Bristol Palin Pregnant @ 17

[copernicus 0]

Bologna. #1 - Her family situation may be relevant to her ability to do her job. Ask the same question about a man sometime and I'll believe thats your real reason.#2 - Since her values are under scrutiny, the effects of those values and the extent to which they are expressed in her family are relevant to the discussion. Her daughters pregnancy has nothing to do with her values, and youre own messiah told you so.#3 - They trotted the family out on stage at the press conference to show what a great family woman she was...but then as soon as the family is not looking so good, it's all off limits? Yes its off limits. What didnt you understand about BHOs message? If you want to introduce family into the election than Michelle Obaby and BHOs lineage are far more damning than a teen pregnancy.

Youre starting to sound like a kook-aid drinker, vb. shame on you.

[vbnautilus 48]

Ask the same question about a man sometime and I'll believe thats your real reason.

I do not presume the same roles in child rearing for men and women, why should I?

Her daughters pregnancy has nothing to do with her values, and youre own messiah told you so.

Again, bologna. How she runs her family, what she teaches her daughters, and how she handles situations that arise with them has pretty much everything to do with her values. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am an Obama supporter?

What didnt you understand about BHOs message? If you want to introduce family into the election than Michelle Obaby and BHOs lineage are far more damning than a teen pregnancy.

I disagree with Obama's statement. But let's be real here, obviously he has to say that. I don't get what you are implying about his "lineage".

Youre starting to sound like a kook-aid drinker, vb. shame on you.

Whose kool-aid? You yourself point out how my position is different from Obama's in the same message!We happen to be interviewing someone for a job. If you think her family situation is irrelevant in making that decision it is your right to ignore it. But if I think it's relevant, I am free to use that information in my decision-making process.

[copernicus 0]

We happen to be interviewing someone for a job. If you think her family situation is irrelevant in making that decision it is your right to ignore it. But if I think it's relevant, I am free to use that information in my decision-making process.

You arent even legally allowed to ASK her family situation and if you somehow discover it you most certainly are not allowed to use it or you will face a discrmination law suit you will lose unless it is DIRECTLY RELATED TO THEIR ABILITY TO PEFORM THE JOB, not just "relevant". Her family situation is in no way relevant to her ability to perform this job. If someone were interviewing for Senior VP of Marketing at a major company, a job that involves significant travel, public speaking, late nights and significant pressure to peform, marital/family questions are most definitely illegal.

[copernicus 0]

I do not presume the same roles in child rearing for men and women, why should I? Again, bologna. How she runs her family, what she teaches her daughters, and how she handles situations that arise with them has pretty much everything to do with her values. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am an Obama supporter? I disagree with Obama's statement. But let's be real here, obviously he has to say that. I don't get what you are implying about his "lineage". Whose kool-aid? You yourself point out how my position is different from Obama's in the same message!We happen to be interviewing someone for a job. If you think her family situation is irrelevant in making that decision it is your right to ignore it. But if I think it's relevant, I am free to use that information in my decision-making process.

the DailyKos kool-aid.lineage wasnt the right word...his parenting...or lack thereof, certainly has greater impact on his makeup than a teen daughters pregancy does on SPs and is more relevant to his capacity to peform the job of POTUS.

[jmkiser 0]

My personal belief is that the family subject shouldn't be discussed unless it could possibly be an issue. Just like ANY job for that matter.If her husband is going to, personally, take care of major situations as they arise and it won't affect Palin, then awesome. If these major situations are GOING to take her away from her duties, then, obviously we have problems. If the job of VP or POTUS was as unimportant as a drive-thru operator at McDonald's, then I don't think most people would care. Too bad, it's not.And, of course, that shouldn't apply only Palin, it should apply to ALL candidates for these highest position. If Biden, McCain, or Obama can't accomplish their duties because of family problems, then they shouldn't be the VP or POTUS.That's only my opinion, though.I, also, don't think vb was referring to lineage issues. I think vb was talking about what I just mentioned.

[vbnautilus 48]

You arent even legally allowed to ASK her family situation and if you somehow discover it you most certainly are not allowed to use it or you will face a discrmination law suit you will lose unless it is DIRECTLY RELATED TO THEIR ABILITY TO PEFORM THE JOB, not just "relevant". Her family situation is in no way relevant to her ability to perform this job. If someone were interviewing for Senior VP of Marketing at a major company, a job that involves significant travel, public speaking, late nights and significant pressure to peform, marital/family questions are most definitely illegal.

I guess I'd better hire a lawyer!You are applying the job interview analogy incorrectly; the laws governing how a company decides who to hire for their VP obviously do not apply to a democratic election. The relevant part of the analogy was that it is me who gets to decide who I want. And in the case of an election I can do it based on any criteria I choose, and thankfully you cannot decide for me what is relevant and what is not. For instance, I happen to find (as I think I have described in this forum elsewhere) that of the most important factors in the decision for me is information which is embedded in the movements a candidate makes. How they hold their body, how they carry themselves physically tells me much more about them then their written policies do. The micro-expressions in their face..I think that kind of information comes from a deeper source than the content of their speech. It's this kind of information I use to determine what kind of person I am dealing with, the same way I do at the poker table. You're going to tell me that since it is not directly related to their ability to perform the job I can't use it? Nonsense.

[vbnautilus 48]

the DailyKos kool-aid.lineage wasnt the right word...his parenting...or lack thereof, certainly has greater impact on his makeup than a teen daughters pregancy does on SPs and is more relevant to his capacity to peform the job of POTUS.

I had to google DailyKos to find out what it was. No, pigeonholing me like that is just laziness. I think knowing the facts of how Obama was raised is equally fair game, and I agree that it may be very informative about who he is.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

We happen to be interviewing someone for a job. If you think her family situation is irrelevant in making that decision it is your right to ignore it. But if I think it's relevant, I am free to use that information in my decision-making process.

Then you would be breaking the law.

[irishguy 14]

There was nothing to "get ahead" of. Its a family issue that has absolutely no bearing on the election and is nobodys gd business. If the real haters out there hadnt perpetuated ridiculous stories about the baby being the daughters there would have been no reason to discuss it one way or the other.

It is nobody's business but yet John Edwards getting laid was everybodys business. Do I think it matters, no. But it does contrast a lot of the values that she stands for it would've been much safer for this to have been brought up and released by her/ the McCain camp before it came out in an ugly manner.

You arent even legally allowed to ASK her family situation and if you somehow discover it you most certainly are not allowed to use it or you will face a discrmination law suit you will lose unless it is DIRECTLY RELATED TO THEIR ABILITY TO PEFORM THE JOB, not just "relevant".

For many people who oversee hiring issues other then whats on a resume come into play. You are not "allowed" to use these reasons but you often do and just don't walk around telling people that these were the reasons. It's just one of those facts of the world it isn't always fair but it is what it is. I interviewed for a job a short while ago one in which I suspect there weren't many people with my level of experience interviewing for. This was in a customer service driven business and I had talked with the person who was going to be interviewing me twice on the phone and was led to believe that meeting in person was simply a formality.When I walked into the business to meet with him I encountered some incredibly attractive woman and a group of guys who likely maxed out at five food ten, and all reaked of "metero". At six foot four two hundred and fifty pounds with a shaved head I knew right then that I wouldn't be hired.Is it discrimination? Perhaps but it is what it is and I'm guilty of doing the same thing from the other side of the deck.

[vbnautilus 48]

Then you would be breaking the law.

Everyone really got hung up on this red herring. I'm not breaking the law if I use knowledge about her family to decide whether or not to vote for her. Also, was John McCain's vp team breaking the law when they asked her about her family during the vetting process?

[Sheiky 0]

Holy crap everytime I read about this story I want to bang my head against the nearest wall, the fact pathetic stories like these are regulary in the media makes me think the world population is even dumber than I previously thought they were.

[Sheiky 0]

There was nothing to "get ahead" of. Its a family issue that has absolutely no bearing on the election and is nobodys gd business. If the real haters out there hadnt perpetuated ridiculous stories about the baby being the daughters there would have been no reason to discuss it one way or the other.

QFT

[Nimue1995 1]

I'm actually more concerned about the Troopergate incident also. It shows an attitude that this state has been dealing with for years. Our own ex governor Judy Martz was involved in a similar style incident. Admittedly it was a more serious incident and ultimately led to her not running for a second term. But it was similar in that it showed a disregard for the law and a cover-up. Her (Judy Martz's) chief policy adviser, Shane Hedges, was involved in a drunk driving accident near Marysville, Montana in August 2001, after which he went to Martz's residence, where she washed his clothes. House Majority Leader Paul Sliter died in the accident. Martz's policy advisor promptly resigned and pled guilty to a charge of negligent homicide. (wikipedia)Haven't we had enough of political hirings and firings based on the us and them mentality from the Bush administration?

[RDog 0]

You arent even legally allowed to ASK her family situation and if you somehow discover it you most certainly are not allowed to use it or you will face a discrmination law suit you will lose unless it is DIRECTLY RELATED TO THEIR ABILITY TO PEFORM THE JOB, not just "relevant". Her family situation is in no way relevant to her ability to perform this job. If someone were interviewing for Senior VP of Marketing at a major company, a job that involves significant travel, public speaking, late nights and significant pressure to peform, marital/family questions are most definitely illegal.

LMAO @ comparing being Vice President of the United States to a regular employment interview where you actually have to worry about those things. Just Wow.

[RDog 0]

Then you would be breaking the law.

I guess you and Cop better toss in the trash that you know how old McCain and Obama are and act like you never heard it then.

[Sal Paradise 57]

I guess you and Cop better toss in the trash that you know how old McCain and Obama are and act like you never heard it then.

you do realize that when in a job interview, a candidate's age, sex, and race are quite clearly visible, right? it is perfectly OK to know these things; what is illegal in the hiring process is making the decision BASED on these things.in the few posts of yours I've seen, you're understanding of "things" is quite minimal.

[timwakefield 68]

LMAO @ comparing being Vice President of the United States to a regular employment interview where you actually have to worry about those things. Just Wow.

LMAO @ the idea that there is not a large sector of jobs where your background and personal life and public image are taken into account. Read: any politician ever.Double LMAO @ people saying her family life and personal life are personal and a non-issue, and triple LMAO @ people saying that because Obama said it's nothing we should agree that it's nothing and not try to use it to smear her. REPUBLICANS: DEMOCRATS WANT TO WIN, REALLY REALLY BADLY THIS TIME. REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE A MONOPOLY ON MIS-INFORMATION OR PROPAGANDA. Now because I'm certain somebody will quote that and imply that I'm implying that people on this board (myself even) are lying and conniving - that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that of course Obama himself is going to take the moral high-ground, just like he and McCain and W. and Kerry and everybody does when there is dirt on their opponent. Of course their party is going to run with it and try to make whatever issue they can out of it, and of course the candidate is going to pretend like that offends him. COME ON!

[RDog 0]

you do realize that when in a job interview, a candidate's age, sex, and race are quite clearly visible, right? it is perfectly OK to know these things; what is illegal in the hiring process is making the decision BASED on these things.in the few posts of yours I've seen, you're understanding of "things" is quite minimal.

LOL, I love how any time someone doesn't post things EXACTLY the way you want to see them you immediately attack their intelligence. So you couldn't tell from my post that I was merely pointing out that comparing VB's analysis of conducting a job interview for VP and then people comparing that to a regular job interview is way off base? Or more likely, you understood that and just wanted to be an ******* anyway.

[copernicus 0]

It is nobody's business but yet John Edwards getting laid was everybodys business. Do I think it matters, no. But it does contrast a lot of the values that she stands for it would've been much safer for this to have been brought up and released by her/ the McCain camp before it came out in an ugly manner.For many people who oversee hiring issues other then whats on a resume come into play. You are not "allowed" to use these reasons but you often do and just don't walk around telling people that these were the reasons.It's just one of those facts of the world it isn't always fair but it is what it is. I interviewed for a job a short while ago one in which I suspect there weren't many people with my level of experience interviewing for. This was in a customer service driven business and I had talked with the person who was going to be interviewing me twice on the phone and was led to believe that meeting in person was simply a formality.When I walked into the business to meet with him I encountered some incredibly attractive woman and a group of guys who likely maxed out at five food ten, and all reaked of "metero". At six foot four two hundred and fifty pounds with a shaved head I knew right then that I wouldn't be hired.Is it discrimination? Perhaps but it is what it is and I'm guilty of doing the same thing from the other side of the deck.

If somebody is stupid enough to put that kind of information on their resume then thats good enough reason not to hire them!

[copernicus 0]

Everyone really got hung up on this red herring. I'm not breaking the law if I use knowledge about her family to decide whether or not to vote for her. Also, was John McCain's vp team breaking the law when they asked her about her family during the vetting process?

Youre the one who started the red herring! There was no "part of the analogy" that was relevant.Obv he wasnt since it wasnt a job interview.

[copernicus 0]

I'm actually more concerned about the Troopergate incident also. It shows an attitude that this state has been dealing with for years. Our own ex governor Judy Martz was involved in a similar style incident. Admittedly it was a more serious incident and ultimately led to her not running for a second term. But it was similar in that it showed a disregard for the law and a cover-up. Her (Judy Martz's) chief policy adviser, Shane Hedges, was involved in a drunk driving accident near Marysville, Montana in August 2001, after which he went to Martz's residence, where she washed his clothes. House Majority Leader Paul Sliter died in the accident. Martz's policy advisor promptly resigned and pled guilty to a charge of negligent homicide. (wikipedia)Haven't we had enough of political hirings and firings based on the us and them mentality from the Bush administration?

Troopergate is more hyped up nonsense. The guy was negligent on the job, including drinking on the job, tasered his stepson, threatened to kill Palins father. Its the "good ole boy" and union mentality that was keeping him on the job despite being unfit. She would have been irresponsbile to not bring pressure for his removal.

[copernicus 0]

LMAO @ comparing being Vice President of the United States to a regular employment interview where you actually have to worry about those things. Just Wow.

then quote vb, hes the one who raised it.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

then quote vb, hes the one who raised it.

Bingo I was just pointing out if he used that info in his hiring process as he said he did then he was breaking the law. I did not reference it to a voter deciding on a candidate.

[vbnautilus 48]

then quote vb, hes the one who raised it.

Bingo I was just pointing out if he used that info in his hiring process as he said he did then he was breaking the law. I did not reference it to a voter deciding on a candidate.

That's quite a pretzel of rhetoric going there. I never brought up the legal restrictions of a job interview. If you think the phrase "interview" was irrelevant, why bring up all that stuff about what's legally admissible in a job interview? All that about not directly relevant to job performance nonsense -- what was the point of all that? Look how Palin's acceptance speech went:GOV. SARAH PALIN ®, ALASKA: Thank you so much.And I thank you, Senator McCain, and Mrs. McCain, for the confidence that you’ve placed in me. Senator, I am honored to be chosen as your running mate. I will be honored to serve next to the next president of the United States.I know that when Senator McCain gave me this opportunity, he had a short list of highly qualified men and women. And to have made that list at all, it was a privilege. And to have been chosen brings a great challenge. I know that it will demand the best that I have to give. And I promise nothing less.First, there are a few people whom I would like you to meet. I want to start with my husband Todd. And Todd and I are actually celebrating our 20th anniversary today. And I promised him — I had promised Todd a little surprise for the anniversary present and hopefully he knows that I did deliver.And then we have, after my husband, who is a lifelong commercial fisherman. Lifetime Alaskan. He’s a production operator. Todd is a production operator in the oil fields up on Alaska’s north slopes and he’s a proud member of the United Steal Workers’ Union and he’s a world champion snow machine racer. Todd and I met way back in high school. And I can tell you that he is still the man that I admire most in this world.Along the way, Todd and I have shared many blessings. And four out of five of them are here with us today. Our oldest son, Track, he’ll be follow the presidential campaign from afar. On September 11th of last year, our son enlisted in the United States Army. Track now serves in an infantry brigade. And on September 11th, Track will deploy to Iraq in the service of his country. And Todd and I are so proud of him and of all the fine men and women serving the country.CROWD: USA. USA. USA.PALIN: Next to Todd is our daughter, Bristol, another daughter, Willow, our youngest daughter, Piper, and over in their arms is our son Trig, a beautiful baby boy. He was born just in April. His name is Traig Paxson Van Palin.Some of life’s greatest opportunities comes unexpectedly. And this is certainly the case today. I never really set out to be involved in public affairs, much less to run for this office. My mom and dad both worked at the local elementary school and my husband and I, we both grew up working with our hands.I was just your average hockey mom in Alaska. We’re busy raising our kids and serving as the team mom and coaching some basketball on the side. I got involved in the PTA and then was elected to the city council. And then elected mayor of my hometown, where my agenda was to stop wasteful spending and cut property taxes and put the people first. I was then appointed ethics commissioner and chairman of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission. And when I found corruption there, I fought it hard and I held the offenders to account. Along with fellow reformers in the great state of Alaska, as governor I stood up to the old politics as usual, to the special interests, to the lobbyists, the big oil companies, and the good old boy network. When oil and gas prices went up so dramatically, and the state revenues followed with that increase, I sent a large share of that revenue directly back to the people of Alaska. And we are now embarking on a $40 billion natural gas pipeline to help lead America to energy independence.If her family is so off-limits and irrelevant, why is this the first thing she tells us about herself?? You can't have it both ways. She clearly thinks her family reflects on her, which is why she brought it up. Now when it doesn't make her look so good, it's none of our business.

[copernicus 0]

We happen to be interviewing someone for a job. If you think her family situation is irrelevant in making that decision it is your right to ignore it. But if I think it's relevant, I am free to use that information in my decision-making process.

This is what you said. YOU used the word interview, YOU claimed it is your right to ignore it and use that information. YOU were wrong in the context of an interview. We responded to that because we didnt expect you to raise an analogy that you now claim is irrelevant. Your logic is more akin to a Mobius strip than a pretzel, endlessly turning back on itself.