The 1963 Communist Goals

[Balloon guy 158]

McCarthy was right

J. Edgar Hoover, in 1943, informed Roosevelt of Soviet spying both within the government and at the Russian Embassy. On this occasion Roosevelt not only disregarded the evidence, he sent Harry Hopkins, his Domestic Affairs advisor, to warn the Soviet embassy that their phones were tapped.In 1946 Hoover again went to the White House, this time providing Harry Truman with a list of known Communists and sympathizers still in the government. Truman's response was: "What am I going to do? Give those @#%&* Republicans up on the Hill something to bash me with." ...From 1943 until 1980, unbeknownst to virtually everyone, the National Security Agency intercepted every Soviet message going from or to the United States. It was not until 1994 that their existence was even acknowledged, and 1995 when the first 1,400 of 240,000 intercepts were released to the public. Their content was damning and supportive of the contentions of not only McCarthy but Whittaker Chambers, Elizabeth Bentley, Hoover, and others.The collapse of Communism opened files of not only internal Soviet spy documents but also gave the FBI, CIA, and American scholars access to the files of the American Communist Party that had been hidden in a Russian warehouse since 1950. The cat was out of the clichéd bag. ...Just how many did McCarthy catch? Darn few. Of the 10,000 government employees who were exposed as Communists, security risks, or of questionable loyalty and lost their jobs, at the least, only forty can be attributed to McCarthy. ...Lattimore was a McCarthy "coup". Lattimore was the individual who coined the term "McCarthyism" in response to and defense of the charges brought against him. In a feeble attempt to attack the messenger, Lattimore went so far as to write a book declaring his innocence while, at the same time, attacking McCarthy.There was only one problem in all of this for Lattimore: Hoover had given Lattimore's FBI file to McCarthy and McCarthy had Louis Budenz as a witness, a former Communist, who'd worked with Lattimore. McCarthy carried the day but was forever stuck with the sobriquet "McCarthyism". ...Was he a pillar of virtue? Hardly! He was a dreadful alcoholic and eventually died from cirrhosis of the liver. He was a bully, unkempt, crude, and a lout. He once unmercifully pummeled Drew Pearson, his antagonist in the press, after a dinner party, in the coat room of a Washington doyenne. He had many physical and character shortcomings. But he was right.For all those rushing to put pen to paper to denounce any of the above, you'd be best advised to first do your "homework". Read "Venona" (Yale University Press); "The Secret World Of American Communism" (Yale University Press); "The Haunted Wood" (Random House); "The Venona Secrets" (Regnery); "The Secret History Of the KGB" (Basic Books); "Whittaker Chambers: A Biography" (Modern Library); and "Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the life and legacy of America's most hated Senator" (Free Press). If at first you haven't read the above, then you are coming unarmed for a battle of wits.

Another good article

Using new information obtained from studies of old Soviet files in Moscow and now the famous Venona Intercepts -- FBI recordings of Soviet embassy communications between 1944-48 -- the record is showing that McCarthy was essentially right. He had many weaknesses, but almost every case he charged has now been proven correct.

You guys can pretend that what you were told in your liberal schools was right, but the facts are that there were communist in America, trying to bring down the country and convert us to God-less communist. And we all know how many millions of people die whenever a country denies the existence of God!History had to wait until the records were opened up for review, and now we know that McCarthy was right. So you either have to argue that the facts are falsified, or that the leftist media, who sympathies with commies, has been wrong all this time about yet another thing they held so dear.

[Balloon guy 158]

And what happens if you reverse Glenn Beck's initials.That's right.BGJust sayin'.

I was here first

[strategy's_touch 0]

I liked McCarthy.Just because he was paranoid, doesn't mean the communist weren't infiltrating Hollywood, Congress and the news media.You guys are the ones trying to rewrite history

there were definitely a few communist infiltrators, but not enough to justify his going Robespierre all over everybody's ass. reading back over the history of Russian intelligence is really quite chilling. maybe everyone else just understates their accomplishments, I don't know, but they basically own the world pretty hard in that respect even today, dating back to at least WWII. Stalin had knowledge of Hitler's invasion plans (op Barbarossa) the moment he informed his most trusted group of advisors, well before any actual troop preparations...

[Zealous Donkey 0]

there were definitely a few communist infiltrators, but not enough to justify his going Robespierre all over everybody's ass. reading back over the history of Russian intelligence is really quite chilling. maybe everyone else just understates their accomplishments, I don't know, but they basically own the world pretty hard in that respect even today, dating back to at least WWII. Stalin had knowledge of Hitler's invasion plans (op Barbarossa) the moment he informed his most trusted group of advisors, well before any actual troop preparations...

I suggest a reading of the book Witness, by Whittaker Chambers.

[Balloon guy 158]

there were definitely a few communist infiltrators, but not enough to justify his going Robespierre all over everybody's ass.

From the second link I posted:Pulling all the latest evidence together was luncheon speaker Professor Arthur Herman. His new book, "Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator," and featured in the Sunday New York Times Magazine, shows the vindication of most of McCarthy's charges. Herman, who is also coordinator of the Smithsonian's Western Heritage Program, said that the accuracy of McCarthy's charges "was no longer a matter of debate," that they are "now accepted as fact." However, the term "McCarthyism" still remains in the language.Asked whether McCarthy had understood all the forces arrayed against him, Herman said no, that McCarthy hadn't realized he'd be fighting against much of the Washington establishment. President Truman was fearful that exposures would reflect on key Democrat officials, he said, and big media and the academic world were very leftist, a heritage of the Depression and World War II. High government officials also feared investigations of their past appointments and associations with people who turned out to be communists or sympathizers.That was the reason McCarthy was so demonized, he said.

reading back over the history of Russian intelligence is really quite chilling. maybe everyone else just understates their accomplishments, I don't know, but they basically own the world pretty hard in that respect even today, dating back to at least WWII. Stalin had knowledge of Hitler's invasion plans (op Barbarossa) the moment he informed his most trusted group of advisors, well before any actual troop preparations...

I don't get it, either they weren't that big a threat and McCarthy was over reacting, or they were "basically own the world pretty hard in that respect even today, dating back to at least WWII".You are contradicting yourself.

[strategy's_touch 0]

there's a pretty big distinction between pointing out fears over communist infiltration and providing an ever-growing list of names sporting a curious correlation with his list of enemies. no question, the russkies were a threat, but McC's allegations were a MUCH bigger threat as far as actual disruption goes. if I had access to a PC, I would provide a list of falsely accused vs. correctly identifieds to prove my point. Ike smacked his ass down for good reason.

[Balloon guy 158]

there's a pretty big distinction between pointing out fears over communist infiltration and providing an ever-growing list of names sporting a curious correlation with his list of enemies. no question, the russkies were a threat, but McC's allegations were a MUCH bigger threat as far as actual disruption goes. if I had access to a PC, I would provide a list of falsely accused vs. correctly identifieds to prove my point. Ike smacked his ass down for good reason.

Did he go a little crazy?YesBut he was right, and the White House was ignoring the problem.So the question to you, and you don't need your Mr. Google thing on the internet to answer this;Was a senator of the United States, who was presented FBI files that proved high level officials were in fact communist and were subverting American's foreign policy to further their communist goals, was this Senator right to try to stop it?Or should a Senator presented with these facts just ignore them and let things work themselves out?Don't pull a Clinton and try to pretend that you can lie and we have to believe you.

[strategy's_touch 0]

I love how you refer to one of the most useful tools in the history of mankind as 'Mr. Google'.I will examine the evidence against the Truman administration when I get off work.

[85suited 0]

If you actually first found out about this by perusing congressional records from 1963, that would be far, far, far weirder. Shall we start again?

so do you want to have a debate about what has or hasn't happened or are you just going to ridicule the questions you don't like.I believe the question was posed - you decide...

[Balloon guy 158]

I love how you refer to one of the most useful tools in the history of mankind as 'Mr. Google'.I will examine the evidence against the Truman administration when I get off work.

PuleeeseGoggley is not even in the top 20

[CaneBrain 95]

so do you want to have a debate about what has or hasn't happened or are you just going to ridicule the questions you don't like.I believe the question was posed - you decide...

Um, I already answered which ones I think have happened and which have not. Don't know how much more I can give you other than I think you're wrong.

[vbnautilus 48]

Did he go a little crazy?YesBut he was right, and the White House was ignoring the problem.So the question to you, and you don't need your Mr. Google thing on the internet to answer this;Was a senator of the United States, who was presented FBI files that proved high level officials were in fact communist and were subverting American's foreign policy to further their communist goals, was this Senator right to try to stop it?Or should a Senator presented with these facts just ignore them and let things work themselves out?Don't pull a Clinton and try to pretend that you can lie and we have to believe you.

Our citizens thankfully have a right to be communist.

[Balloon guy 158]

Our citizens thankfully have a right to be communist.

And I have a right to enjoy watching my elected officials burn them at the stake

[strategy 4]

So I followed through on my promise to look at the evidence.I found way, way more disagreement on Hiss than I'd been led to believe in school. I mentioned the Venona project before, here's the page on it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_cablesThe problem of spies using multiple code names is the proverbial monkey wrench, which is something you're not gonna hear from Anne Coulter or Glenn Beck.An investigative journalist named Fred Cook wrote that all but about 65 of McCarthy's 205 supposed state department communists had left or been removed by the time he made that statement, and those ~65 were subjected to extra security checks and what have you. He also believed Hiss was innocent, so hey, grain of salt.Something I hadn't thought of before: we have some tangible evidence that this witch hunt nonsense actually hurt us in the intelligence war. One of the underlying theories for why Aldrich Ames was able to operate for so long and do so much damage was a reaction to the lashing the CIA took over the paranoid mole-hunting while James Angleton was at the helm. To a lesser degree, the same stigma re: molehunts allowed Robert Hanssen to operate for so long with the FBI. Thank god we can just buy our way out of these messes, otherwise Hanssen might still be with the FBI today...Really just scratching the surface here, but I'm not interested in writing a paper on it.

[strategy 4]

23) Control art critics and directors of art museums. " Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art".

In honor of point #23, I decided to watch Solaris tonight. You will find Tarkovsky--a communist era filmmaker--on any worthwhile top sci fi movie list. Stalker easily occupies a spot in my top 10 favorite movies of all time, so I have high hopes for Solaris.

[brvheart 1,752]

In honor of point #23, I decided to watch Solaris tonight. You will find Tarkovsky--a communist era filmmaker--on any worthwhile top sci fi movie list. Stalker easily occupies a spot in my top 10 favorite movies of all time, so I have high hopes for Solaris.

You're going to be disappointed.

[AmScray 355]

The entire list smacks of things purported to associated with 'communists' so as to advance a further right wing agenda.In short, make a list of a bunch of things you want to see, then invert that list and say the communists said those things, all during a time when the word 'communist' was a buzz word that generated fear, much like 'terrorism' does today.This one, though, is off-kilter from a historical perspective.

23) Control art critics and directors of art museums. " Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art".

Quite to the contrary, abstract expressionism was promoted by anti-communist delegates in the 50's and 60's as sort of an F-U to the regimented, deeply practical and systematic orientation of Communism. Interesting piece on this issue here:http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/1...017crat_atlarge

[Balloon guy 158]

Plus the Hermitage has a few nice pieces of art.

[Man Who Lost china 0]

McCarthy was rightAnother good articleYou guys can pretend that what you were told in your liberal schools was right, but the facts are that there were communist in America, trying to bring down the country and convert us to God-less communist. And we all know how many millions of people die whenever a country denies the existence of God!History had to wait until the records were opened up for review, and now we know that McCarthy was right. So you either have to argue that the facts are falsified, or that the leftist media, who sympathies with commies, has been wrong all this time about yet another thing they held so dear.

Where to begin?Budenz never worked with Lattimore. After five years of House Unamerican Activities Committee testimony, writing an autobiography, and being debriefed by the FBI, Budenz suddenly recalled he'd been told Lattimore was a Communist.It was a lie then and it is a lie now.Visit My Website

[Balloon guy 158]

Where to begin?Budenz never worked with Lattimore. After five years of House Unamerican Activities Committee testimony, writing an autobiography, and being debriefed by the FBI, Budenz suddenly recalled he'd been told Lattimore was a Communist.It was a lie then and it is a lie now.Visit My Website

Guess that means all them Russian documents were forged by...whom?It's hard to give up your hatred of McCarthy, but it's okay. We won't think less of you

[Zealous Donkey 0]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/world/europe/29spy.html?hp

[mk 11]

McCarthy was right

BG has gone bye bye...Egon, what've you got left?

[nutzbuster 7]

The biggest deception of all is that the Cold War ended.hardy har har comrade

[QED 4]

there were definitely a few communist infiltrators, but not enough to justify his going Robespierre all over everybody's ass. reading back over the history of Russian intelligence is really quite chilling. maybe everyone else just understates their accomplishments, I don't know, but they basically own the world pretty hard in that respect even today, dating back to at least WWII. Stalin had knowledge of Hitler's invasion plans (op Barbarossa) the moment he informed his most trusted group of advisors, well before any actual troop preparations...

I'm not sure about understates, Soviet intelligence did have some big successes but it was also massively hamstrung. Most of the major successes in the political sphere came in the inter war period, during the second world war and in the decade or so after the war ended came from "true believer" drop ins. Once the second world war ended a lot of motivation which came from wanting to help the soviets against the nazis withered away and as more information about how the soviet union wasn't actually a heaven for the workers and peasants got out there were less true believers in communism. Soviet attempts to place illegals, soviets living undercover in the US, were pretty much a disaster from start to finish. In the cases when agents didn't see the higher standard of living and defect/go rogue post haste their training was so bad they were quickly rounded up. Even bigger than the problems collecting political intelligence was analysis of it. You can't go telling the boss his pet theory is rubbish based on collected intel when he is a paranoid nut bar that likes to ship dissenters off to the gulag. The Cambridge spy ring in England was largely distrusted as British ruse up until 1942 or so if I remember right because they couldn't turn up any evidence of British penetration of Soviet intelligence which Stalin believed must exist. They did know about Hitlers plans to invade the soviet union too but obviously again this was an imperialist trick to draw them into the war. This continued even up to the 80s when KGB resources were focused on finding evidence of the preemptive strike that NATO had to be planning. No one could find any evidence of it but you had to keep sending reports home on it to keep the center happy.Where they did a lot better was in thieving technology. There wasn't any need to pander to the parties warped political expectations here and on the western side security was pretty terrible for a long time at private contractors. Even getting their hands on non classified stuff was important in helping keep soviet tech from lagging way behind. Much easier to bribe some under paid staff member at an unclassified private electronics company to sell you random stuff when you pretend to be from a rival firm than get state or defense secrets. If you are interested in the subject Christopher Andrew has some really good but large books.