Show Us Your Papers

[hblask 1]

Nobody clicked on my link did they? Everyone keeps saying h has data to back up that legalization works. He posted a link where one country is seemingly having success. I posted a link showing that many countries have tried and failed at legalization. I believe that makes his data the dreaded isolated incident. Here it is again http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/debate/myths/myths4.htmAnd just as an fyi I don't consider myself right wing, or left wing, or democrat, or republican. My father is very republican and I argue against him most of the time. I also think pot should not be classified as a drug in the same way meth and heroine are.

I clicked it, and the arguments are really amateurish and silly. Compare to the CATO report on Portugal, and see the difference between a real study and really bad propaganda. If I get time, I'll point out the ridiculousness of it sometime.

[hblask 1]

Plenty of people go to rehab, it doesn't always work. Remove the fear and the majority of people who don't ask for help still wont ask. You also say criminalization (or telling people they will go to jail for using) makes people use more, but the same fear of going to jail makes them get help less, that doesn't make sense.

First of all, stop doing this inline quoting, it's retarded. And someone said you reminded them of Copernicus.... he did this do, and it was annoying then. Are you Copernicus? If so, welcome back!Recent data shows that rates drop, but I also said that while that's the data, I believe it is a coincidence. I believe usage rates are independent of law enforcement. Giving people a means to get over their addiction without fear of jail is a good thing.

[hblask 1]

Again poor wording on my part since I forgot every post but yours can and has to be taken literally word for word. I should have said you don't have to look very hard to find plenty of stories, where people who have had no criminal past, commit crimes in direct relation to their addiction.

Yes, how does that support your argument? Prohibition has no affect or causes a decrease in addiction rates. Why would adding a harmful policy to a harmful habit cause a net positive effect?

[Ninjafoo 0]

I am not giving up my civil rights for anything, but especially for some false hope that somebody I don't know is altering their mood with chemicals. It just doesn't bother me that such an event happens in the world, and I don't know why it would bother anyone else, either.

I sincerly hope you never come across a meth head who would just as soon kill and rob you and your family as look at you, for no other reason than to feed his addiction. That way you get to stay in the fantasy world that all drug users are nice, polite, good people.Also which civil right is the one that says you have the right to do any and every drug?

[Ninjafoo 0]

Yes, how does that support your argument? Prohibition has no affect or causes a decrease in addiction rates. Why would adding a harmful policy to a harmful habit cause a net positive effect?

I was not talking about prohibiton, I was pointing out how drug addiction has direct effect on certain crimes. You seem to think there is never a connection between someone stealing to feed their addiction, and the person's addiction.

[Ninjafoo 0]

First of all, stop doing this inline quoting, it's retarded. And someone said you reminded them of Copernicus.... he did this do, and it was annoying then. Are you Copernicus? If so, welcome back!Recent data shows that rates drop, but I also said that while that's the data, I believe it is a coincidence. I believe usage rates are independent of law enforcement. Giving people a means to get over their addiction without fear of jail is a good thing.

Sorry it's just faster and easier for me to do that, and no I'm not Copernicus lol.And my main point here is how illogical it is to think that telling someone they will go to jail will make them use more, while at the same time the fear of going to jail makes them not get help.I agree that no one should have to fear going to jail if they want help.

[Ninjafoo 0]

I clicked it, and the arguments are really amateurish and silly. Compare to the CATO report on Portugal, and see the difference between a real study and really bad propaganda. If I get time, I'll point out the ridiculousness of it sometime.

I agree the website is obvisouly biased, but everything is cited. I welcome you to try and disprove all the cited data. If you can leaving only your data on portugal, I will say you win and bow out of that part of the discussion.

[Balloon guy 158]

But my loaded questions have a factual basis. See, when you say "risk the lives of our children", that is clearly a falsehood, because legalization makes it more difficult for kids to get drugs. So prohibition is the policy that is risking the lives of children, and it is not helping anyone.Harming children is not an effective way of helping them.

Legalization makes it more difficult...I don't follow your logic. It is illegal now, the police are arresting people who sell it, drug pushers have to hide to sell it.If they legalize it, then it will be... yea, I don't see how you can argue it will be harder for kids to get.Some of your arguments have merit, this one has none.

[Balloon guy 158]

Pretty sure nobody has been arguing to allow in criminals. But keeping out people who want to come here to work is very bad policy.

So then you would rate the people that want to come in, the ones that want to be legal.Some of those people would not be welcome into our society. Not wanting them doesn't mean they won't get in, but it does mean we shouldn't want to make it easy.That's what I am saying we should do with drugs...

[Balloon guy 158]

I clicked it, and the arguments are really amateurish and silly. Compare to the CATO report on Portugal, and see the difference between a real study and really bad propaganda. If I get time, I'll point out the ridiculousness of it sometime.

Yea..I don't know if Portugal is someone we want to be emulating now...

[Balloon guy 158]

You know if I was a believer in evolution I would argue that the current immigration issues are a perfect time to kick out the entire group of idiot immigrants who actually were dumb enough to go through legal methods to become citizens.By taking this idiotic effort, they are required by law to carry with them at all time their work visas and renew them on a regular basis. They must also produce these document on demand by any government official.Where as now we learn the many people in this country do not require the same conditions on the people who have sneak into this country. They are not to be asked to produce any documents...because to do so is racist.So obviously the ones who came in here legally are inferior people and as such are not the best thinkers of the two groups.So you evolutionist should be arguing to deport the ones who signed up in exchange for the smarter ones who didn't.Of course I am not tied down by this foolish mind set that crowds out the ability to see data for what it is...

[Balloon guy 158]

read this:it seems there were a host of exogenous factors that influenced the rise in usage in alaska, not decriminalization. also, after recriminalizing they have since decriminalized once again. so, you know, guess it wasn't that bad.

Guess they forgot to tell the police

For police in Anchorage, the state's largest city, it's business as usual. "We are still enforcing the law the way we were before this," said Anchorage Police Department public affairs officer Ron McGee. "As far as that goes, there has been no change," he told DRCNet. "And it's still illegal under federal law," he added.

Funny how they blamed the pipe line, during the late 70s, but then re-criminalized in in the 90s, by a vote of the people.I guess government is slow...Or you guys are

[brvheart 1,752]

You should work on combining your posts.

[Balloon guy 158]

You should work on combining your posts.

Post Count = PowerPlus I hate those 15 different arguments in each post that you end up feeling required to address each one lest the person claim victory and you have to endure false victory speeches for months...

[YonYonson 156]

And my main point here is how illogical it is to think that telling someone they will go to jail will make them use more, while at the same time the fear of going to jail makes them not get help.

You seriously need to learn how to read.

[Balloon guy 158]

I think you need to re-read your imaginary needle park experiment. There were needle parks. Basically they were normal parks that jnkies used illegal heroin. They took some of the junkies and gave them prescribed heroin from clinics. Starting with a small amount of repeated offenders and then adding more. It was successful in reducing the amount junkies using needles in parks. So successful that they voted on it and its now legal for junkies to get their shot of heroin from clinics. So yes it was successful, no they didn't shut it down, unless by shut it down you mean they enforced it nationwide.-------------------------This isn't too relevant to the OP but its interesting: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8658017.stm

No, Needle Park was the first attempt where they made a drug free zone, it ruined the neighborhood so they shut it down, tried it again and it failed again.So then they switched to a low cost get your fix here center for a select few and are so far happy with the results.I guess if you feel one of the roles of government is to underwrite the use of hard drugs with tax dollars is a better choice than making it illegal then you can trust that opening up this program to everyone who wants it will be the same as having a very select few people allowed.I'm not so optimistic about that.

[brvheart 1,752]

Don't listen to them Ninjafoo, you're starting to break them!

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

Don't listen to them Ninjafoo, you're starting to break them!

oh my god titties.

[rjkdb8 1]

Legalization makes it more difficult...I don't follow your logic. It is illegal now, the police are arresting people who sell it, drug pushers have to hide to sell it.If they legalize it, then it will be... yea, I don't see how you can argue it will be harder for kids to get.Some of your arguments have merit, this one has none.

I can't speak on behalf of the entire crack selling community, but when I sell crack, I rarely ask for ID unless the buyer appears to be middle school age or younger. I am starting to fear I may lose my crack dealing license.

[Ninjafoo 0]

Based on historical data, drug laws cause either no change or a slight increase in drug abuse and addiction.

He said it another time but I dont remeber where it was and dont feel like looking.Not to mention never posting said data that shows and increase in drug abuse as direct effect of criminalization.

People rarely ask for help voluntarily for fear of imprisonment. Remove that fear and people who want help will ask.

You seriously need to learn how to read.

I think you meant to say "You seriously need to interpret what you read as not what you read but something that fits a political stance."

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

I think you meant to say "You seriously need to interpret what you read as not what you read but something that fits a political stance."

I dont think thats what we meant.

[Ninjafoo 0]

I dont think thats what we meant.

Then what did you mean? I posted exactly where h said drug laws (laws, as in going to going to jail n such) slighty increase drug abuse and addiction. I also posted exactly where h said people don't get help for the fear of imprisonment (under the same law that makes them use more). I said that thinking people will use more when they will go to jail for it(after the law has been introduced) and also thinking people wont get help for the same fear of going to jail is illogical. The response was that I need to learn to read, what did I not read correctly out of the quoted posts?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Self Edit because pointing out another poster's hypocrisy, accurate as I may be, isn't contributing to the discussion.

[CaneBrain 95]

I can't speak on behalf of the entire crack selling community, but when I sell crack, I rarely ask for ID unless the buyer appears to be middle school age or younger. I am starting to fear I may lose my crack dealing license.

How am I gonna get ridda all dis crack?Copernicus was socially middle of the road....I doubt he is ninjafoo.

[nutzbuster 7]

Pardon me for de-railing this thread and getting it back on track, but something cool has happened.Al Sharpton just arrived here in Phoenix to help celebrate Cinco De Mayo-naise and protest against this great new law that has already destroyed families and killed millions, even though not one damn thing has happened,and it's not even a real law yet.All I know is that if the good reverend is here it's proof that the State is on the right track. 12 other States are now considering similar legislation. it's good to lead....