greatwhite 0 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Discuss. Link to post Share on other sites
TommyGavin81 0 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 WHAT!?!? Link to post Share on other sites
Sal Paradise 57 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 OKAY! Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=78990 Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 OKAY!Don't you like popsicles? Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Discuss.No.. they aren't Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Well... there ya have it. Conclusive 1 fer1 agin Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 There's a lot of data that points to certain medicines that induce many of these NDE and these medicines are common in trauma cases.So I would say that if they are true, they are for the individual, not for public proof. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 There's a lot of data that points to certain medicines that induce many of these NDE and these medicines are common in trauma cases.So I would say that if they are true, they are for the individual, not for public proof.how is a traumatized individual supposed to reliably distinguish between truth and psychosis without "public" proof? Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 how is a traumatized individual supposed to reliably distinguish between truth and psychosis without "public" proof?Maybe I explained it bad, or come from a different perspective.I meant even if they did die and have an afterlife experience, it isn't relative to anyone but themselves, ie not for the public. Link to post Share on other sites
SlapStick 0 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=78990 http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=126798 Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 I meant even if they did die and have an afterlife experience, it isn't relative to anyone but themselves, ie not for the public.there's nothing relative about it at all. NDE's are either factual experiences indicating there is an afterlife that everyone is subject to or they are the result of psychosis, and the only way to differentiate is to use objective science. certainly a traumatized individual has no way to differentiate without public (objective) help. same goes for any internal revelation of what is external reality. since it's an obvious fact that the mind/emotions can paint misleading pictures of external reality, without external public help an individual has no way to know if he's fooling himself or not.also kind of makes faith in general pointless. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 also kind of makes faith in general pointless.Pretty sure that there isn't anything in the known world that you can try to use to make this claim.It's kind of an obsession Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 there's nothing relative about it at all. NDE's are either factual experiences indicating there is an afterlife that everyone is subject to or they are the result of psychosis, and the only way to differentiate is to use objective science. certainly a traumatized individual has no way to differentiate without public (objective) help. same goes for any internal revelation of what is external reality. since it's an obvious fact that the mind/emotions can paint misleading pictures of external reality, without external public help an individual has no way to know if he's fooling himself or not.Sometimes I think you are pulling our legs. You want to use science to determine whether or not someone had a personal experience? You might as well make the claim that all truth will have to pass through you before it can be truth.I'll let you in on a secret, we don't care if somethings happen that we can't explain, makes life kind of fun. We don't have to worry that the whole world will think less of us for not really knowing something. And when I say 'we' I mean the rest of the world, not just Christians.certainly a traumatized individual has no way to differentiate without public (objective) help.LOL, of course, why can anyone think they can know what happened to them, without the help of modern science to tell them what it was. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 there's nothing relative about it at all. NDE's are either factual experiences indicating there is an afterlife that everyone is subject to or they are the result of psychosis, and the only way to differentiate is to use objective science. certainly a traumatized individual has no way to differentiate without public (objective) help. same goes for any internal revelation of what is external reality. since it's an obvious fact that the mind/emotions can paint misleading pictures of external reality, without external public help an individual has no way to know if he's fooling himself or not.also kind of makes faith in general pointless. Hi. I am arrogant, but I am fairly certain by reading this post that my arrogance pails in comparison. It's a testament to your faith in yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Pretty sure that there isn't anything in the known world that you can try to use to make this claim.i'm not making a claim, i'm stating the obvious. because individuals using strictly internal methods aren't capable of differentiating between truth and delusion, faith is effectively a useless method for an individual to reliably determine what is and isn't objective reality. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Sometimes I think you are pulling our legs. You want to use science to determine whether or not someone had a personal experience?no. i want to use science to determine whether personal experiences reflect objective reality or psychosis, since it's the only useful tool we have available to do the job.I'll let you in on a secret, we don't care if somethings happen that we can't explain, makes life kind of fun. We don't have to worry that the whole world will think less of us for not really knowing something. And when I say 'we' I mean the rest of the world, not just Christians.you lost me. what anyone cares about is irrelevant. the truth of NDE's is not a subjective issue, it's a scientific one. finding "fun" or some other personal subjective value in the experience has nothing to do with whether they are objectively real experiences or not.LOL, of course, why can anyone think they can know what happened to them, without the help of modern science to tell them what it was.for practical purposes they can't. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Hi. I am arrogant, but I am fairly certain by reading this post that my arrogance pails in comparison. It's a testament to your faith in yourself.what specifically are you disputing and why? Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 i'm not making a claim, i'm stating the obvious. because individuals using strictly internal methods aren't capable of differentiating between truth and delusion, faith is effectively a useless method for an individual to reliably determine what is and isn't objective reality.So if it happened to you, you would not know what it was until someone who it didn't happen too tells you what it was?Yea, you might want to get that looked at. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 no. i want to use science to determine whether personal experiences reflect objective reality or psychosis, since it's the only useful tool we have available to do the job.Only useful tool if you base all of life in scientific meathods maybe, not it's not even remotely all we have for those of us that let a little wonder fill our lives.you lost me. what anyone cares about is irrelevant. the truth of NDE's is not a subjective issue, it's a scientific one. finding "fun" or some other personal subjective value in the experience has nothing to do with whether they are objectively real experiences or not.So it's not for the public...I read that somewhere, I will wait for a scientist to tell me where though. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 So if it happened to you, you would not know what it was until someone who it didn't happen too tells you what it was?if by "someone" you mean external scientific verification, then yes. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 if by "someone" you mean external scientific verification, then yes.okay then, we know where you stand. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Only useful tool if you base all of life in scientific meathods maybe, not it's not even remotely all we have for those of us that let a little wonder fill our lives.while letting wonder fill your life might help you learn a lot about your own personal fulfillment or similar subjective issues, it is utterly useless in helping you determine whether NDE's are objective factual experiences or the result of psychosis.So it's not for the public...I read that somewhere, I will wait for a scientist to tell me where though.the truth to you of your feelings about NDE's is not a public matter. the truth of the actual NDE's themselves is. Link to post Share on other sites
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