Kurt Warner Hof?

[Sam Donaldson 0]

He has the 2nd highest career passer rating of all-time right now. Ahead of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Joe Montana (and everyone else except Steve Young).

He's also played less games than any of those quarterbacks

Do his 'bad' years include leading the Giants to a 6-2 record in 2004 before being benched in favor of Eli Manning?

6 touchdowns and 4 interceptions in 10 games, so yeah.

[brvheart 1,752]

Chicago Tribune, BEFORE the game....If Kurt Warner doesn't get in Hall of Fame, it's a shameIs the Cardinals quarterback a Hall of Famer? In a word: YesTAMPA — If Kurt Warner is not a lock for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, it is because of the NFL's failures—not his.NFL teams failed to see his ability when he came out of Northern Iowa in 1994 so he wasn't drafted.The Green Bay Packers signed him as a free agent, but failed to coach him properly or develop him. Or see his potential. They gave up on him without ever allowing him to throw a pass in a game.Five years later the Rams finally drew the best from Warner, harnessing his magic in two Super Bowl trips. But when he struggled with injury, they failed to stick with him, benching him after the 2003 season opener and cutting him the following June.The Giants signed him, but failed to make a commitment to him—coach Tom Coughlin later admitted he thought he should have played Eli Manning ahead of Warner from the start. They also failed to give Warner the kind of offensive system he needed to be successful.The rest of the NFL failed Warner again after the Giants cut him in 2005. The best he could do was a one-year, $4 million contract from the Cardinals.Then the Cardinals failed to realize what they had in Warner, trying repeatedly to replace him with Matt Leinart.But coach Ken Whisenhunt had the good sense to trust the game tape and give the ball to Warner at the start of this season. The result: Warner is in the Super Bowl for the third time in his career.Some people still think Warner is not worthy of the Hall. He is, in my opinion, and no one would even be able to contest it if the NFL had not failed to realize what he is over and over again.The argument against Warner being a Hall of Famer is he only has had five outstanding seasons. He has not been consistently great for as many seasons as many in the Hall. But I would contend a lot of that has been out of his control.It is true Warner went through a five-year dark period in his career where his production was below average. But this was largely the result of injuries, being misused and not being trusted. It was as if the NFL thought the clock had struck midnight and the Cinderella story was over. The logic went something like this: see, we were right on this guy all along.NBC's Cris Collinsworth wasn't surprised Warner struggled with the Giants."He was in the wrong offense," he said. "Think about it. Where has he been successful? Where they spread it all out, fight the blitz, let Kurt read it, get it out of his hands and make plays. The Giants are a running team, they want to use play action, throw it 20 yards downfield. When he plays in that style of offense, it doesn't work."Warner always has been at his best in domes, where his career passer rating is 103.4 compared to 83 outdoors. So what was he doing playing in Giants Stadium, which is notorious for being one of the most difficult places to throw the ball?If NFL teams ever had realized what Warner was and enhanced what he does best, Warner very well could have had 10 or 12 great seasons by now."He needed to find a place where they knew what he was and just trusted him," former Rams coach Mike Martz said. "That's what happened [in Phoenix]."Martz believes Warner affects the Cardinals more than any other player affected his team in the postseason. And he is right. When Warner has been at his best, no quarterback I have seen has been better.There are a lot of ways the Steelers can end up holding the Lombardi Trophy. There is only one way for the Cardinals to do it—with Warner having a dominant performance against the best defense in football."Getting here with this football team was enough for Kurt Warner to make the Hall of Fame," said Collinsworth, a former Pro Bowl receiver. "Maybe if he would have gotten here with the New York Giants I would have not said that's a lock. But to take the Arizona Cardinals to a Super Bowl? I think most people would admit they are not here without him. He's kind of put them on his back and carried them."And if you didn't believe he was a Hall of Famer before, you should now.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Steve young PCT64.3 yrds33,124 TD232 INT107 QB Rating 96.8 65.4 28,591 182 114 93.8These are extremely comparable, particularly considering Kurt Warner isn't retiring yet. I guess it depends on what you think deserves to be in the hall of fame. Do you want a player who is a little better than average, but puts in consistant performances, year after year.. or do you want to reward truly excellent players, even if their longevity isn't as great. Football isn't baseball, or basketball. In baseball, it's pretty much about career stats.. but in Football, eras are so different, and the game is so violent, that you can't just consider career numbers. I think Kurt Warner has 4 truly great seasons ( not 3 as Donalason is maintaining) and he had 3 other seasons where he started over half the games and had a QB rating over 85. But what really puts him over the top is his play off numbers that put him over the top. He is one of the greatest Play off quarterbacks I've ever seen, and If i had to win one play off game, I'd take a peak Kurt warner over a peak any QB in the league right now, except brady. This includes Brett Farve and Peyton Manning. I think that, if nothing else, makes him fame worthy.

[Sam Donaldson 0]

Chicago Tribune, BEFORE the game....The argument against Warner being a Hall of Famer is he only has had five outstanding seasons. He has not been consistently great for as many seasons as many in the Hall. But I would contend a lot of that has been out of his control.It is true Warner went through a five-year dark period in his career where his production was below average. But this was largely the result of injuries, being misused and not being trusted. It was as if the NFL thought the clock had struck midnight and the Cinderella story was over. The logic went something like this: see, we were right on this guy all along.

I'd like to know where those 2 other 'outstanding' seasons are. As far as injuries, every player has injuries, Warner is no exception. Warner needs at least two more good years to make it.

[fryer98 30]

From MMQB on si.com...John Elway played in five Super Bowls. Joe Montana played in four. Kurt Warner has played in three -- and has thrown for more yards than both Montana and Elway.In 12 quarters, Warner has passed for 1,156 yards, the most in Super Bowl history. In 16 quarters, Montana threw for 1,142. In 20 quarters, Elway threw for 1,128.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'd like to know where those 2 other 'outstanding' seasons are. As far as injuries, every player has injuries, Warner is no exception. Warner needs at least two more good years to make it.

I'd love to bet anything you wanted to wager that Warner is going into the hall.his other two great seasons....2000 (the year in between his superbowl years) he had a QB passer rating of 99 and lead the rams to a 10-6 record and a play off app.and last season, with the cardinals, he started 11 games, and had a passer rating of 90 ( and was the number 1 Fantasy QB in the second half of last season ( yes, including Tom Brady)). Just because you weren't paying attention last season, doesn't mean he wasn't excellent. Also, the fact that Warner has taken two of the NFL's worst franchises to superbowls isn't something that you should just blow off. The Cardinal's last won a playoffgame in the Turman administration.

[El Guapo 8]

I think after this season he is in, before that it was questionable.I am pretty sure we already discussed this, but what about Terrel Davis?

[Sam Donaldson 0]

I'd love to bet anything you wanted to wager that Warner is going into the hall.his other two great seasons....2000 (the year in between his superbowl years) he had a QB passer rating of 99 and lead the rams to a 10-6 record and a play off app.and last season, with the cardinals, he started 11 games, and had a passer rating of 90 ( and was the number 1 Fantasy QB in the second half of last season ( yes, including Tom Brady)). Just because you weren't paying attention last season, doesn't mean he wasn't excellent. Also, the fact that Warner has taken two of the NFL's worst franchises to superbowls isn't something that you should just blow off. The Cardinal's last won a playoffgame in the Turman administration.

I had to take a screen shot because the copy/paste fucks up the alignment. You think playing 11 games and throwing 21 TDs and 18 INT in 11 games in 2000 is great? An 89.9 rating in 2007 is 'excellent'? Those are average numbers, I don't know what you're looking at.As far as him actually making the hof, I think he will, though I don't think he should.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I think after this season he is in, before that it was questionable.I am pretty sure we already discussed this, but what about Terrel Davis?

After he retired, I was more inclined to put him in than I am now. He had a very truly spectacular seasons, leading the broncos to the superbowl twice. However, as I see Shannahan play mix and match with running backs over the years, plugging in jouneymen backs into his system, and all of them doing well, I wonder how much of his production was based on the offensive blocking scheme. That said, he's peak was so high, that if he's even close to getting in, I think he should get in.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I had to take a screen shot because the copy/paste fucks up the alignment. You think playing 11 games and throwing 21 TDs and 18 INT in 11 games in 2000 is great? An 89.9 rating in 2007 is 'excellent'? Those are average numbers, I don't know what you're looking at.As far as him actually making the hof, I think he will, though I don't think he should.

a 98 passer rating with 311 yards per game is not average, you're ****ing high on crack, and just blindly hating now.And a 90 percent passer rating is not average either. I don't know what league you think you watch, where average QB's put up 350 yard, 30 TD-10 Int seasons, but it's not the NFL.

[Sam Donaldson 0]

a 98 passer rating with 311 yards per game is not average, you're ****ing high on crack, and just blindly hating now.And a 90 percent passer rating is not average either. I don't know what league you think you watch, where average QB's put up 350 yard, 30 TD-10 Int seasons, but it's not the NFL.

Sample size too small, that has been my argument the whole time, and I don't blindly hate on anything.

[TAGteam 0]

he and fitzgerald were the reason they even made it to the superbowl this year. definitely wasnt Edge. i say he makes because of "character" and a few great seasons. dont think he should though. hes like the jim rice of football.

[byaaatch 0]

so if Warner isn't hof worthy how is this guy:games 140Att 3762Comp 1886Comp % 50.1Yards 27663TD 173Int 220Rating 65.5 He has one superbowl title.

[El Guapo 8]

so if Warner isn't hof worthy how is this guy:games 140Att 3762Comp 1886Comp % 50.1Yards 27663TD 173Int 220Rating 65.5 He has one superbowl title.

Bolded numbers are not HOF worthy, but I am guessing this is someone already in based on the way you have done this.

[Oziumrules 0]

so if Warner isn't hof worthy how is this guy:games 140Att 3762Comp 1886Comp % 50.1Yards 27663TD 173Int 220Rating 65.5 He has one superbowl title.

But he guaranteed a win !

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Sample size too small, that has been my argument the whole time, and I don't blindly hate on anything.

LOLWhen you pick two stats you don't like from a season ( and 21-18 over 10 games isn't bad, btw) but ignore the stats that show Warner's excellence (311 YpG and a 98 passer rating), you might not be blind, but you certainly need vision correction.

[byaaatch 0]

But he guaranteed a win !

and then he hit on suzi kulber

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

In 11 playoff games, Warner averages 306 yards, 2.4 TD's, 1.2 INT's, and a passer rating of 98.9. That's pretty much all I have to say about the issue.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Joe Naimith is an excellent example of a QB who is in the Hall of Fame for considerations beyond statistical ones. He deserves to be in the hall, btw.

[byaaatch 0]

Joe Naimith is an excellent example of a QB who is in the Hall of Fame for considerations beyond statistical ones. He deserves to be in the hall, btw.

See for me the only true thing I can see are number, being that I wasn't alive when Naimith played. Growing up hear these stories about Naimith and I thought he was better than sliced bread. however you take a step back and look at his stats and you really have to wonder. Did he have that extra intangible thing? Was it just because he was MR. Hollywood?

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

See for me the only true thing I can see are number, being that I wasn't alive when Naimith played. Growing up hear these stories about Naimith and I thought he was better than sliced bread. however you take a step back and look at his stats and you really have to wonder. Did he have that extra intangible thing? Was it just because he was MR. Hollywood?

No, it's not just that.. but I mean, being a star is part of it. Joe Naimith was the first qb to throw for 4000 yards in a season (and these were 14 game seasons) QB ratings, for all quarterbacks, were much lower during that era. But, most importantly, the jet's win in superbowl 3 completely legitimized the AFL. It's still the greatest upset in superbowl history. Some moments are just so big, that they carry a person to greatness. Naimith's career was injury plagued, and his stats are probably the worst of any QB in the hall. But he was bigger than the game, and I think players like that should be in the hall. Honestly, for the same reason, I think Bo Jackson should be in the hall of fame. His statistics don't capture what a dominant player he was when he was on the field.

[byaaatch 0]

No, it's not just that.. but I mean, being a star is part of it. Joe Naimith was the first qb to throw for 4000 yards in a season (and these were 14 game seasons) QB ratings, for all quarterbacks, were much lower during that era. But, most importantly, the jet's win in superbowl 3 completely legitimized the AFL. It's still the greatest upset in superbowl history. Some moments are just so big, that they carry a person to greatness. Naimith's career was injury plagued, and his stats are probably the worst of any QB in the hall. But he was bigger than the game, and I think players like that should be in the hall. Honestly, for the same reason, I think Bo Jackson should be in the hall of fame. His statistics don't capture what a dominant player he was when he was on the field.

See with bo jackson I agree with you because he was one of the most dominant players while he played. And its just too bad that injury stopped him from playing longer

[brvheart 1,752]

See with bo jackson I agree with you because he was one of the most dominant players while he played. And its just too bad that injury stopped him from playing longer

That's BigD's whole point, Bitch. He is saying that Kurt Warner is absolutely dominant in his position. Can you imagine if Kurt was playing for the Steelers? 62-3 would have been the final.

[El Guapo 8]

I completely disagree with Bo. Not only did the injury limit him to only 4 seasons, he never played more than 11 games a year because of baseball. Rushing Receiving Year Age Tm Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G YScm RRTD Fmb1987 25 RAI FB 7 5 81 554 4 91 6.8 79.1 11.6 16 136 8.5 2 23 2.3 19.4 690 6 21988 26 RAI FB 10 9 136 580 3 25 4.3 58.0 13.6 9 79 8.8 0 27 0.9 7.9 659 3 51989 27 RAI RB 11 9 173 950 4 92 5.5 86.4 15.7 9 69 7.7 0 20 0.8 6.3 1019 4 11990* 28 RAI 10 0 125 698 5 88 5.6 69.8 12.5 6 68 11.3 0 18 0.6 6.8 766 5 3Career 38 23 515 2782 16 92 5.4 73.2 13.6 40 352 8.8 2 27 1.1 9.3 3134 18 11

[brvheart 1,752]

I completely disagree with Bo. Not only did the injury limit him to only 4 seasons, he never played more than 11 games a year because of baseball. Rushing Receiving Year Age Tm Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G YScm RRTD Fmb1987 25 RAI FB 7 5 81 554 4 91 6.8 79.1 11.6 16 136 8.5 2 23 2.3 19.4 690 6 21988 26 RAI FB 10 9 136 580 3 25 4.3 58.0 13.6 9 79 8.8 0 27 0.9 7.9 659 3 51989 27 RAI RB 11 9 173 950 4 92 5.5 86.4 15.7 9 69 7.7 0 20 0.8 6.3 1019 4 11990* 28 RAI 10 0 125 698 5 88 5.6 69.8 12.5 6 68 11.3 0 18 0.6 6.8 766 5 3Career 38 23 515 2782 16 92 5.4 73.2 13.6 40 352 8.8 2 27 1.1 9.3 3134 18 11

dang.. its SO sucky that he got hurt. 1000 yards in 11 games is so awesome.