Breaking Out Of A Slump

[Giggidy 0]

The good news is you're taking beats but your BR has hardly dropped below the last post...

[jmbreslin 0]

The good news is you're taking beats but your BR has hardly dropped below the last post...

I was able to stop the bleeding by finishing the session with a 2nd and 3rd in my final two STTs.

[jmbreslin 0]

Weeee! Best session yet at PLO8 after busting out of two more STTs. Must...build...some...momentum....Bankroll: $309.09

[jmbreslin 0]

A bit of a setback again last night but made most of it back tonight when a donk gave me his stack in a PLO8 hand. The good news is that although progress is slow, my chart is trending upward.

[jmbreslin 0]

Sigh, still bouncing up and down and unable to make any real run. It's one step forward, one step back. So frustrating. And I'm not really enjoying playing, either. The one game that's been consistently profitable during this process has been the STTs. PLO8 has been really up and down over the last week or so. Perhaps I should just stick with the STTs for the time being. PLO8 can be so damn frustrating!Bankroll: $306.18

[jmbreslin 0]

The decision to focus on the STTs was a good one so far. Played 3 tonight, finishing 2nd twice and 3rd in the other.Bankroll: $309.78, highest since I began this rebuilding process.

[Sheiky 0]

You're so nitty i'm getting tilted just reading this

[jmbreslin 0]

Thanks!Decent day today. Off to a brutal start with three consecutive bad beat knockouts but pulled it together with several cashes, including my first win in a little while. Need to convert more of the 2nd place finishes into victories if I want this roll to really start climbing.Bankroll: $311.37

[Shark527 0]

I'd suggest a few of the $4.40 180 SNGS. Try 3-4 and see how that runs, or a couple $5 MTT's. I wish I could have this patience with thickening my pad. My roll is about half of yours and I'd still put up and play a 1/2 limit O8 game or the $25 PLO.

[TravisG 0]

You're so nitty i'm getting tilted just reading this

lol you might be joking but really... only thinking about $2 swongs makes me crazy. kinda jealous, too. it's hard for me to imagine how you can not go straight forward up at those limits.

[jmbreslin 0]

I'd suggest a few of the $4.40 180 SNGS. Try 3-4 and see how that runs, or a couple $5 MTT's. I wish I could have this patience with thickening my pad. My roll is about half of yours and I'd still put up and play a 1/2 limit O8 game or the $25 PLO.

The last thing I need right now is to get back into high variance MTTs like the $4.40, 180's. I would like to play them in the future but right now I'm focused on rebuilding.The patience comes from being a purely recreational player who has a pretty busy life outside of poker (full time job, 2 young kids). Poker is a hobby for me so no need to rush things.

[jmbreslin 0]

it's hard for me to imagine how you can not go straight forward up at those limits.

20% rake and bad beats at the hands of donks cuts into profitability. Roll building at $1.20 is definitely a slow but steady process. If I can start converting some of my 2nd place finishes into wins I'll feel more ready to move back up to the $3.40's. I just checked my stats since I started this process: more than 50% of my cashes are 2nd place finishes.

[Sheiky 0]

Thanks!Decent day today. Off to a brutal start with three consecutive bad beat knockouts but pulled it together with several cashes, including my first win in a little while. Need to STOP BEING A MASSIVE NIT!!! if I want this roll to really start climbing.Bankroll: $311.37

FYP

[antistuff 0]

dude, with a $300ish bankroll you should be having session losses and wins in like the $10-$25 range.i've read your posts on the o8 forum for a while, and im trying to give some constructive criticism here so please don't take it the wrong way, but i think you need to worry more about trying to win money and less about losing money. a big stumbling block for poker for me was to stop caring about losing money. really train yourself to get over it. its as important as playing your cards correctly. i know you play part time for recreation, but i imagine that you do so for the challenge of trying to succeed (i'm guessing $300 aint really much to you). don't do something stupid like buy into a 1/2nl game, but do go for it. try a session of .50/1 6max lhe or limit o8. take shots at the $25plo8 games. buy into a mtt for $10. and if you want help with your plo8 game drop me a PM, naturally pro bono.

[jmbreslin 0]

Okay, let's clarify a few things here:1) Yes, I am on the nitty side and I'm fine with that. I'm naturally a somewhat risk-averse person and this bankroll is all I've decided to dedicate to poker, so I want to be cautious with it while I hone my skills. I realize I'm playing well below what I'm rolled for, but I have no interest in stepping up before I feel ready and blowing $25 of my roll in a session.2) Keep in mind that I dropped down because I had been in a lengthy slump and had seen my roll drop by about 15% and it was starting to affect me psychologically. I needed to step back and regroup and that's what this process is about. antistuff, thanks for the PLO8 offer - I may take you up on it in the future but for now I'm staying away from the game. I am, however, looking forward to playing around a bit in 2-7 single draw when it starts...

[Shark527 0]

If 50% of your cashes are 2nd place finishes then why not try some of the $2 heads up SNGs? Sounds like maybe heads up in a weak link in your SNG game and it would easily be worth it to play (win or lose) a few of those to get some more experience.

[jmbreslin 0]

I've tried a handful and got slaughtered. But HU SnGs are very different from playing HU at the end of STTs. A big part of the reason why I have so many 2nd place finishes is because I almost always enter HU play with a 3-1 or 4-1 chip deficit. I don't take big chances and make loose calls before the bubble breaks so I'm often the shortie when we get ITM. I think what I may need to work on is taking more chances after the bubble breaks and risking more 3rds to put myself in a better position HU. So hard to do at these stakes, though, because the other players are so good at making mistakes. Can't tell you how often I've been the shortie on the bubble and then there's a flurry of activity over a few hands and I suddenly find myself HU!

[Dratj 0]

A big part of the reason why I have so many 2nd place finishes is because I almost always enter HU play with a 3-1 or 4-1 chip deficit.

I think this is your problem right here. You are probably playing way too tight.

[Shark527 0]

I've tried a handful and got slaughtered. But HU SnGs are very different from playing HU at the end of STTs. A big part of the reason why I have so many 2nd place finishes is because I almost always enter HU play with a 3-1 or 4-1 chip deficit. I don't take big chances and make loose calls before the bubble breaks so I'm often the shortie when we get ITM. I think what I may need to work on is taking more chances after the bubble breaks and risking more 3rds to put myself in a better position HU. So hard to do at these stakes, though, because the other players are so good at making mistakes. Can't tell you how often I've been the shortie on the bubble and then there's a flurry of activity over a few hands and I suddenly find myself HU!

Then why arn't you capitalizing on their mistakes? If they are making so many mistakes then why is it more often that you are the short stack and they are the chip leaders?I think it might go back to your confidence issues, but it sounds like you are just trying to squeak into the money simply to make the money. That sounds two-faced, but if you want some confidence back in poker, you HAVE to take some gambles and try to accumulate those chips. You have to detach yourself from the money and worry about the prize of winning.

[jmbreslin 0]

Then why arn't you capitalizing on their mistakes? If they are making so many mistakes then why is it more often that you are the short stack and they are the chip leaders?I think it might go back to your confidence issues, but it sounds like you are just trying to squeak into the money simply to make the money. That sounds two-faced, but if you want some confidence back in poker, you HAVE to take some gambles and try to accumulate those chips. You have to detach yourself from the money and worry about the prize of winning.

I'm actually not trying all that hard to squeak into the money; the nature of the play at these stakes is that it is pretty easy for a decent player to cash by letting other people at the table hang themselves. The obvious downside to that approach is that there is always someone (other than me) who gobbles up the chips. I think I need to find a bit more of a balance, but I'm not about to play the donk's game and take unnecessary risks if I don't have to. I would rather score a handful of 2nd place finishes than book a win or two and have a bunch of bubble bustouts. Playing to cash is not the wrong strategy in STTs - what I have to work on is getting more aggressive once I get ITM.

[Sheiky 0]

Then why arn't you capitalizing on their mistakes? If they are making so many mistakes then why is it more often that you are the short stack and they are the chip leaders?I think it might go back to your confidence issues, but it sounds like you are just trying to squeak into the money simply to make the money. That sounds two-faced, but if you want some confidence back in poker, you HAVE to take some gambles and try to accumulate those chips. You have to detach yourself from the money and worry about the prize of winning.

In the end game stages of a SNG it's quite hard sometimes to change your strategy based on the player because you simply don't know whether he knows that he should fold if you shove or not, in the long run you're making money by the playing so poorly be definition, but there are spots where it would be better for you if they played optimaly, I think that's because in a 4-way game them making a mistake V you can increase the two remaining players equity and not yours.But I haven't analysed it fully.

[antistuff 0]

I'm actually not trying all that hard to squeak into the money; the nature of the play at these stakes is that it is pretty easy for a decent player to cash by letting other people at the table hang themselves. The obvious downside to that approach is that there is always someone (other than me) who gobbles up the chips. I think I need to find a bit more of a balance, but I'm not about to play the donk's game and take unnecessary risks if I don't have to. I would rather score a handful of 2nd place finishes than book a win or two and have a bunch of bubble bustouts. Playing to cash is not the wrong strategy in STTs - what I have to work on is getting more aggressive once I get ITM.

taking risks and taking unnecessary risks are two different things.

[mln_falcon 0]

I don't know much about SNG's but I know this, the bubble is where the money is made, not after. Sounds like you need to improve your bubble play.Or you could move onto any other form of poker that is actually fun to play. I hate SNGs/tourneysAlso first post, so I agree with what others have said you're being way too nitty with you're bankroll, and I'm always telling people they need to be more careful with their br. Learning to lose well is just as important as any other skill. And learning cash will help you soooo much in the long run. There is no money to be made in SNGs as you move up in levels.

[jmbreslin 0]

Don't take this the wrong way, falcon, but I don't put a whole lot of stock in posts that begin "I don't know much about this" and then go on to dole out advice.There are many people (usually newbies) on this site who love to quote textbook strategy ("the bubble is where the money is made") but you have to learn to adapt what you read to the actual tables. Many of the textbook strategies don't work at the micro stakes because those players don't play the way they're supposed to play. Aggressive stealing on the bubble doesn't work against players who don't understand the gap concept and aren't afraid to bust out, just like bluffing doesn't work against players who will call down with bottom pair on coordinated boards.

[jmbreslin 0]

Here's a good example of the kind of mistakes I'm talking about:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (4 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero (t850)Button (t1715)SB (t8995)BB (t1940)Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4, K. 1 fold, Button raises to t300, 1 fold, BB raises to t900, Button raises to t1715, BB calls t815.Flop: (t3480) 2, 6, K(2 players)Turn: (t3480) 6(2 players)River: (t3480) 7(2 players)Final Pot: t3480Results:Button has Ac Qd (one pair, sixes). BB has Qs As (one pair, sixes). Outcome: Button wins t1740. BB wins t1740.Despite the fact that I'm sitting with a paltry 8.5BB, both the middle stacks are prepared to get into a raising war and risk being crippled or knocked out with AQ/AQs here. Didn't work out in my favor this time, but this is exactly the type of situation that often results in me squeaking into the money as a shortstack and ending HU with a huge chip deficit.