The Existence Of Morality

[Balloon guy 158]

Hey BG, don't worry about the size of this list. He's got the Kentucky Academy of Science in there three times, so it's not as daunting as it seems.

But the Uganda health ministry adds a lot of strength

[Randy Reed 0]

What's been very apparent throughout this thread is that BG doesn't even grasp what morality actually is. He thinks it's a divine spirit thing that God created. Given that it's some elusive spirit thing he has neglected to even acknowledge what therest of you are talking about. You were going off about Obama or society deciding what is moral which illustrates my point further.Morality is simple a term used to describe what society deems as appropriate behaviour.Morality embraces a person’s beliefs about the appropriateness or goodness of what he does, thinks, or feels. Morality isn't a doctrine. It isn't set laws. It isn't carved in stone. It is a person's "beliefs".So I don't get what you are saying that God created in the first place? Are you simply arguing that God gave usthe ability to judge the approptiateness of what we do, think and feel?

[Spademan 94]

Hey BG, don't worry about the size of this list. He's got the Kentucky Academy of Science in there three times, so it's not as daunting as it seems.

Fuck.Leave it to the stats guy to catch me padding my stats with the power of Kentucky.I just didn't think a shit-ton thousands vs two hundred and ninety-nine (almost exclusively creationists) was a wide enough margin.

[Balloon guy 158]

What's been very apparent throughout this thread is that BG doesn't even grasp what morality actually is. He thinks it's a divine spirit thing that God created. Given that it's some elusive spirit thing he has neglected to even acknowledge what therest of you are talking about. You were going off about Obama or society deciding what is moral which illustrates my point further.Morality is simple a term used to describe what society deems as appropriate behaviour.Morality embraces a person’s beliefs about the appropriateness or goodness of what he does, thinks, or feels. Morality isn't a doctrine. It isn't set laws. It isn't carved in stone. It is a person's "beliefs".So I don't get what you are saying that God created in the first place? Are you simply arguing that God gave usthe ability to judge the approptiateness of what we do, think and feel?

Some people believe right and wrong is seperate from human opinion.

[vbnautilus 48]

Some people believe right and wrong is seperate from human opinion.

It is up to the apes.

[crowTrobot 2]

Some people believe right and wrong is seperate from human opinion.

some people fly planes into buildings

[Randy Reed 0]

Some people believe right and wrong is seperate from human opinion.

What morality is IS HUMAN OPINION!You've admitted God never told us what that specific morality is actually.

[Balloon guy 158]

What morality is IS HUMAN OPINION!

So if I find a poll that shows that 51%+ people believe that morality is not subjective, you would admit you are wrong?

[Balloon guy 158]

It is up to the apes.

GET YOUR HANDS OFF OF ME

[Balloon guy 158]

some people fly planes into buildings

Some people buy books by Dickie Dawkins

[crowTrobot 2]

Some people buy books by Dickie Dawkins

point was people who are following what they think is an objective standard of morality can never agree on what the standard is, and frequently do things that others consider immoralin the name of their "objective" standard.it should be obvious that there is no preset objective standard of morality, only what emerges from broad social consensus as a result of collective experience.

[crowTrobot 2]

So if I find a poll that shows that 51%+ people believe that morality is not subjective, you would admit you are wrong?

if you find a poll that shows that 51%+ of christians think it's moral to stone adulterers i'll admit i'm wrong.

[Balloon guy 158]

if you find a poll that shows that 51%+ of christians think it's moral to stone adulterers i'll admit i'm wrong.

Why would we admit that something that was a rule, that has been fullfilled, is required to live under again? Or do you not understand what Christ did on the cross?

[Balloon guy 158]

point was people who are following what they think is an objective standard of morality can never agree on what the standard is, and frequently do things that others consider immoralin the name of their "objective" standard.it should be obvious that there is no preset objective standard of morality, only what emerges from broad social consensus as a result of collective experience.

How broad?The entire world, or just the world that makes and sells Ipods? What about our national sovereignty? Is that subject to the opinion of Ghana and Chile? Or just in the borders of the country that is trying to make the standard?And if a country decides that something is wrong, say abortion, does another country have the right to tell them they are wrong for thinking that?I actually would like the idea of the majority getting to set all the rules, since I'm a Christian and we are the vast majority in this country. Or do you expect us to let you guys continue spreading your progaganda that is directly opposite from what you are trying to preach? That what is considered wrong by the majority is the law of the land? That pesky constiution thing sure must bother you guys, it gets to say what is right and wrong no matter what every single person in the country thinks. Your idea of morality is a cute catch phrase, but even you guys don't live by it. You pretend you want the anarchistic legality of majority rule, while living safely behind a curtain of protection offered to you from Judeo-Christian founded principles found in our constitution. But the parasitic nature of atheism is a topic we've already covered.

[crowTrobot 2]

How broad?The entire world, or just the world that makes and sells Ipods? What about our national sovereignty? Is that subject to the opinion of Ghana and Chile? Or just in the borders of the country that is trying to make the standard?And if a country decides that something is wrong, say abortion, does another country have the right to tell them they are wrong for thinking that?I actually would like the idea of the majority getting to set all the rules, since I'm a Christian and we are the vast majority in this country. Or do you expect us to let you guys continue spreading your progaganda that is directly opposite from what you are trying to preach? That what is considered wrong by the majority is the law of the land? That pesky constiution thing sure must bother you guys, it gets to say what is right and wrong no matter what every single person in the country thinks. Your idea of morality is a cute catch phrase, but even you guys don't live by it. You pretend you want the anarchistic legality of majority rule, while living safely behind a curtain of protection offered to you from Judeo-Christian founded principles found in our constitution. But the parasitic nature of atheism is a topic we've already covered.

impressive round of topic-shifting blabber to avoid the issue there.point was there is no evidence humans are in touch with any kind of preset moral standard. even sounds like you're arguing that yourself above now, which is funny.yes, broad social consensus means all of humanity. only extremes, such as murder or throwing a drowning man a rope, that are demonstratably bad or good for societies are ever going to reach that level. otherwise without that morality is obviously subjective since there is so little agreement on most things.

[Spademan 94]

Your idea of morality is a cute catch phrase, but even you guys don't live by it. You pretend you want the anarchistic legality of majority rule, while living safely behind a curtain of protection offered to you from Judeo-Christian founded principles found in our constitution. But the parasitic nature of atheism is a topic we've already covered.

You are living safely not behind a curtain of old-ass, slave based ignorance that was SHACKLED by the constitution. That remarkably, for the time, REMARKABLY SECULAR document... you don't live behind the curtain of protection of that stupid ass cliche. You live behind a curtain of protection offered you by men and women who sacrifice to provide you that protection. Not some fairy tale sacrifice echoed and retold in myth after myth, many before your superstition in particular, in all of the worlds superstitions. But by real people, today, putting their lives on the line for you. Not some ignorant catch-phrase "judo-Christian" slave owner bullshit morality. That's what allows you to spout your staggeringly ignorant/delusional/brain-damaged/all of the above nonsense -- about evolution for example -- in the face of irrefutable reason and overwhelming evidence and support. It's what allows me to ad hom all over your face and neck and ankles. And neither of us be arrested or killed in the process. Enjoy.

[speedz99 145]

You live behind a curtain of protection offered you by men and women who sacrifice to provide you that protection. Not some fairy tale sacrifice echoed and retold in myth after myth, many before your superstition in particular, in all of the worlds superstitions. But by real people, today, putting their lives on the line for you. Not some ignorant catch-phrase "judo-Christian" slave owner bullshit morality.

I wish I could properly voice my disagreement with this sentiment. Yet, I can't, so any attempt would make me look like an insensitve jackass. Just know that I spent a good minute and a half trying to put my feelings into words before giving up because, in the end, I don't care all that much.

[brvheart 1,752]

if you find a poll that shows that 51%+ of christians think it's moral to stone adulterers i'll admit i'm wrong.

I would hope that any poll would be 0%, since Jesus himself condemned that. "Any of you without sin, cast the first stone."It's pretty shocking how little you guys understand about the Bible. You're brainwashed to believe that Christianity is many things that it's not.

[Spademan 94]

I wish I could properly voice my disagreement with this sentiment. Yet, I can't, so any attempt would make me look like an insensitve jackass. Just know that I spent a good minute and a half trying to put my feelings into words before giving up because, in the end, I don't care all that much.

Which part? That policemen, firemen, paramedics, soldiers and doctors provide protection from harm? Or that the "Judo-christian" catchphrase is a warped and flawed attempt to make it seem like this country is founded on some christian, moral utopia. Despite the clear call for separation from church and state, and the vast amount of "immorality" in that society. Morality that isn't necessarily any better or worse today, only different?Regardless, anything you formulate will look like Ghandi in terms of sensitivity when in relation to my posts. So go ahead and make your case. =P

[speedz99 145]

Which part? That policemen, firemen, paramedics, soldiers and doctors provide protection from harm?

Hmm, I read your post a bit incorrectly (re: poorly). My argument was going to be with the flawed ideas that a. the majority of armed forces activity is about "protecting our freedom" b. the majority of soldiers are driven by anything but the ridiculous notion of judeo-christianity being what makes this country greatBut you didn't really say either of those things, so I would have been arguing with empty space.

[crowTrobot 2]

I would hope that any poll would be 0%, since Jesus himself condemned that. "Any of you without sin, cast the first stone."It's pretty shocking how little you guys understand about the Bible. You're brainwashed to believe that Christianity is many things that it's not.

i was making the point that murder, genocide etc, were in the name of an "objective" standard considered moral at one time, and now are generally not.and that applies to the whole world, not just christians. those things have gradually come to be considered immoral only through collective social experience.obviously humanity never was in touch with any pre-existing objective moral standard.

[vbnautilus 48]

I would hope that any poll would be 0%, since Jesus himself condemned that. "Any of you without sin, cast the first stone."It's pretty shocking how little you guys understand about the Bible. You're brainwashed to believe that Christianity is many things that it's not.

The fact that morality shifted even within the Bible supports crow's point.

[solderz 0]

I would hope that any poll would be 0%, since Jesus himself condemned that. "Any of you without sin, cast the first stone."It's pretty shocking how little you guys understand about the Bible. You're brainwashed to believe that Christianity is many things that it's not.

Wow. That is an ironic comment.Who do you think is brainwashing people against Christianity?

[Randy Reed 0]

So if I find a poll that shows that 51%+ people believe that morality is not subjective, you would admit you are wrong?

BG, you obviously just post to try to incite people and don't believe the blather you post. By definition morality is subjective. It is a fact not in dispute. I've only been trying to get you to make a simple point. What exactly is the point of the thread? You seem to be trying to infer that morality came from God, yet you don't even understand what morality is so why does it matter where it came from. It doesn't matter if it came from God or evolution it's purely subjective so who cares?If you are trying to make the case that people are good because of God i'd say he did a very poor job of it then.Again, please explain what exactly you think God gave us during creation.

How broad?The entire world, or just the world that makes and sells Ipods? What about our national sovereignty? Is that subject to the opinion of Ghana and Chile? Or just in the borders of the country that is trying to make the standard?And if a country decides that something is wrong, say abortion, does another country have the right to tell them they are wrong for thinking that?I actually would like the idea of the majority getting to set all the rules, since I'm a Christian and we are the vast majority in this country. Or do you expect us to let you guys continue spreading your progaganda that is directly opposite from what you are trying to preach? That what is considered wrong by the majority is the law of the land? That pesky constiution thing sure must bother you guys, it gets to say what is right and wrong no matter what every single person in the country thinks. Your idea of morality is a cute catch phrase, but even you guys don't live by it. You pretend you want the anarchistic legality of majority rule, while living safely behind a curtain of protection offered to you from Judeo-Christian founded principles found in our constitution. But the parasitic nature of atheism is a topic we've already covered.

geez, like crow says. Quit making our point. Right and wrong is subjective. If you are arguing against that you might as well be arguing that a square is a circle. I also laughed how you tried to backhand politics and atheism into the argument in an inverted way.

i was making the point that murder, genocide etc, were in the name of an "objective" standard considered moral at one time, and now are generally not.and that applies to the whole world, not just christians. those things have gradually come to be considered immoral only through collective social experience.obviously humanity never was in touch with any pre-existing objective moral standard.

BG- Can you please give us an example of humanity being in touch with a pre-existing moral standard? You know, evidence to back up your point.Heck, make it easy. Let us know what the pre-existing moral standard is. You talk to God, ask him.

[Randy Reed 0]

Thinking more about this i've come to the realization that most religons were born of fear, or specifically asan explanation for the unexplained, primarily death. I used to believe that humankind's biggest fear was death.I've recently changed my mind though. The more I see BG defend and attempt to incite people with illogical rantings trying to defend his nonsense i've decided that humankinds biggest fear is reality.People spend most of their existence deluding themselves or trying to distract themselves from reality.