Mixed Game Challenge Thread

[jmbreslin 0]

So I guess this is your guys way of making a difficult day even worse?

C'mon, I don't want to be the only one playing Razz. The game is definitely frustrating but it has to be profitable. Most players don't know what the hell they're doing, and yet it's by far the easiest game to grasp strat-wise.Here's my basic Razz strat:1) Only play hands with 3 cards 8 or below, unless: (i) my 3-card 9 or T is still better than all the upcards; (2) I'll raise to steal the antes+bring-in with virtually anything if it's folded to me; (3) very occasionally I'll play a low paired hand, like [A2]2 if I can get heads-up and dump on 4th if things don't go my way2) The more duplicates and live cards there are for your hand, the more aggressive you can be3) Always look for ways to get heads-up - this is like Commandment #1 for Razz4) Dump rough 7's and 8's in multi-way pots, especially if there's a raise in front - in fact, I'll often dump marginal starters facing a raise in front unless I'm confident I can get HU against the raiser5) When HU: drive the betting when my upcards are ahead of his, regardless of what I have buried; bet when villain has paired his upcards or hit high cards; bet when I can represent a strong hand (e.g., I have [A3]65 and pair my Ace on 5th).6) When multi-way: play more cautiously; only bet when I'm ahead of all villains or if I'm confident a bet can get me HU7) When HU and I've hit bad on 7th but villain hasn't been playing back at me, bet 7th about 95% of the time - it's amazing how often people will fold on the end for one more bet

[Cappy37 0]

speaking of o8, i'm playing a bit of low limit LO8 today to mix things up, and it literally makes me want to stab my eyes out. the button mashing is just utterly ****ing amazing. i don't even think that half my opponents know the rules of the game, and yet somehow i'm stuck 20BB or so. LOL.

no lie. When you run good though, it's glorious.. I'm up like 7 buy ins at .50/1 over the last day or so.. Literally doubled my bankroll.The button mashing dynamic changes from table to table.. I'll be playing 2 at once, one where I'll be value-raising over a limp parade, and another where people are literally stealing blinds. Of course I doubt you're playing on Stars.

[Cappy37 0]

C'mon, I don't want to be the only one playing Razz. The game is definitely frustrating but it has to be profitable. Most players don't know what the hell they're doing, and yet it's by far the easiest game to grasp strat-wise.Here's my basic Razz strat:1. ) I bet until they fold

fyp. And I don't think I've ever folded a rough 7 in my life before 5th.From what I've seen lately, even the donkeys are using (AJ)5 as the new "premium raising hand", so folding hidden eights isn't that great of an idea either. Bring-in defense is also all the rage. I love people who defend their bring-in with zeal.

[checkymcfold 0]

no lie. When you run good though, it's glorious.. I'm up like 7 buy ins at .50/1 over the last day or so.. Literally doubled my bankroll.The button mashing dynamic changes from table to table.. I'll be playing 2 at once, one where I'll be value-raising over a limp parade, and another where people are literally stealing blinds. Of course I doubt you're playing on Stars.

since i posted that, i actually made some hands, and scooped some pots over some utterly ridiculous holdings. like, these idiots are so bad that i valuebet top two pair on the end on a 4-broadway, 3-diamond board because i knew i'd get called by worse. i was called by top and bottom pair.

fyp. And I don't think I've ever folded a rough 7 in my life before 5th.From what I've seen lately, even the donkeys are using (AJ)5 as the new "premium raising hand", so folding hidden eights isn't that great of an idea either. Bring-in defense is also all the rage. I love people who defend their bring-in with zeal.

the fyp is more correct, imo, at stakes where people understand the basics of the game but are incapable of understanding that people that fire relentlessly may not have it all the time and that they should adapt. at microstakes, jmbreslin's post probably outlines a better approach.

[jmbreslin 0]

fyp. And I don't think I've ever folded a rough 7 in my life before 5th.From what I've seen lately, even the donkeys are using (AJ)5 as the new "premium raising hand", so folding hidden eights isn't that great of an idea either.

In multi-way pots rough 7's and 8's don't have much value, unless you know you're up against all junky hands like (AJ)5. Throw one or two decent hands into the mix and you're not getting anywhere. The only time I'll play rough 7's and 8's multi-way is if there are several duplicates to my hand on the board.

[checkymcfold 0]

In multi-way pots rough 7's and 8's don't have much value, unless you know you're up against all junky hands like (AJ)5. Throw one or two decent hands into the mix and you're not getting anywhere. The only time I'll play rough 7's and 8's multi-way is if there are several duplicates to my hand on the board.

a 7 is basically the nuts, generally.not, that is, that you can even speak about stud games in "general" terms. the problem with doing that is that it implies that you can play stud games without regard for the information that's sitting there in front of you. in stud variants, the information is ALWAYS more important than the cards you actually hold. indeed, you could probably play most razz and stud hi games totally blind to your hole cards profitably if you knew what you were doing. in any case, it's really important to understand that saying stuff like "rough sevens and eights don't have much value" isn't really the right way of thinking about the game.like, a rough 7 or 8 has a ton of value if there are only 3-4 low door cards out. a rough 8 has not a lot of value if everyone has a low door card and only one or two pairs you.aaaaand after a brief not-retarded run, o8 is back to making me suicidal. lol. i can't believe that playing 2/4 o8 against inbred pieces of shit is putting me on such unreal monkey tilt.

[jmbreslin 0]

a 7 is basically the nuts, generally.

Completed 7's, yes, but I was referring to 3-card starting combinations.

not, that is, that you can even speak about stud games in "general" terms. the problem with doing that is that it implies that you can play stud games without regard for the information that's sitting there in front of you. in stud variants, the information is ALWAYS more important than the cards you actually hold. indeed, you could probably play most razz and stud hi games totally blind to your hole cards profitably if you knew what you were doing. in any case, it's really important to understand that saying stuff like "rough sevens and eights don't have much value" isn't really the right way of thinking about the game.like, a rough 7 or 8 has a ton of value if there are only 3-4 low door cards out. a rough 8 has not a lot of value if everyone has a low door card and only one or two pairs you.

Point taken about general terms. But general strategies are always a starting point, and I've tried to account for some of the particulars in my post. As for your last point, when I talk about rough 7's against in multi-way pots, I'm assuming all the villains involved have low door cards. Obviously a rough 7 has significant value if you're in a hand with 3 villains all showing high cards. But that's not going to happen very often, if at all.

[jmbreslin 0]

One interesting tidbit about duplicates...In a HU confrontation, A23 is about 60/40 vs a rough 8 like 568. However, with each duplicate card on the board the 568 gains about 3% equity. Three duplicates brings the rough 8 into a coinflip with the A23 hand. Just goes to show the impact of duplicate cards.

[DVD ROTS 0]

I've just begun playing microstakes Razz at FT. I'm two-tabling for the two-table points bonus, but I don't know that it's the greatest idea ever, because I've got such little experience at playing stud games. But the games are ridiculously juicy if you have some discipline.ETA: I just need to stop trying to bluff people, which happens after a while in session. You can't bluff people when they don't know the rules of the game.

[Cappy37 0]

since i posted that, i actually made some hands, and scooped some pots over some utterly ridiculous holdings. like, these idiots are so bad that i valuebet top two pair on the end on a 4-broadway, 3-diamond board because i knew i'd get called by worse. i was called by top and bottom pair.

Amen.

the fyp is more correct, imo, at stakes where people understand the basics of the game but are incapable of understanding that people that fire relentlessly may not have it all the time and that they should adapt. at microstakes, jmbreslin's post probably outlines a better approach.

The one huge adjustment for micros is to constantly remind yourself to stop trying to come from behind, because it is so unnecessary at the micro stakes. I just shudder to think of folding rough sevens in games where people are open limping 9s and Ts under the gun.

[sealster 0]

no lie. When you run good though, it's glorious.. I'm up like 7 buy ins at .50/1 over the last day or so.. Literally doubled my bankroll.The button mashing dynamic changes from table to table.. I'll be playing 2 at once, one where I'll be value-raising over a limp parade, and another where people are literally stealing blinds. Of course I doubt you're playing on Stars.

You better stay at .5/1 or better yet move back down to .25/.5, these games are unbeatable I say, unbeatable! I don't need competent players at my tables, especially with your ugly avatar.

[jmbreslin 0]

I've just begun playing microstakes Razz at FT. I'm two-tabling for the two-table points bonus, but I don't know that it's the greatest idea ever, because I've got such little experience at playing stud games. But the games are ridiculously juicy if you have some discipline.ETA: I just need to stop trying to bluff people, which happens after a while in session. You can't bluff people when they don't know the rules of the game.

What's your screenname on Tilt? I'm doing the same thing right now. The play is absolutely terrible. I'm finding that the only time I lose pots is when I raise and drive hands but have to eventually fold when the draw hits me badly. It's a rare occasion that I lose at showdown.As for bluffing, it actually works very well in Razz in the right spots. It's very easy to represent hands you don't have and to take advantage of when your opponent draws badly. Which just reinforces the importance of playing pots heads-up.

[Cappy37 0]

You better stay at .5/1 or better yet move back down to .25/.5, these games are unbeatable I say, unbeatable! I don't need competent players at my tables, especially with your ugly avatar.

Rofl.. I saw you today, you sat down with position on me at .5/1. I'm kinda debating if I wanna make a 5day sprint toward silverstar. I only need 1300 fpps and should be able to get in 5 hours of 4-5 tabling in a night and a couple hours of 4tabling during the day. heh.

[DVD ROTS 0]

What's your screenname on Tilt? I'm doing the same thing right now. The play is absolutely terrible. I'm finding that the only time I lose pots is when I raise and drive hands but have to eventually fold when the draw hits me badly. It's a rare occasion that I lose at showdown.As for bluffing, it actually works very well in Razz in the right spots. It's very easy to represent hands you don't have and to take advantage of when your opponent draws badly. Which just reinforces the importance of playing pots heads-up.

Same as my handle here. I actually saw you at one of my tables earlier. I've got midterms tomorrow, so I think I'm done for today, but yeah, if I'm playing well, it's pretty difficult to have a bad session. I've only played maybe five or six over the past few days, though.Re: bluffing, yeah, it works in certain spots... I just made some impressively dumb plays today.

[checkymcfold 0]

One interesting tidbit about duplicates...In a HU confrontation, A23 is about 60/40 vs a rough 8 like 568. However, with each duplicate card on the board the 568 gains about 3% equity. Three duplicates brings the rough 8 into a coinflip with the A23 hand. Just goes to show the impact of duplicate cards.

both players hit duplicate cards less than 8% of the time.

[sealster 0]

Rofl.. I saw you today, you sat down with position on me at .5/1. I'm kinda debating if I wanna make a 5day sprint toward silverstar. I only need 1300 fpps and should be able to get in 5 hours of 4-5 tabling in a night and a couple hours of 4tabling during the day. heh.

Yeah I couldn't resist taking the seat on your left, you're a megafish to me running -30.88bb/100 over the 17 hands you played before you left! I should be napping instead of playing sessions at the time but the tables looked too damn juicy. Why waste your time for silverstar the few extra fpps mean nothing. But I know how stars ropes you into this shit, I might actually be dumb enough to try and retain nova for the year by getting there in 6 months meh

[Cappy37 0]

Yeah I couldn't resist taking the seat on your left, you're a megafish to me running -30.88bb/100 over the 17 hands you played before you left! I should be napping instead of playing sessions at the time but the tables looked too damn juicy. Why waste your time for silverstar the few extra fpps mean nothing. But I know how stars ropes you into this shit, I might actually be dumb enough to try and retain nova for the year by getting there in 6 months meh

lol I was seriously running -30bb on that table? How? I was up half a buy in over the 3 tables I was playing at the time, and I never dipped 6 dolla below starting stack. What program are you using?

[Cappy37 0]

2 things:1.) Playing like a maniac can get you paid off against *all* odds on your monsters.2.) Sometimes you simply *have* to check.PokerStars Game #24321460871: HORSE (Razz Limit, $0.50/$1.00) - 2009/01/27 3:49:45 ETTable 'Jiangxi III' 8-maxSeat 1: SCTrojans ($19 in chips) Seat 2: Fossilman ($19.60 in chips) Seat 3: LadyMaverick ($24.40 in chips) Seat 4: Cappy37 ($26.85 in chips) Seat 5: KidPoker ($16.60 in chips) Seat 6: Money800 ($32.20 in chips) Seat 7: mig.com ($23.10 in chips) Seat 8: ElkY ($22.75 in chips) KidPoker: posts the ante $0.05Money800: posts the ante $0.05mig.com: posts the ante $0.05ElkY: posts the ante $0.05SCTrojans: posts the ante $0.05Fossilman: posts the ante $0.05LadyMaverick: posts the ante $0.05Cappy37: posts the ante $0.05*** 3rd STREET ***Dealt to SCTrojans [:]Dealt to Fossilman [:]Dealt to LadyMaverick [:]Dealt to Cappy37 [: :]Dealt to KidPoker [:]Dealt to Money800 [:]Dealt to mig.com [:]Dealt to ElkY [:]SCTrojans: brings in for $0.25Fossilman: raises $0.25 to $0.50LadyMaverick: folds Cappy37: raises $0.50 to $1KidPoker: folds Money800: folds mig.com: raises $0.50 to $1.50ElkY: calls $1.50SCTrojans: folds Fossilman: calls $1Cappy37: calls $0.50*** 4th STREET ***Dealt to Fossilman [:] [:]Dealt to Cappy37 [: :] [:]Dealt to mig.com [:] [:]Dealt to ElkY [:] [:]Cappy37: bets $0.50mig.com: calls $0.50ElkY: calls $0.50Fossilman: calls $0.50*** 5th STREET ***Dealt to Fossilman [:] [:]Dealt to Cappy37 [: : : :] [:]Dealt to mig.com [: :] [:]Dealt to ElkY [: :] [:]Cappy37: checks mig.com: checks ElkY: checks Fossilman: checks *** 6th STREET ***Dealt to Fossilman [: : :] [:]Dealt to Cappy37 [: : : : :] [:]Dealt to mig.com [: : :] [:]Dealt to ElkY [: : :] [:]Cappy37: bets $1mig.com: calls $1ElkY: folds Fossilman: calls $1*** RIVER ***Dealt to Cappy37 [: : : 5c: : :] [:]Cappy37: bets $1mig.com: folds Fossilman: calls $1*** SHOW DOWN ***Cappy37: shows [: : : : : : :] (Lo: 5,4,3,2,A)Fossilman: mucks hand Cappy37 collected $13.15 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $13.65 | Rake $0.50 Seat 2: Fossilman mucked [: : : : : : :]Seat 4: Cappy37 showed [3c 2h 7s 5c As 4h 9d] and won ($13.15) with Lo: 5,4,3,2,A

[checkymcfold 0]

lol, how are you in that game

[Cappy37 0]

lol, how are you in that game

Well, since I decided to change the names to protect my "favorite players", I decided to go nuts with the "Replace All" names for sheer amusement value.

[checkymcfold 0]

Well, since I decided to change the names to protect my "favorite players", I decided to go nuts with the "Replace All" names for sheer amusement value.

haha, it worked on me, but i'm pretty drunk, so don't get a big head about it

[Pdiddydog 0]

haha, it worked on me, but i'm pretty drunk, so don't get a big head about it

I feel bad now worked on me and I'm sober

[jmbreslin 0]

Same as my handle here. I actually saw you at one of my tables earlier. I've got midterms tomorrow, so I think I'm done for today, but yeah, if I'm playing well, it's pretty difficult to have a bad session. I've only played maybe five or six over the past few days, though.Re: bluffing, yeah, it works in certain spots... I just made some impressively dumb plays today.

I'll keep an eye out for you. I usually play between 8 and 10pm eastern.

[jmbreslin 0]

2 things:1.) Playing like a maniac can get you paid off against *all* odds on your monsters.2.) Sometimes you simply *have* to check.PokerStars Game #24321460871: HORSE (Razz Limit, $0.50/$1.00) - 2009/01/27 3:49:45 ETTable 'Jiangxi III' 8-maxSeat 1: SCTrojans ($19 in chips) Seat 2: Fossilman ($19.60 in chips) Seat 3: LadyMaverick ($24.40 in chips) Seat 4: Cappy37 ($26.85 in chips) Seat 5: KidPoker ($16.60 in chips) Seat 6: Money800 ($32.20 in chips) Seat 7: mig.com ($23.10 in chips) Seat 8: ElkY ($22.75 in chips) KidPoker: posts the ante $0.05Money800: posts the ante $0.05mig.com: posts the ante $0.05ElkY: posts the ante $0.05SCTrojans: posts the ante $0.05Fossilman: posts the ante $0.05LadyMaverick: posts the ante $0.05Cappy37: posts the ante $0.05*** 3rd STREET ***Dealt to SCTrojans [:]Dealt to Fossilman [:]Dealt to LadyMaverick [:]Dealt to Cappy37 [: :]Dealt to KidPoker [:]Dealt to Money800 [:]Dealt to mig.com [:]Dealt to ElkY [:]SCTrojans: brings in for $0.25Fossilman: raises $0.25 to $0.50LadyMaverick: folds Cappy37: raises $0.50 to $1KidPoker: folds Money800: folds mig.com: raises $0.50 to $1.50ElkY: calls $1.50SCTrojans: folds Fossilman: calls $1Cappy37: calls $0.50*** 4th STREET ***Dealt to Fossilman [:] [:]Dealt to Cappy37 [: :] [:]Dealt to mig.com [:] [:]Dealt to ElkY [:] [:]Cappy37: bets $0.50mig.com: calls $0.50ElkY: calls $0.50Fossilman: calls $0.50*** 5th STREET ***Dealt to Fossilman [:] [:]Dealt to Cappy37 [: : : :] [:]Dealt to mig.com [: :] [:]Dealt to ElkY [: :] [:]Cappy37: checks mig.com: checks ElkY: checks Fossilman: checks *** 6th STREET ***Dealt to Fossilman [: : :] [:]Dealt to Cappy37 [: : : : :] [:]Dealt to mig.com [: : :] [:]Dealt to ElkY [: : :] [:]Cappy37: bets $1mig.com: calls $1ElkY: folds Fossilman: calls $1*** RIVER ***Dealt to Cappy37 [: : : 5c: : :] [:]Cappy37: bets $1mig.com: folds Fossilman: calls $1*** SHOW DOWN ***Cappy37: shows [: : : : : : :] (Lo: 5,4,3,2,A)Fossilman: mucks hand Cappy37 collected $13.15 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $13.65 | Rake $0.50 Seat 2: Fossilman mucked [: : : : : : :]Seat 4: Cappy37 showed [3c 2h 7s 5c As 4h 9d] and won ($13.15) with Lo: 5,4,3,2,A

Interesting maneuver with the check on 5th. Trying to represent paired Aces, or just giving them a chance to catch something they'd call bets with? It's so rare to find yourself in a situation like that where you're so far ahead of several opponents that you can actually afford to give them a free card.

[jmbreslin 0]

I just ran your hand through twodimes. Even if you give all villains the best possible hand they could have, you're still about 90% to win on 5th. Nice.