Krownkickin_FTW 0 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.50 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (SB) (t8205)BB (t11085)UTG (t4257)MP (t2101)CO (t1109)Button (t4025)Hero's M: 36.47Preflop: Hero is SB with J, 74 folds, Hero calls t75, BB checksFlop: (t300) 7, 7, K(2 players)Hero bets t175, BB raises to t450, Hero raises to t999, BB calls t549Turn: (t2298) Q(2 players)Hero bets t1000, BB calls t1000River: (t4298) A(2 players)Hero bets t1200, BB raises to t3600, Hero calls t2400Total pot: t11498Does anyone think this call is bad, i mean does he have a 7 for a chop or a strange bluff enough of the time for this to be ok? Link to post Share on other sites
SGFULTON83 0 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 You could see a wide range of hands here, especially with the villian being in the BB. We put ourselves in a tricky spot on the river with the small 3-bet on the flop and small bet on the turn. We could have realistically been all-in on the turn with bigger raising on the flop, but as played I think you have to call considering the money you put in already. Also I don't like limping in with J7, but thats a different story. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Completing this pre was a bad plan. It's an easy fold and move on. Post flop, bet the turn harder. Link to post Share on other sites
KoRnholio 2 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 He probably just got there with JhTh because you didn't bet the turn hard enough. Link to post Share on other sites
dreamcrusher28 0 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Completing this pre was a bad plan. It's an easy fold and move on. Post flop, bet the turn harder.This. You should be watching this hand take place, not posting about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Krownkickin_FTW 0 Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 The complete in the small blind and lead on the flop is something ive been trying out after Jason Somerville and Daniel suggested it for tournaments on PVT so this play isnt dependant on my cards fwiw, so everything after the lead is pretty much all i was wondering about. I do realize my 3 bet on the flop was small along with my turn bet. I dont think its realistic I can be allin by turn. I just couldnt figure out what cards he was playing this way. If he had a 7x im throwing my hands in the air an say what can u do and call,but other than that and exactly JhTh like someone said what hands can conceivably be in the villians range by the river. I honestly tanked on the river for at least 30 seconds and came up with KK, AA,QQ, and missed hearts bluff raise over my defensive looking river bet. Villian rolls over AA and i cried Link to post Share on other sites
Flushgarden 0 Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 I have no problem with completing pre and leading any flop. You definitely should have bet more on the turn though, and if you're gonna 3bet that flop then it should have been bigger as well. Link to post Share on other sites
MovingIn 0 Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 This. You should be watching this hand take place, not posting about it.Well, to nitpick, if he hadn't completed, he wouldn't be watching anything. The BB would collect and we'd move on to the next hand.Completing and playing this hand isn't bad, though only if you believe villain would spew here to defend his position in a BvB hand. What does villain check pre and fire away with raises at us with? This is a place where we could use a read of some sort, because with no reads I'm nervous about a better 7. If this was a LAGish opponent, I'd give those aggro flop and river raises no credence. But if this is a more careful player, I'd slow down.That aside, as played, not bad until the turn. That turn bet needs to be more like 2000 if you're going to lead there. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.50 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (SB) (t8205)BB (t11085)UTG (t4257)MP (t2101)CO (t1109)Button (t4025)Hero's M: 36.47Preflop: Hero is SB with J, 74 folds, Hero calls t75, BB checksFlop: (t300) 7, 7, K(2 players)Hero bets t175, BB raises to t450, Hero raises to t999, BB calls t549Turn: (t2298) Q(2 players)Hero bets t1000, BB calls t1000River: (t4298) A(2 players)Hero bets t1200, BB raises to t3600, Hero calls t2400Total pot: t11498Does anyone think this call is bad, i mean does he have a 7 for a chop or a strange bluff enough of the time for this to be ok?I haven't played many tourneys lately, but as I see it, the problem with this hand is COMPLETING THE SB instead of RAISNG THE SB preflop. Why would you ever complete instead of raise? Link to post Share on other sites
Fade2241 0 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I haven't played many tourneys lately, but as I see it, the problem with this hand is COMPLETING THE SB instead of RAISNG THE SB preflop. Why would you ever complete instead of raise?I agree. I raise this 100% of the time if i am going to play the hand against the other big stack. As played I simply raise more on the flop and look to bet him out on the turn. That Qs puts a lot of backdoor draws out there so i am looking to overbet the pot and make him pay heavily to see the river. Link to post Share on other sites
tbrick412 0 Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 raise big on the flop, bet more on the turn imo Link to post Share on other sites
TraptSteve 0 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I agree. I raise this 100% of the time if i am going to play the hand against the other big stack. As played I simply raise more on the flop and look to bet him out on the turn. That Qs puts a lot of backdoor draws out there so i am looking to overbet the pot and make him pay heavily to see the river.If the BB is half-way decent, he starts 3-betting your small blind raises. Now what? Continue raising from the SB 100% of the time, occasionally 4-betting preflop... or tighten up considerably from the SB, making your play equally obvious.I don't mind completing from the SB on occasion , esp when you could simply lead the flop. Nothing wrong with mixing up your play in similar situations. The absolute nature of "I do it 100%" the time in poker just bugs me. Situations in poker are often similar but rarely exactly the same. Link to post Share on other sites
gadjet 11 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I agree that your wrong decisions are here:1.)Pre it's either a fold or raise situation... completing is your last option and only when you're mixing your play.2.) After reraising on the flop you are deciding your hand is best? which is fine, but then your bet on the turn especially with the draws the turn brings needs to be bigger. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If the BB is half-way decent, he starts 3-betting your small blind raises. Now what? Continue raising from the SB 100% of the time, occasionally 4-betting preflop... or tighten up considerably from the SB, making your play equally obvious.I don't mind completing from the SB on occasion , esp when you could simply lead the flop. Nothing wrong with mixing up your play in similar situations. The absolute nature of "I do it 100%" the time in poker just bugs me. Situations in poker are often similar but rarely exactly the same.We don't raise every SB. That would be silly. Unless he folds all the time. Then it would be smart. And, if we make him mad, he may blindly raise our raises. Then we catch a hand and stack him. Tourneys are easy.Besides, the 3 bet the flop on this hand sucks. WTF, villain has shown he wants to get involved. So let's involve him. Link to post Share on other sites
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