RabidTortuga 0 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I have no idea what's going on here. When in doubt, raise, right? Poker StarsLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $1/$210 playersConverterPre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP3 with Q Q 3 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, MP1 calls.Flop: 9 A 8 (7.5SB, 2 players)MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls.Turn: Q (5.75BB, 2 players)MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls.River: 9 (9.75BB, 2 players)MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls.Results:Final pot: 13.75BB Link to post Share on other sites
KoRnholio 2 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Weak ace. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 what on earth is the question? Link to post Share on other sites
Biff Goods 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 he has AQ? Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 fold this flop. Link to post Share on other sites
RabidTortuga 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 fold this flop.Really? Why? He has to have an Ace? Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Really? Why? He has to have an Ace?if i thought he would do this without an ace i would figure his most likely hand that doesn't have an ace that i beat is a smaller pocket pair. if this is the case then raising makes no sense, let him blast away drawing at two outs. the flush draw is of no concern to me except kqs. against most players though, i think this is an ace often enough where if he is bluffing you off the best hand then nh sir. i dunno, are my ideas of his ranges way off here? Link to post Share on other sites
RabidTortuga 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 if i thought he would do this without an ace i would figure his most likely hand that doesn't have an ace that i beat is a smaller pocket pair. if this is the case then raising makes no sense, let him blast away drawing at two outs. This is the piece of the puzzle I overlooked. If he's betting a worse hand, I should let him keep betting. Of course, if he doesn't bet the turn, I bet?On the other hand, it's a drawy board. Is the flop raise worth vs the hands that are behind? I think I found this to be a strange spot because it looks like a WA/WB at a glance (ie when I'm 4-tabling), but If I'm ahead and he's leading the flop I'm almost never way ahead on this board because any draws he's betting are very live. Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 This is the piece of the puzzle I overlooked. If he's betting a worse hand, I should let him keep betting. Of course, if he doesn't bet the turn, I bet?On the other hand, it's a drawy board. Is the flop raise worth vs the hands that are behind? I think I found this to be a strange spot because it looks like a WA/WB at a glance (ie when I'm 4-tabling), but If I'm ahead and he's leading the flop I'm almost never way ahead on this board because any draws he's betting are very live.the preflop action makes the drawy-ness of this board almost completely irrelevant. what is he raising from there with maybe the exception of kqs that picks up a draw on that board? are people raising gapred suited broadways from there which could have a flush and or a gutshot? and more importantly, who bets a draw into a three better with an ace on the board, they might as well put a sign on their head that says "hi please raise me and minimize my equity in this pot".i am treating this as either a pair jacks or lower or Ax. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Imo..raising the flop is probably the worst optionI am still kind of torn between folding the flop and calling the flop and I think it becomes more player dependent. A lot of times this is a weaker ace though I have seen pairs do this as well. I think I could be talked into floating to the turn to see if there is any improvement in terms of the backdoor flush or straight draws. Link to post Share on other sites
RabidTortuga 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 Makes sense all around guys, thanks. I have to see if I had a note on this guy that made me do this next time I see him on Stars. I just saw the hand going through my last session and like I said in my OP, I have no idea what's going on here. That went for me as well as my opponent. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 I don't raise the flop.I think folding is a bit weak though, unless he's super nitty. Link to post Share on other sites
Speedy Petey 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Why do the OP's never tell us what the villian had? I have never played online, but isn't that info available on most hands? Very frustrating. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Why do the OP's never tell us what the villian had? I have never played online, but isn't that info available on most hands? Very frustrating.Because it's not relevant to strategy discussion. Link to post Share on other sites
Speedy Petey 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 but these threads in this forum are not very long and it would be nice to know if my read was correct based on the hand history. I think this info, given maybe 24 hours after the thread was originally posted, would help people with their game. Would allow me to know if my analysis was correct or if I was way off. My 2 cents. It is like reading a novel and the last chapter is missing. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 but these threads in this forum are not very long and it would be nice to know if my read was correct based on the hand history. I think this info, given maybe 24 hours after the thread was originally posted, would help people with their game. Would allow me to know if my analysis was correct or if I was way off. My 2 cents. It is like reading a novel and the last chapter is missing.24 hours is no where near long enough.I understand wanting to know if you read a guy right, but really, we should be putting them on a range anyways, and making plays based on that.Just fwiw. Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 I don't raise the flop.I think folding is a bit weak though, unless he's super nitty.whats the plan on the turn and the river then?i was thinking that against a lot of players you can call the flop and if they fire again on the turn you know they have an ace. i guess you would have had to have picked up on a pattern like that though. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Yup, something like that.Some guys you can go call, call, fold. Others you'll need to call, fold turn. Others you'll need to call, call, call. Link to post Share on other sites
RabidTortuga 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 Why do the OP's never tell us what the villian had? I have never played online, but isn't that info available on most hands? Very frustrating.The result of the hand has nothing to do with the correct way to play the hand. Posting results is counterproductive to strategy discussion because responses will inevitably be different when someone knows the result. In poker, results don't matter. making correct decisions matters.I would also be helpful for you to post you analysis of the hand so the rest of us can benefit from your read. I'll post the result in a day or two. I also have to look and see if I had a note on this player and how it may change the correct plays. Link to post Share on other sites
quadaces 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 fold this flop.NO. There is too much money in there already to fold just cause an A hit. Take a card off, if you dont improve on the turn, then you can fold. Link to post Share on other sites
RabidTortuga 0 Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 I just learned how to import payer notes into pokertracker. Do these notes change anything?Player was at 26/14/1.7 after 120 handsThese are my PS notes:Raised 44, QJo MPRaised 55 EP - No positional awarenessCalls any draw regardless odds. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 NO. There is too much money in there already to fold just cause an A hit. Take a card off, if you dont improve on the turn, then you can fold.Well, this is just poor thinking as well.If you're just going to fold when you don't improve on the turn, then fold the flop, because a large portion of our opponents will fire the turn here no matter what, and we certainly don't have the odds to draw to 2 outs.Certainly though, some players we can take that line, others we call two bets, others we call all 3. Link to post Share on other sites
Speedy Petey 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 The result of the hand has nothing to do with the correct way to play the hand. Posting results is counterproductive to strategy discussion because responses will inevitably be different when someone knows the result. In poker, results don't matter. making correct decisions matters.I would also be helpful for you to post you analysis of the hand so the rest of us can benefit from your read. I'll post the result in a day or two. I also have to look and see if I had a note on this player and how it may change the correct plays.thanks for the response, I can see your point. Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Sup guysI like folding this flop, too. I would raise the flop if I suspected foul play, though. Link to post Share on other sites
RabidTortuga 0 Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share Posted August 2, 2008 FWIW, I think the small stakes LHE games are getting better again. Maybe it's the WSOP on TV.Villian had K 4 :spade:I still think I spewed like a fool here, though. Link to post Share on other sites
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