Breaking Out Of A Slump

[jmbreslin 0]

A different example of why it's not so easy to capitalize on donkey mistakes. I had been playing a very tight game due to a serious lack of cards, and look at what this guy calls my push with.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (3 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero (t2454)Button (t7106)SB (t3940)Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 8. 1 fold, SB raises to t300, Hero raises to t2454, SB calls t2154.Flop: (t4983) T, 2, A(2 players)Turn: (t4983) Q(2 players)River: (t4983) 6(2 players)Final Pot: t4983Results:SB has Ah 5s (one pair, aces). Hero has 8c 8d (one pair, eights). Outcome: SB wins t4983.BBFIDTS, I know, but the point is to illustrate the kind of stupid calls that people at these stakes make.

[jmbreslin 0]

Okay, working on getting more aggressive ITM to try to accumulate chips. Two more 3rds and a 2nd (again) tonight.Bankroll: $314.37

[Solar 0]

One possible problem you may have (which I am slowly getting better at but still have) is betting your good hands for anough value. Playing tight and letting people hang themselves is an excellent sng strategy but the flipside is that you have to hammer home the winning hands. Play small pots OOP and big pots in position when you have the best hand. Sometimes you will be wrong and bustout earlier a few times, but you should also come into HU with a better chance.One question. Do you play 10 or 6 handed games? With 6 handed games sneaking into the last 2 or 3 with not much more than a starting stack still leaves you in a good position wheras with 10 handed you're way behind

[ajs510 122]

Swallow your pride and start chasing the chubbies. It's the only way to effectively bust a slump.

[king1305 0]

Don't take this the wrong way, falcon, but I don't put a whole lot of stock in posts that begin "I don't know much about this" and then go on to dole out advice.There are many people (usually newbies) on this site who love to quote textbook strategy ("the bubble is where the money is made") but you have to learn to adapt what you read to the actual tables. Many of the textbook strategies don't work at the micro stakes because those players don't play the way they're supposed to play. Aggressive stealing on the bubble doesn't work against players who don't understand the gap concept and aren't afraid to bust out, just like bluffing doesn't work against players who will call down with bottom pair on coordinated boards.

mln >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you at poker. I would highly recommend listening to things he says.You keep trying to make excuses for not moving up and saying it's some "newbie" idea. Basically, you have 300 buyins. 300. BUYINS. for $1 sngs. You could play $3 sngs and still have 100 buyins. 100 BUYINS. Hell you could probably play $5 sngs. The point is, if you want to grow as a player and get better, you need to be able to take risks to win money. You seem to be playing to "not lose" then to play to win.

[babylondonks 5]

There's a difference between not taking 'bad advice' and not taking advice. It took me a long long time to recognise that some people here actually know what they're talking about . It just really seems to me that you're refusing to take anybody's advice just because it goes against what you're doing. You're just really coming off as somebody who truly believes they know it all and refuse to try and improve themselves, I'd suggest you listen to people like mln and king, who totally rock socks.Also, in regards to above hand, we want that idiot calling our push with A5, just because we lost once doesn't mean it's -EV. And the fact is, I'm playing AQ even more aggro than either of those two players.

[jmbreslin 0]

One possible problem you may have (which I am slowly getting better at but still have) is betting your good hands for anough value. Playing tight and letting people hang themselves is an excellent sng strategy but the flipside is that you have to hammer home the winning hands. Play small pots OOP and big pots in position when you have the best hand. Sometimes you will be wrong and bustout earlier a few times, but you should also come into HU with a better chance.

You may be right about that. I've adopted more of a postflop small-ball strategy lately to keep pots under control (not including monsters, obviously), which may result in getting less value from hands like top pair or overpairs.

One question. Do you play 10 or 6 handed games? With 6 handed games sneaking into the last 2 or 3 with not much more than a starting stack still leaves you in a good position wheras with 10 handed you're way behind

9-handed. I stopped playing 6-max SnGs for two reasons: (1) they're turbos and I prefer regular speed SnGs; and (2) I was never able to put together a solid ROI because you have to win a decent % of them to be profitable. You are right, though, that stacks are always closer to each other at the end of 6-maxes.

[jmbreslin 0]

mln >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you at poker. I would highly recommend listening to things he says.You keep trying to make excuses for not moving up and saying it's some "newbie" idea. Basically, you have 300 buyins. 300. BUYINS. for $1 sngs. You could play $3 sngs and still have 100 buyins. 100 BUYINS. Hell you could probably play $5 sngs. The point is, if you want to grow as a player and get better, you need to be able to take risks to win money. You seem to be playing to "not lose" then to play to win.

I'm sure he is but that's not the point. He started off his post admitting that he doesn't know much about SnGs but then offered some advice that doesn't apply very well to the micro stakes. I don't know much about 7-stud and so I stay out of that strat forum. I rarely even post in the NLHE cash strat forum because I'm not a cash player.Also, as I've said several times before in this thread, I know full well that I'm rolled for higher buy-ins. That's not the issue. The issue is that I was struggling and losing confidence and my bankroll was steadily dropping. So I decided to drop down and focus on rebuilding my confidence (and my roll) before moving back up.

[jmbreslin 0]

There's a difference between not taking 'bad advice' and not taking advice. It took me a long long time to recognise that some people here actually know what they're talking about . It just really seems to me that you're refusing to take anybody's advice just because it goes against what you're doing. You're just really coming off as somebody who truly believes they know it all and refuse to try and improve themselves, I'd suggest you listen to people like mln and king, who totally rock socks.

No, that's not a fair assessment. I'm very humble when it comes to my poker skills and I've been turning to people in the strat forums for advice for a long time now. The reason I'm ignoring some of the advice given is that it either misses the point of this exercise ("move up, you're rolled for a higher buyin") or it's advice that doesn't translate very well to the micro stakes tables. Honestly, anyone who says the bubble is the time to get aggro and steal like crazy hasn't played $1.20 STTs. Once I get my confidence back and recoup my losses a bit, then I'll move up and focus on the appropriate strategies for the better competition.

[Bessel 0]

I personally think it can be very detrimental to ones game to play over-rolled. Being a bankroll nit is fine, but not to this extent.I currently have 44 buy-ins for $20NL. I am comfortable having a 20 buy-in roll, so currently I can't quite move up to $50NL. Thus I am playing extremely spewy at $20NL since I just think to myself, " ahh **** it, I've got $880 in my account I may as well bluff shove for $20". It is a bit different with SnGs, as it's not the actual monetary values of hands, but this mindset may still hold.Also isn't the rake lower (edit: percentage) higher up the stakes? This is a big factor, which shouldn't be ignored.FWIW I have found $20NL to be much easier to beat than $10NL.

[RabidTortuga 0]

Okay, let's clarify a few things here:2) Keep in mind that I dropped down because I had been in a lengthy slump and had seen my roll drop by about 15% and it was starting to affect me psychologically. I needed to step back and regroup and that's what this process is about.

I just read this entire thread for the first time. I have come to one conclusion, and this post sums it up. You tilt too easily.I'd be curious to see your hand ranges for opening 5 and 4-handed (and 3-handed, for that matter), because I think you are probably playing too tight to win. What works here at 1.20's for the sake of squeeking into the money will not work as you move up because the overly tight play is easy to exploit. In short, it's not a long term winning strategy at any level.Sit-n-go's are a solved game, particularly as the blinds get higher and you get into push-fold territory (i.e. 5,4, or 3-handed most of the time in STTs.) Your range should/must widen considerably for opening the pot short-handed because even fairly weak hands by full ring standards have a significant equity edge against 2 or 3 random hands. If you can play position properly and isolate, the equity edge is even larger, but it is often correct to take the worst of it, dut to dead money and fold equity when you open light.Dropping 15% of your roll sucks, but if you are pushing edges properly it's going to happen now and then. On the other hand, fialing to push edges properly typically means alot of 2nd and 3rd place finishes for the exact reason you stated - you enter HU play with a huge chip deficit - which will result in less money per cash on average. Thus, even if you cash at a reasonable rate, your ROI will struggle because you are not pulling in a proper distribution of 1st place finishes, and you are therefore more likely to go on extended downswings.Edited to add: as the poster above me mentioned, the higher rake in the micros makes it harder to beat despite tha poorer play, and makes it increasingly important to get your fair distribution of 1st place finishes.

[jmbreslin 0]

Thanks for taking the time to read the thread and I do appreciate your post.I don't tilt in the traditional sense but I definitely get affected by losing streaks. Instead of getting angry and throwing my money around my confidence drops and I become trigger-shy. Then I become even more nitty and I do start to play scared. That's what was happening to me when I initially decided to take a break from the $3.40's, first experimenting with other games and then starting this rebuilding process at $1.20.You're also right that the drawback of dropping down to $1.20 is that it will force me to play a style that isn't actually helpful for my long term goals but my immediate term goal was to stop the bleeding in my roll and get my confidence back. I have been working on opening up and getting more aggressive so hopefully I'll be able to bring that with me when I move up. The trick, IMO, is figuring out the right level of aggression for the opposition.

[RabidTortuga 0]

The trick, IMO, is figuring out the right level of aggression for the opposition.

That's the thing, though. it doesn't matter all that much who your playing against. Once you are at the endgame of a STT where you are 3 or 4 handed, and your stacks are such that you are pretty much commited once you enter a pot, then if your range is correct from each position against a set number of players, it doesn't maqtter what type of players they are.If you open with a hand that has an equity advantage against 2 random hands (the blinds) from the button, and you are effectively commited by opening, it doesn't matter much what their calling ranges are, unless they play perfectly, in which case you better have rakeback because you'll never beat the game over the long run. If they call too often, you are more likely to have a bigger edge with a correct range, because they will call more often with hands you are ahead of. If they call too infrequently (ie. they play too tight), you will steal the blinds more often, but will occasionally get called by a hand that has you in bad shape. However, sometimes you will be opening with a hand at the top end of your range, which means even the tight players will get in in behind to your (correctly) very wide range once in a while.What all this means is that a specific range of hands would be correct against any type of opponents as long as it is correct against that number of random hands, as long as you are effectively commited to the hand due to your stack sizes relative to the blinds, because in these situations all the possible factors wash out against each other. This is increasingly true the shorter your stack relative to the other players, and decreasingly true the larger your stack, which means the shorter you are the more aggressive.you must be, and vice versa.

[jmbreslin 0]

I think that applies to turbos but not to regular speed tournies. Turbos become pushfests at the end because the stack-to-blind ratio become so small. In regular speed STTs, though, it's not unusual to get to the end stages with blinds as low as 50/100. Even as the shortie you can still have 15+BB.

[king1305 0]

I think that applies to turbos but not to regular speed tournies. Turbos become pushfests at the end because the stack-to-blind ratio become so small. In regular speed STTs, though, it's not unusual to get to the end stages with blinds as low as 50/100. Even as the shortie you can still have 15+BB.

I don't get how you can play a specific game as much as you do (in this case sngs) and just not get it. Sng's are a specific breed of mathematical based decisions. The people who are just playing their cards are the guys I want at the table with me in my sng, especially late. They have no idea about ranges and +EV shoves and blind stealing, etc. They don't know the mathematical edge you gain by shoving 8BBs from the SB with Q4o because you are ahead of the BBs range. You sir seem to be one of these people. SNGs have been broken down and analyzed thoroughly by many many many sng grinders over the years. There are specific ways to play them and play them most profitably. Sure, you might have decent results, but finishing 2nd and 3rd (especially with 20% rake) you aren't going to be able to make money long-term. Period.I would recommend you read up on sng strategy. There's a thread in gen that gary21212121 started about sng strat and a place for sng grinders to chat and discuss hands. Go there and post hands and ask what are the best sng strat articles etc to learn from.I wish you the best and admire your br mgmt, but you are coming off a bit stubborn here. If you do not think my opinion is worthy enough, that is fine, just let me know and I won't bother you anymore.-Sean

[jmbreslin 0]

There's no reason to get nasty, Sean. You're making a blatantly incorrect assumption about the type of player I am based on this thread. Just because I went into a slump and started playing nittier than I should have doesn't mean I know nothing about SnG strategy and I just play my cards. I may not be nearly as good as many others at FCP, but I'm no beginner donkey. I've read quite a bit on SnG strategy (much of which has to be adapted to the micro tables, not blindly applied), and I've been learning from experienced players in the tourney strat forum since I started playing just over a year ago.Some people have added some worthy advice to this thread and I appreciate that. I am working on getting more aggressive and a couple of posters (you included) made a very astute observation about my mindset (that I'm playing not to lose rather than playing to win). I'm working on that as well. I didn't intend to come across as stubborn but I did get a bit frustrated at some of the less helpful posts (and I always react negatively to posts that have insulting or unnecessarily harsh critical tones to them).

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

jmbreslin I would just like to add YOU SUCK!!!!!!!! jk come back to the O8 forums I feel like I'm typing to myself over there.....lol

[jmbreslin 0]

jmbreslin I would just like to add YOU SUCK!!!!!!!! jk come back to the O8 forums I feel like I'm typing to myself over there.....lol

LOL, sorry man that game started driving me nuts.

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

I have been having decent success at the FR FL O8 .25/.50 tables as of late and variance is easier to deal with......just a thought for u

[jmbreslin 0]

I have been having decent success at the FR FL O8 .25/.50 tables as of late and variance is easier to deal with......just a thought for u

First, what is FR? Second, I just couldn't make a go of FLO8 when I tried. I'm marginally profitable at PLO8 but a losing player at FLO8 (insert small sample disclaimer here). There may be less variance in FLO8 but it's replaced by the frustration of being drawn out on repeatedly.

[donk4life 34]

Ugh, I haven't read the last part of this thread.. But 300 dollars and only playing 1 dollar SnGs? Suicide IMO..I had 184 in my account on May 15.. 3 tabled 6.50 6 max turbos and now have a cool 3200... If you haven't moved up, move up now, for the love the god, at least for your sanity....

[jmbreslin 0]

Ugh, I haven't read the last part of this thread.. But 300 dollars and only playing 1 dollar SnGs? Suicide IMO..I had 184 in my account on May 15.. 3 tabled 6.50 6 max turbos and now have a cool 3200... If you haven't moved up, move up now, for the love the god, at least for your sanity....

Wait a minute, you turned $184 into $3200 in 2 months playing $6.50 STT turbos? Something's fishy. How many of these did you play in a day?Valid point about sanity, I am already getting tired of playing these night after night and watching my bankroll inch its way up. But I will only move up when I'm ready - I will not bow to forum peer pressure!

[Acid_Knight 2]

What is this thread?

[SCS 0]

Don't take this the wrong way, falcon, but I don't put a whole lot of stock in posts that begin "I don't know much about this" and then go on to dole out advice.There are many people (usually newbies) on this site who love to quote textbook strategy ("the bubble is where the money is made") but you have to learn to adapt what you read to the actual tables. Many of the textbook strategies don't work at the micro stakes because those players don't play the way they're supposed to play. Aggressive stealing on the bubble doesn't work against players who don't understand the gap concept and aren't afraid to bust out, just like bluffing doesn't work against players who will call down with bottom pair on coordinated boards.

Actually, I've found that the lower the stakes you play the more textbook strategy will work.

[SCS 0]

What is this thread?

The jmbreslin is a bankroll nit thread.