Sick Draw. Aggro Shoves On Turn.

[Snake Plissken 0]

This is a WSOP step 4 sng ($215). Villain is a very successful player. I've played with him in one WSOP step 5 sng and another WSOP 4 sng. Even though his stats are impressive, I dislike his sng play. I've seen him donk shove and make some risky plays over and over. He's certainly not afraid of being knocked out. Ever since we got 3-handed he's been playing many hands. Top 2 advance to WSOP step 5. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (3 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)BB (t4200)Hero (t4645)SB (t4655)Preflop: Hero is Button with A, 8. Hero raises to t250, SB calls t200, 1 fold.Flop: (t600) 6, 7, 2(2 players)SB checks, Hero checks.Turn: (t600) 5(2 players)SB bets t400, Hero raises to t1200, SB raises to t4405, Hero??You call it? Play it differently on other streets?

[ABigMotivation 0]

I don't think raising the turn is entirely necessary. I would want to see the river as cheap as possible and if you said he shoves at donkish times then he has a wide variety of hands like small set or even a draw. Im probably folding this one but what do i know.

[ABigMotivation 0]

I don't think raising the turn is entirely necessary. I would want to see the river as cheap as possible and if you said he shoves at donkish times then he has a wide variety of hands like small set or even a draw. Im probably folding this one but what do i know.

[clingfree 0]

I think you played it ok, maybe just call the turn as the other guy said. Based on your read of the player I would call here....but I could understand folding.

[LJB723 0]

Why no c-bet on the flop? Based on your read I could probably find a call. Does villain have a wide range of hands he's willing to play oop? The only hands we're in big trouble is a made straight, set or 2p. And we have outs against all of them. To me this looks like a fd with overs. KhQh, KhJh, that sort of thing so you could well be ahead.Don't hate either calling or folding.

[copernicus 0]

Why no c-bet on the flop? Based on your read I could probably find a call. Does villain have a wide range of hands he's willing to play oop? The only hands we're in big trouble is a made straight, set or 2p. And we have outs against all of them. To me this looks like a fd with overs. KhQh, KhJh, that sort of thing so you could well be ahead.Don't hate either calling or folding.

Cbets are so 2007, lol.Turn is definitely a flat call on the Sklansky vomit theory.

[jmbreslin 0]

I don't like that turn raise. Unless you raised PF w/ 43 or 98, that 5 isn't a scare card at all. And since you checked behind on the flop he's not going to fear a decent PP. So you're telegraphing your hand as a semi-bluff draw or a weak pair trying to steal the pot. I also don't like going all the way with the semi-bluff and pushing because it's a huge overbet into a 600 chip pot, so I'm just flat-calling the turn.

[Snake Plissken 0]

Why no c-bet on the flop? Based on your read I could probably find a call. Does villain have a wide range of hands he's willing to play oop? The only hands we're in big trouble is a made straight, set or 2p. And we have outs against all of them. To me this looks like a fd with overs. KhQh, KhJh, that sort of thing so you could well be ahead.Don't hate either calling or folding.

I agree with the you guys thoughts on 4th street, however I don't hate my turn raise. My standard play is a flat call but I mix it up every once in a while if I find a reason to do so (and I did exactly that here based on the history we had together). So LJB, you are absolutely right. We are afraid of 2p, set or a made straight. But I didn't think he had neither of those hands when he shoved. He likes to lead (I expect him to bet a open ended straight draw and even a 2 on the flop!). So I counted out every pair (pp included!). When he bet the turn, I didnt think he had anything. He's just trying to steal it since I checked behind. 4 8 is not in his range even though he his very loose. So I'm thinking he's holding a 5 and think I'm gonna fold it (I've folded some big hands against him before so he might think I can't make a loose call with a pair or something) by pushing. It's not impossible, but I don't really think he'd make such a play on me. Perhaps he's got 34 (less likely but actually possible, especially 3h4h). But as you were thinking LJB, I figured he was holding two big hearts. And thats what he did, KhJh.

[Mercury69 3]

Why not just shove the turn, then? When you raise to 1200, you're making the pot 2200 giving the villain almost 3 to 1 odds to call. If you actually want to take the pot, shoving (and beating the villain to the punch) is the thing to do, unless you wanted the call, in which case you got more than you bargained for.

[Snake Plissken 0]

Why not just shove the turn, then? When you raise to 1200, you're making the pot 2200 giving the villain almost 3 to 1 odds to call. If you actually want to take the pot, shoving (and beating the villain to the punch) is the thing to do, unless you wanted the call, in which case you got more than you bargained for.

I didnt get it all clear in my head until he shoved thats why

[....Ian.... 0]

Cbets are so 2007, lol.

i havent played in about 5 months and am about to get back into it, is this statement a joke or are players more savvy to it?what did you mean here?

[copernicus 0]

i havent played in about 5 months and am about to get back into it, is this statement a joke or are players more savvy to it?what did you mean here?

No, not a joke, at least at higher limits. No one puts any credence in c-bets being a real hand in NL. They are still effective in limit because two overs on the flop have implied odds if the small cbet goes unraised. I still think you have to mix it up on the flop, but you cant assume that your c-bet is going to eliminate many hands from what villain puts you on.

[Sheiky 0]

No, not a joke, at least at higher limits. No one puts any credence in c-bets being a real hand in NL. They are still effective in limit because two overs on the flop have implied odds if the small cbet goes unraised. I still think you have to mix it up on the flop, but you cant assume that your c-bet is going to eliminate many hands from what villain puts you on.

Yeh i agree with this, i read somewhere that C-bets are kind of a moot strategy at higher level games because everyone is so good at combatting them, i think that when i watch a higher stakes 6-max NL game they C-bet far far far less than i normaly am accustomed to. There's one player (BrynKenny) that literaly never seems to C-bet.

[Muckuup 0]

It appears to me that you have position on him so theres no need for the raise on the turn because you want to see a river and even though you have a massive draw there is only one card to come. I totally disagree with the turn raise because he may push on the river after you've made your hand or he may check call you, and if you miss your still in the game with plenty of chips to work with.

[Mercury69 3]

C-bets are another way to spew chips, particularly when you miss the flop with your unpaired high cards...

[copernicus 0]

Yeh i agree with this, i read somewhere that C-bets are kind of a moot strategy at higher level games because everyone is so good at combatting them, i think that when i watch a higher stakes 6-max NL game they C-bet far far far less than i normaly am accustomed to. There's one player (BrynKenny) that literaly never seems to C-bet.

Im a bit surprised you can pin BK down to "never" doing anything. Hes so aggro and varies his play a ton, and is very tough to read, imo. (As opposed to Aaron Bartley who I think is nearly transparent in his plays while still being aggro.)