insurance coverage of contraception were adopted. For the moment, at least, supporters of reproductive health and rights are almost uniformly playing defense at the state level.

http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/upda...rends12011.htmlAnd I can obviously go on and on and on about how the belief in Christianity effects all of us. Let alone the millions Catholicism has killed by scaring poor people in Africa into not using condoms.But all religions are out of touch with reality. All religions are implausible, based on cognitive biases, and unsupported by any good evidence whatsoever. All of them ultimately rely on faith -- i.e., an irrational attachment to a pre-existing idea regardless of any evidence that contradicts it -- as the core foundation of their belief. All of them contort, ignore, or deny reality in order to maintain their attachment to their faith.And by that definition, all religions are equally crazy.Some just hide their craziness better than others.

[Mercury69 3]

Cool guy. I hope he succeeds in life.But also..."Matt Damon Fowler"

[CaneBrain 95]

I'm calling him a punk for the same reason that Spade can't possibly create a post without a condensing personal insult: to get a reaction and push buttons. And, as usual, it worked perfectly, Punk.

yeah, I don't really believe you. That's something Lurbz would do.Also, what's a condensing personal insult? 5 insults in 1?

[Spademan 94]

I'm calling him a punk for the same reason that Spade can't possibly create a post without a condensing personal insult: to get a reaction and push buttons. And, as usual, it worked perfectly, Punk.