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ESPN posted a list created by John Hollinger of the greatest franchises in NBA history.Here are the rankings... what do you guys think? * No. 1: Los Angeles Lakers * No. 2: Boston Celtics * No. 3: San Antonio Spurs * No. 4: Chicago Bulls * No. 5: Phoenix Suns * No. 6: Philadelphia 76ers * No. 7: Utah Jazz * No. 8: Portland Trail Blazers * No. 9: Indiana Pacers * No. 10: Houston Rockets * No. 11: Milwaukee Bucks * No. 12: Oklahoma City Thunder * No. 13: Detroit Pistons * No. 14: Miami Heat * No. 15: Orlando Magic * No. 16: New York Knicks * No. 17: Dallas Mavericks * No. 18: Denver Nuggets * No. 19: Cleveland Cavaliers * No. 20: Golden State Warriors * No. 21: New Jersey Nets * No. 22: Atlanta Hawks * No. 23: Washington Wizards * No. 24: New Orleans Hornets * No. 25: Sacramento Kings * No. 26: Minnesota Timberwolves * No. 27: Toronto Raptors * No. 28: Charlotte Bobcats * No. 29: Los Angeles Clippers * No. 30: Memphis Grizzlies

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How could the Spurs be above the Bulls?Oklahoma City?Denver should be higherDetroit should be higher than Milwaukee - it's been forever since KareemUtah should be lower just because of their nickname

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How could the Spurs be above the Bulls?Oklahoma City?Denver should be higherDetroit should be higher than Milwaukee - it's been forever since KareemUtah should be lower just because of their nickname
That includes the Sonics...Milwaukee had really good teams in the 80's that were overshadowed by the Celtics/76ers teams that people forget about.
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ESPN posted a list created by John Hollinger of the greatest franchises in NBA history.Here are the rankings... what do you guys think? * No. 1: Los Angeles Lakers * No. 2: Boston Celtics * No. 3: San Antonio Spurs * No. 4: Chicago Bulls * No. 5: Phoenix Suns * No. 6: Philadelphia 76ers * No. 7: Utah Jazz * No. 8: Portland Trail Blazers * No. 9: Indiana Pacers * No. 10: Houston Rockets * No. 11: Milwaukee Bucks * No. 12: Oklahoma City Thunder * No. 13: Detroit Pistons * No. 14: Miami Heat * No. 15: Orlando Magic * No. 16: New York Knicks * No. 17: Dallas Mavericks * No. 18: Denver Nuggets * No. 19: Cleveland Cavaliers * No. 20: Golden State Warriors * No. 21: New Jersey Nets * No. 22: Atlanta Hawks * No. 23: Washington Wizards * No. 24: New Orleans Hornets * No. 25: Sacramento Kings * No. 26: Minnesota Timberwolves * No. 27: Toronto Raptors * No. 28: Charlotte Bobcats * No. 29: Los Angeles Clippers * No. 30: Memphis Grizzlies
the tunder number 12 seriously? after many inept years in seattle, and the fact that they had to move doesnt that put them down the line?also i think the Nets are too high along with the wizards, and i think the hornets should be higher up
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How could the Spurs be above the Bulls?Denver should be higherDetroit should be higher than Milwaukee - it's been forever since Kareem
Because if it wasn't for Jordan, the Bulls would be dead last, while the Spurs have almost always been good.Why should Denver be higher? They've never done anything. Ever. This year was like their best year. Ever.No way.
the tunder number 12 seriously? after many inept years in seattle, and the fact that they had to move doesnt that put them down the line?also i think the Nets are too high along with the wizards, and i think the hornets should be higher up
This is all wrong.
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ESPN posted a list created by John Hollinger of the greatest franchises in NBA history.Here are the rankings... what do you guys think? * No. 1: Los Angeles Lakers * No. 2: Boston Celtics * No. 3: San Antonio Spurs * No. 4: Chicago Bulls * No. 5: Phoenix Suns * No. 6: Philadelphia 76ers * No. 7: Utah Jazz * No. 8: Portland Trail Blazers * No. 9: Indiana Pacers * No. 10: Houston Rockets * No. 11: Milwaukee Bucks * No. 12: Oklahoma City Thunder * No. 13: Detroit Pistons * No. 14: Miami Heat * No. 15: Orlando Magic * No. 16: New York Knicks * No. 17: Dallas Mavericks * No. 18: Denver Nuggets * No. 19: Cleveland Cavaliers * No. 20: Golden State Warriors * No. 21: New Jersey Nets * No. 22: Atlanta Hawks * No. 23: Washington Wizards * No. 24: New Orleans Hornets * No. 25: Sacramento Kings * No. 26: Minnesota Timberwolves * No. 27: Toronto Raptors * No. 28: Charlotte Bobcats * No. 29: Los Angeles Clippers * No. 30: Memphis Grizzlies
Top 4 seem about right. I feel like Detroit should be higher considering the recent record plus the Isiah years.I think the Clippers should be below Memphis. Ya, the Griz have sucked but Jay Leno made a good point in his last episode of the Tonight Show. In the 17 years on the show the Clippers have consistently sucked forever...it's almost mathematically impossible for them to suck so bad. 39 years in the NBA without a championship, conference or division title is pretty amazing. Grizzlies have been terrible but under some pretty horrible situations for the franchise and much less years in the league.
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I understand he tried to make this list as objective as possible, but the "Intangibles" points just seem absurd to me.Lakers get +150 for "an endless stream of superstars"Celitcs get +50 for having the "deepest tradition in the league"Bulls get +100 for having JordanIt just seems to me that having the deepest tradition in the league should be worth more than having a lot of really good players. Also, it's not like Boston is any slouch in that department either. All stars, LA has 125 and Boston has 128.

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The clippers should be last. They are the worst organization in american sports history.
Thought I put that in my post, this is correct also. Memphis is not old enough to combat the years of suck that is the Clippers.
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Thought I put that in my post, this is correct also. Memphis is not old enough to combat the years of suck that is the Clippers.
When they were the Buffalo Braves they had some pretty interesting teams with Bob MacAdoo and a bunch of other fun players.
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I think it is actually a very solid list. Miami over the Knicks makes me smile. That is a commentary on how bad the knicks have been lately.Bulls are #4 solely on the strength of the Jordan era.I feel like the best argument is lakers v. celtics. that one is 50/50 for me.

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Some minor tweaks. I think Bulls should be 3, Portland should be above the Jazz, and the Knicks should be higher because of what they used to mean to the league.
I agree with all this plus what Bigd said about the Clips. Detroit is also way too low. I think Dallas is actually too high...they were horrendously bad for a dozen or so years straight IIRC. The hawks are a little low. I'd have Cleveland up there with Miami and Orlando too.
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Nobody thinks Phoenix is wayyyy too high?They've never even won anything. Only even been in the finals twice.
There is a steep drop from #4 to everyone else. Phoenix does seem high but I can think of who I would put above them.Detroit seems really low.
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There is a steep drop from #4 to everyone else. Phoenix does seem high but I can think of who I would put above them.Detroit seems really low.
Anyone with a championship imo.
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ESPN posted a list created by John Hollinger of the greatest franchises in NBA history.Here are the rankings... what do you guys think? * No. 1: Boston Celtics * No. 2: Los Angeles Lakers * No. 3: Chicago Bulls * No. 4: San Antonio Spurs * No. 5: Phoenix Suns * No. 6: Philadelphia 76ers * No. 7: Utah Jazz * No. 8: Portland Trail Blazers * No. 9: Indiana Pacers * No. 10: Houston Rockets * No. 11: Milwaukee Bucks * No. 12: Oklahoma City Thunder * No. 13: Detroit Pistons * No. 14: Miami Heat * No. 15: Orlando Magic * No. 16: New York Knicks * No. 17: Dallas Mavericks * No. 18: Denver Nuggets * No. 19: Cleveland Cavaliers * No. 20: Golden State Warriors * No. 21: New Jersey Nets * No. 22: Atlanta Hawks * No. 23: Washington Wizards * No. 24: New Orleans Hornets * No. 25: Sacramento Kings * No. 26: Minnesota Timberwolves * No. 27: Toronto Raptors * No. 28: Charlotte Bobcats * No. 29: Los Angeles Clippers * No. 30: Memphis Grizzlies
Fixed their post. This list is pretty off base. The Pistons at #13 and the Phoenix Suns at #5? Did a 14 year old retarded kid make this list???
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Fixed their post. This list is pretty off base. The Pistons at #13 and the Phoenix Suns at #5? Did a 14 year old retarded kid make this list???
Detroit > than Oklahoma, Milwaukee, and Indiana.
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Looks like the intangibles hurt the Pistons and boosted Phoenix.Detroit

13. DETROIT PISTONS: 49.19 POINTS PER SEASON (1948-2009)Wins: 2,368Playoff wins: 182Series wins: 44Titles: 3All-Stars: 101Best player: Isiah ThomasBest coach: Chuck DalyBest team: 1988-89 (63-19, won title) Intangibles: -50. Palace Brawl leaves stain; slow-paced teams lacked excitement.
Phoenix
5. PHOENIX SUNS: 57.85 POINTS PER SEASON (1968-2009)Wins: 1,860Playoff wins: 120Series wins: 26Titles: 0All-Stars: 59Best player: Charles BarkleyBest coach: Mike D'AntoniBest team: 1992-93 (62-20, lost NBA Finals)Intangibles: +50. Consistently entertaining teams with remarkably few knuckleheads.
Oklahoma/Seattle
12. OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER: 50.05 POINTS PER SEASON (1967-2009)Wins: 1,768Playoff wins: 105Series wins: 24Titles: 1All-Stars: 49Best player: Gary PaytonBest coach: George KarlBest team: 1995-96 (64-18, lost NBA Finals)
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Are there any definitions for the intangibles? I don't care if a team has fewer knuckleheads or is more entertaining (at least as it pertains to this list). All that really matters is winning.Detroit > Phoenix also.Phoenix out of the top 10, Detroit and Philly at 5 and 6.I'm a Laker fan, but question them at number 1. Intangibles strike again.

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A problem I see is the value he places on regular season wins."Regular-season wins are worth one point. This is the source of 82 percent of the points in this system, but it matters much more for noncontending teams."This could explain some of the odd rankings. For example the Suns have averaged 43 wins/season and the Pistons have averaged 40/season.

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Looks like the intangibles hurt the Pistons and boosted Phoenix.DetroitPhoenixOklahoma/Seattle
I'm sorry ESPN, but intangibles doesn't define what makes a team great, championship banners do. The Pistons have 3 and and the Suns/Sonics/Thunder have a combined zero. /thread
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I'm sorry ESPN, but intangibles doesn't define what makes a team great, championship banners do. The Pistons have 3 and and the Suns/Sonics/Thunder have a combined zero. /thread
The Sonics won a title. Learn your history.
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I'm sorry ESPN, but intangibles doesn't define what makes a team great, championship banners do. The Pistons have 3 and and the Suns/Sonics/Thunder have a combined zero. /thread
Lenny Wilkins won a title coaching the sonics, fish.God i ****ing hate intangibles, I think in normal sports discussion they are pukey, anti-logical, bullshit arguments around, and in this case it's no exception. -50 for a brawl? GTFO. +50 for a franchise that's won exactly zero other than underserving MVP awards by their best player ( 1 for Barkley 2 for Nash). GTFO. This shit tilts me more than it should.
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