I'm Thinking About Mucking A-j From Now On

[StilettoNole 0]

Third hand in the session, so no reads and I haven't played with any of these d-bags before.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)SB ($24.75)BB ($33.75)UTG ($5.30)MP ($69.40)Hero ($29.25)Button ($11.35)Preflop: Hero is CO with , . 1 fold, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.1, 2 folds, BB calls $0.85, MP calls $0.85.Flop: ($3.40) , , (3 players)BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $2.75, BB folds, MP raises to $11.65, Hero thinks forever about how much he hates A-J...Seriously, I never profit with A-J and am thinking about just tossing it from now on. How do you win money with it?

[ROBBBIGG 0]

you didn't really get the flop you wanted, even though you hit your ace. this is one of those "lose a big one" parts of a reverse implied odds hand like AJ. or shove, maybe he was checkraising with a flush draw

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Raise more preflop.

[Andromeda 0]

Raise more preflop.

this doesn't fit into Nole's MO though - he raises 5X the BB + 1BB for every limper so it fits his image (and makes it easy to conceal monster hands since it's his standard)

[Acid_Knight 2]

Well, assume he's never got AK here because he'd RR preflop. If he's got A4, it's not the end of the world because we still have 6 outs right now and 9 on the turn. If he's got 44, we're dead. We're really crushing the rest of his range and the fact that he RR'd so big would make me think he's got some kind of draw more often than a made hand.I don't mind getting it in here.

[TrueAce13 18]

What if they have something like AsXs (something like 8 or something). I could see him flat calling a raise with a hand like this. I don't think the pot is right to gamble against someone could have 12 outs and we would be flipping coins

[StilettoNole 0]

this doesn't fit into Nole's MO though - he raises 5X the BB + 1BB for every limper so it fits his image (and makes it easy to conceal monster hands since it's his standard)

This is my standard on Pokerstars... this hand was played on Full Tilt, where people are less apt to call pre-flop. My normal range here is just to hit the "bet pot" btn. Depending on the villain I may make it more or less, but pre-flop, I use that as my standard.

[NonZeroPossibility 0]

That's weird, I just played last night and was thinking about AJ on the drive home from the casino. That would actually be a good discussion. I know for a fact that I lose more than I win with that hand, but it's one of the best preflop hands you can have (so they say). I have started to just limp AJ from most positions, rarely call raises with it and find myself just mucking preflop if I'm UTG in a full ring game. I know superstitions and what-not shouldn't apply when talking about math and poker and odds and s.h.it. but that hand is cursed for me. I just busted out of a WSOP circuit last month with AJ against 66. Flop my ace, runner runner flush for 66, gg me.... And last night, flop the nfd with AcJc, looks nice. Brick, brick. 77 holds up for Mr. Short stack. eFF AJ.

[StilettoNole 0]

That's weird, I just played last night and was thinking about AJ on the drive home from the casino. That would actually be a good discussion. I know for a fact that I lose more than I win with that hand, but it's one the best of the best preflop hands you can have (so they say). I have started to just limp AJ from most positions, rarely call raises with it and find myself just mucking preflop if I'm UTG in a full ring game. I know superstitions and what-not shouldn't apply when talking about math and poker and odds and s.h.it. but that hand is cursed for me. I just busted out of a WSOP circuit last month with AJ against 66. Flop my ace, runner runner flush for 66, gg me.... And last night, flop I nfd with AcJc, looks nice. Brick, brick. 77 holds up for Mr. Short stack. eFF AJ.

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is a long term winner playing 5-10 live (full ring). We had a long discussion about A-J because I feel like I am a long term loser with that hand too. He said that from any position he almost always limps A-J. If it limps around and an A flops, he can be fairly confident that he has the biggest ace because no one raised it pre. If someone behind him bumps it up, he can call the raise and know that he wont go broke with just a pair of aces, or he can just fold (depending on the player, obviously). I thought that was pretty interesting point and one I'd like to discuss here.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Preflop: Hero is CO with , . 1 fold, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.1

- he raises 5X the BB + 1BB for every limper so it fits his image

5XBB + 1BB = 1.50

My normal raise here is just to hit the "bet pot" btn.

That's a bad habit

[mtdesmoines 3]

I don't have that AJ problem in live games. Since we play so many fewer hands than someone multi-tabling, AJ looks like a monster and plays like one a lot of the time. And I usually know who to avoid with AJ in live games in about 10 minutes. I can read PEOPLE live in a heartbeat. I have trouble reading avatars online because I don't have PT and it takes forever to run into people again that you've taken notes on.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Take this however you want:Learn to play poker. AJ >>>>>>>>> average starting hand and is also >>>>> hands people will call raises with.It's a fold UTG in a ring game. It's a raise UTG in a 6m game. Don't limp with it becuase you're afraid to lose. Don't limp/fold. Don't limp/call. Open with it at any spot in a 6m game. If it's already been raised, folding is probably the safest play, but is opponent dependant.The fact that you're losing with the hand almost certainly has nothing to do with how weak or strong AJ actually is, but the situations you're choosing to play it in and how you're playing it post flop. You're making too many mistakes and that's why you're losing with the hand. Whether those mistakes involve overplaying 1 pair hands, calling too many raises, playing pots OOP or whatever, I don't know.But seriously, talking about mucking AJ becuase you're losing money when you play it means that you have to get better at playing it.

[StilettoNole 0]

Acid, thank you for your response as always... and I will not whine about how you b*tched me out or anything like that. I have tougher skin than that, so no worries.The sub-title in this post is sorta meant to be funny, not to be taken literally. If I picked up A-J in an un-opened pot right now I would raise it, so no worries there. I just feel like I end up losing a lot of money with it a lot. That is why I wanted to discuss it with my online, poker community. To see why I am losing money and how to fix it.

[Acid_Knight 2]

You're probably losing money with a lot of hands for various reasons that have to do with your post flop fundamentals not being as strong as they need to be. Really, the only way to get better at those is to keep posting hands and to play more hands.And FWIW, I didn't think you were serious about not playing AJ. It's just that people think the problem is with the relative strength of the hand, but it's not that, it's how frequently and how severely you're misplaying it.

[mtdesmoines 3]

And FWIW, I didn't think you were serious about not playing AJ. It's just that people think the problem is with the relative strength of the hand, but it's not that, it's how frequently and how severely you're misplaying it.

[breathweapon 0]

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is a long term winner playing 5-10 live (full ring). We had a long discussion about A-J because I feel like I am a long term loser with that hand too. He said that from any position he almost always limps A-J. If it limps around and an A flops, he can be fairly confident that he has the biggest ace because no one raised it pre. If someone behind him bumps it up, he can call the raise and know that he wont go broke with just a pair of aces, or he can just fold (depending on the player, obviously). I thought that was pretty interesting point and one I'd like to discuss here.

It's not a bad idea, at micro stakes people are limping with AXs and Arag all the time, so AJ and AT should be above their range.

[mtdesmoines 3]

It's not a bad idea, at micro stakes people are limping with AXs and Arag all the time, so AJ and AT should be above their range.

I think it's just a matter of knowing your game, no matter what level you're playing. It's not a microstakes thing. AJ and AQ are probably two of my most profitable hands over time, because I don't overplay them. They're good value hands if you know how to fold at the right time.