runthemover 39 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 This might be the worst argument I have ever heard.Nobody in the NHL, NFL, NBA, or MLB named 'Greg' has ever won the rookie of the year award. Link to post Share on other sites
freak2304 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 This might be the worst argument I have ever heard.Recent ROY's:07-08 Kevin Durant - his team record that year 20-6206-07 Brandon Roy - his team record that year 32-5005-06 Chris Paul - his team record that year 38-4404-05 Emeka Okafor - his team record that year 18-6403-04 Lebron James - his team record that year 35-4701-02 Pau Gasol - his team record that year 23-59I could go further back than that, but that will show my point. The only one left out was Amare Stoudemire from Phoenix in 02-03 where he was the only ROY in the last 7 years to come off of a team w/ a winning record (44-38). It's been a pretty consistent thing for the ROY to come from a down team where the rookie does most/alot of the heavy lifting. Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I was going to respond to the Ron Harper thing, but you guys about covered it, although I thought his first injury that killed him was when he tore up his knee, not his back?Anyone remember the "Free Harp" campaign on the Jim Rome Show back in the day, to get him off the Clippers?You know you are right, he did tear up his knee early in his career. I think the knee made the back injury worse by favoring it. Link to post Share on other sites
Shimmering Wang 1 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Recent ROY's:07-08 Kevin Durant - his team record that year 20-6206-07 Brandon Roy - his team record that year 32-5005-06 Chris Paul - his team record that year 38-4404-05 Emeka Okafor - his team record that year 18-6403-04 Lebron James - his team record that year 35-4701-02 Pau Gasol - his team record that year 23-59I could go further back than that, but that will show my point. The only one left out was Amare Stoudemire from Phoenix in 02-03 where he was the only ROY in the last 7 years to come off of a team w/ a winning record (44-38). It's been a pretty consistent thing for the ROY to come from a down team where the rookie does most/alot of the heavy lifting.Oh man... you're still not getting it? Link to post Share on other sites
freak2304 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Oh man... you're still not getting it?LOL, ok then...tell me how it works, Mr. NBA. Link to post Share on other sites
Poppy_Hillis 11 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 LOL, ok then...tell me how it works, Mr. NBA.You forgot in your sig that Jackson got traded to Cleveland. Link to post Share on other sites
freak2304 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 You forgot in your sig that Jackson got traded to Cleveland.Hmmmmmm....I hadn't seen that yet, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,320 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 LOL, ok then...tell me how it works, Mr. NBA.I think he's saying that Miami isn't going to be a bad team this year.Not sure I agree with that assessment as they most likely will still suck pretty bad but what do I know. Link to post Share on other sites
Shimmering Wang 1 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I think he's saying that Miami isn't going to be a bad team this year.Not sure I agree with that assessment as they most likely will still suck pretty bad but what do I know.I think Miami is going to be a playoff caliber team in the East if everything breaks right -- especially if Wade stays healthy -- but that's not exactly my point. My point is something like:As far as your NBA ROY/bad-team correlation, are you sure you're not just seeing a correlation between LOTTERY TEAMS and bad records? The worse a team is one year, the higher they pick in the draft. The worse a team is one year, the worse said team will be next year. Good teams don't produce ROY candidates very often, this is true, but it's NOT because "good teams means fewer shots for young players."It would look something more like this:1) Good teams rarely get high draft picks, meaning they don't get lottery talent in the draft.2) Good teams often draft for need, or draft longer-term projects, instead of drafting the best-available player3) Good teams often don't have space in the rotation for young players4) Bad teams have top 3 picks and get access to the best, most NBA-ready talent, and tend to have the requisite floor-space and local pressure to give them big minutes, leading to a ROY campaign. Bad teams produce ROY candidates NOT because they are bad THIS YEAR, but because they were bad LAST YEAR. Link to post Share on other sites
freak2304 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I think Miami is going to be a playoff caliber team in the East if everything breaks right -- especially if Wade stays healthy -- but that's not exactly my point. My point is something like:As far as your NBA ROY/bad-team correlation, are you sure you're not just seeing a correlation between LOTTERY TEAMS and bad records? The worse a team is one year, the higher they pick in the draft. The worse a team is one year, the worse said team will be next year. Good teams don't produce ROY candidates very often, this is true, but it's NOT because "good teams means fewer shots for young players."It would look something more like this:1) Good teams rarely get high draft picks, meaning they don't get lottery talent in the draft.2) Good teams often draft for need, or draft longer-term projects, instead of drafting the best-available player3) Good teams often don't have space in the rotation for young players4) Bad teams have top 3 picks and get access to the best, most NBA-ready talent, and tend to have the requisite floor-space and local pressure to give them big minutes, leading to a ROY campaign. Bad teams produce ROY candidates NOT because they are bad THIS YEAR, but because they were bad LAST YEAR. The examples I gave showed the guys who won ROY played on a bad team THAT YEAR too. Sure, their teams were bad the year before to get a somewhat high draft pick, but the year they actually won the award they were not good. You're argument there makes no sense. My point was that, imo, Portland will have a better team with more quality players this year than Miami, therefore Beasley's numbers will be bigger and better, thus winning the ROY.Edit: And I'm not saying guys win the ROY just because they are on a bad team...I think I've stated over and over my point and not looking to argue over something so meaningless. By your logic, it looks like it's Beasley for ROY this year, then....gg. Link to post Share on other sites
Shimmering Wang 1 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 The examples I gave showed the guys who won ROY played on a bad team THAT YEAR too. Sure, their teams were bad the year before to get a somewhat high draft pick, but the year they actually won the award they were not good. You're argument there makes no sense. My point was that, imo, Portland will have a better team with more quality players this year than Miami, therefore Beasley's numbers will be bigger and better, thus winning the ROY.Edit: And I'm not saying guys win the ROY just because they are on a bad team...I think I've stated over and over my point and not looking to argue over something so meaningless. By your logic, it looks like it's Beasley for ROY this year, then....gg.Yeah, and I'm saying bad teams tend to stay bad from year-to-year, especially teams picking top 3 in the draft. The worst team in the NBA last year is, all things being equal, very likely to be terrible this year, too. I'm saying that your "ROY's come from bad teams" argument is actually just a restatement of "teams that are bad one year tend to be bad the next." Bad teams don't produce Rookies of the Year because it means rookies from those teams can run and gun, whereas their counterparts on good teams can't; bad teams produce Rookies of the Year because BAD TEAMS GET GOOD ROOKIES. Ya dig? You may be right, but I bet there'd be a tighter correlation between: "Rookie of the Year" and "Team Record the Year Before" than there would be between "Rookie of the Year" and "Team Record Current Year."Wang Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I think he's saying that Miami isn't going to be a bad team this year.Not sure I agree with that assessment as they most likely will still suck pretty bad but what do I know.I think they improve by a minimum of 20 wins.....depending on what happens with Marion. Link to post Share on other sites
freak2304 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I think they improve by a minimum of 20 wins.....depending on what happens with Marion.I'm officially a Miami Heat fan. Since I live nowhere near an NBA team, I just follow former Jayhawks and root for them. So currently I am a Sonics/Bulls/Celtics/Trail Blazers/Spurs/Hornets/Pacers/Grizzlies/Heat/Cavaliers fan........but only partly. Link to post Share on other sites
Ganseynogle 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Let the debate begin for next years rookie of the year.....I'd put money on Michael Beasley.OJ MAYO Link to post Share on other sites
freak2304 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 OJ MAYOI'd also take Beasley vs Mayo straight up for $100 or less. Any serious injury, either way, would void the bet. Link to post Share on other sites
Ganseynogle 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I'd also take Beasley vs Mayo straight up for $100 or less. Any serious injury, either way, would void the bet.I don't follow the NBA as close as I do college basketball so I don't really know whos game with translate better to the NBA game. So i wont take that bet. Link to post Share on other sites
freak2304 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I don't follow the NBA as close as I do college basketball so I don't really know whos game with translate better to the NBA game. So i wont take that bet.LOL, ok then. Link to post Share on other sites
Ganseynogle 0 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 LOL, ok then.I'm not going to make a bet that I dont feel that confident in. All I did was throw the name out there who I think is going to win the ROY. Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I'm not going to make a bet that I dont feel that confident in. All I did was throw the name out there who I think is going to win the ROY.dont mind him, he used to be an irishman. Link to post Share on other sites
freak2304 0 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 dont mind him, he used to be an irishman.I don't get it. Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I don't get it.Look to me! Who is this under my knife! Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 To me, Kevin Love = a rich man's Brad Miller.Shawn (Rochester, MN): Hi David. Kevin Love will likely have a similar career to _____? I didn't watch the NBA during Wes Unseld's time; someone recent? David Thorpe: (12:43 PM ET ) Brad Miller.ego boost---2 pts. Link to post Share on other sites
Poppy_Hillis 11 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 MIAMI -- Rookie forward Michael Beasley did not finish his first practice with the Miami Heat summer league team Wednesday after being struck in the chest by a teammate's elbow.The Heat said Beasley, the No. 2 overall pick in last week's NBA draft, was being taken for evaluation and had no further details on the extent of the injury.Beasley and the Heat are scheduled to begin play in the Orlando summer league on Monday.Is he going to be this kind of guy? Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 MIAMI -- Rookie forward Michael Beasley did not finish his first practice with the Miami Heat summer league team Wednesday after being struck in the chest by a teammate's elbow.The Heat said Beasley, the No. 2 overall pick in last week's NBA draft, was being taken for evaluation and had no further details on the extent of the injury.Beasley and the Heat are scheduled to begin play in the Orlando summer league on Monday.Is he going to be this kind of guy?I just read the article too.....and Heat Coach Spolestra said that if it was the regular season he would have been back on the court in 5 minutes but since it is early preseason they wanted to be overly cautious.I am pretty sure the Heat are just being overly motherish with their new, flashy rook. I have heard lots of people suggest he is immature.....never heard anyone say he was a pussy. Link to post Share on other sites
Poppy_Hillis 11 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 In the Summer League are they using the NBA 3-pt line or the International? It doesn't look as deep as the NBA line. Link to post Share on other sites
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