Jackets1407 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 If you want to go back even further, I remember always asking my dad why that oaf Mike Marshall 'always swings at balls in the dirt'. Mondesi couldn't lay off the outside slider, and Beltre obv is the most recent example. The old school way of thinking (doesn't apply to that big white oaf Marshall), was that Latin/Caribbean players are free swingers and had poor plate discipline. I can't recall it off the top of my head, but there is an old quote/saying from the Dominican Republic saying something along the lines of, 'you can't walk yourself to the Major Leagues'. Vlad is a good example of a player who fits that, but players like Bobby Abreu don't at all. Someone did a statistical study a few years back that I remember seeing online, and didn't conclusively prove anything. The Latin/Carribean players had a slightly less pitch per AB avg then other nationalities, but only like .5 an AB or something.I'm guessing/hoping that Jones is just pressing himself too much with a new team, and coming off a career worst year. His plate woes are similar to Kemp's actually; he's over anxious, and is trying to hit outside pitches when he should be waiting for stuff middle-in. If he can recognize breaking ball early, then he should know that if it starts outside, it's not going to be a strike. If you are talented enough to hit major league pitching, then it's amazing how simple it can look if you lay off breaking balls, get ahead in the count, and then sit on a fastball (again, see Beltre's ABs his one good year). Easier said then done though.....Hopefully all 3 (Jones, Kemp, Martin) look better tonight against a softer throwing lefty/Doug Davis...[/quoteSorry to be the bearer of bad news to all the Dodgers fans, but Andruw has looked the same way since the mid-point of the '06 season. Andruw was always one of my fav players here in Atlanta, but I was so thankful that another team offered him a ridiculous contract just to be sure the Braves wouldn't even attempt to re-sign him.That being said his defense is still outstanding (and I'm pretty sure it always will be). He's lost some arm strength and maybe a step, but he still gets the greatest jump on balls that I have ever seen.I wish the best for Andruw and hope he is successful out there in LA, but I believe the best is way behind him.And he has to swing at the most sliders in the dirt of any player in the history of the game! It was extremely frustrating for me. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 "You can't walk your way off the island."I haven't seen a study like that, but that's interesting. I love the way anecdotes just get accepted as fact over time.Vlad is the most impressive hitter I've ever seen. He can take any pitch and not just make contact, but hit it hard. I'm not saying he's the best hitter, but I love watching him. Like that home run in the All-Star game against Penny. Penny was throwing serious gas and had struck out the first two guys on all fastballs and then Vlad hits one out to the opposite field on a fastball about shoulder high. So great.Yup, that's the one. I'll try and find that study really quick.............Here is one study from 1994-1996, but not the one I am thinking of. The one I had seen previously dealt with the last few decades, not just a 3 year span. http://www.thediamondangle.com/marasco/carib/walks.htmlAnd here is another extensive article on the subject...I'll keep trying to find the longer duration study, it's just a matter of putting in the right search terms in google. (Edit: actually that was the article I had read previously, I found an old RGP post I made about the subject....someone should do a longer study though, lol)http://www.isteve.com/Sports_Baseball_Hidden_Ethnic_Bias.htm Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 Sorry to be the bearer of bad news to all the Dodgers fans, but Andruw has looked the same way since the mid-point of the '06 season. Andruw was always one of my fav players here in Atlanta, but I was so thankful that another team offered him a ridiculous contract just to be sure the Braves wouldn't even attempt to re-sign him.That being said his defense is still outstanding (and I'm pretty sure it always will be). He's lost some arm strength and maybe a step, but he still gets the greatest jump on balls that I have ever seen.I wish the best for Andruw and hope he is successful out there in LA, but I believe the best is way behind him.And he has to swing at the most sliders in the dirt of any player in the history of the game! It was extremely frustrating for me.Yeah, that was why I was relieved it was only a 2 year deal. Like Colletti obv, I was hoping the lure of another big contract in 2 years would prompt some sort of resurrection of his old self....He swings so damn hard (like Furcal actually, but at least Raffy takes pitches), and pulls off the ball so much....I can't wait to see how far he hits some 'mistake' fastballs this year, but they will probably be rare. I can live with .250/25/80+...sad how little expectation 18m (or more) a year gets you these days. After all, look at Zito.On a side note, I think Joe Torre should institute a rule that the younger players aren't allowed to watch Jones' ABs this year, to keep them from picking up any bad habits. Martin already has a tendecy to pull off the ball when he isn't hitting well, and Matt Kemp has similiar traits to players like Mondesi/Jones. Link to post Share on other sites
Jackets1407 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Yeah, that was why I was relieved it was only a 2 year deal. Like Colletti obv, I was hoping the lure of another big contract in 2 years would prompt some sort of resurrection of his old self....He swings so damn hard (like Furcal actually, but at least Raffy takes pitches), and pulls off the ball so much....I can't wait to see how far he hits some 'mistake' fastballs this year, but they will probably be rare. I can live with .250/25/80+...sad how little expectation 18m (or more) a year gets you these days. After all, look at Zito.On a side note, I think Joe Torre should institute a rule that the younger players aren't allowed to watch Jones' ABs this year, to keep them from picking up any bad habits. Martin already has a tendecy to pull off the ball when he isn't hitting well, and Matt Kemp has similiar traits to players like Mondesi/Jones.A 2 year deal really isn't that bad at all. I was hoping for a big year last year in his contract year since it was pretty obvious we wouldn't be able to re-sign him.It's kind of funny that all of the players we're talking about swinging so hard are all former Braves. I guess Pendleton doesn't believe in teaching hitters to cut down their swings with two strikes!!!And Andruw will hit mistakes a long long ways when he does see them. He's very quick inside so when he sees inside fastballs and hanging off-speed pitches he normally doesn't miss them. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Dammit CHAD! Link to post Share on other sites
jeff_536 3 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Damn they took Kemp out and put Pierre in. Booo, I have Kemp on my fantasy team.Shutup...I have Pierre and his one frickin' hit.Patrick: I have Zito on my team...heh...it was the equivalent of the 16th round of our draft, pretty much had to take him. I just hope he's mediocre and doesn't kill me.Heh I forgive you, not sure about JJJ though. Vin is def something that has to grow on you I think, especially if you are used to modern day broadcasts. He has a style that is completely different then others, and is more about providing a great description of the atmosphere of the game, then play by play.I'm a pretty big collector of baseball literature..novels, short stories, anthologies, that kind of stuff. I remember one collection had a transcript of Scully's call of the ninth inning of Koufax's perfect game, Sept. 1965. edit: found a link with it. It's a beautiful read, considering it was done live.http://www.salon.com/people/feature/1999/1.../scully_koufax/ Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyJoJo 18 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 http://www.salon.com/people/feature/1999/1.../scully_koufax/That's awesome. I got chills from reading it. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 I'm a pretty big collector of baseball literature..novels, short stories, anthologies, that kind of stuff. I remember one collection had a transcript of Scully's call of the ninth inning of Koufax's perfect game, Sept. 1965. edit: found a link with it. It's a beautiful read, considering it was done live.http://www.salon.com/people/feature/1999/1.../scully_koufax/ Very, very cool read. I had heard/read somewhere, that some old guy in the midwest owns all the tapes of Vin Scully doing Dodgers games from back in the day, including that game, and refuses to sell them. I guess the HoF is waiting for him to die, along with a ton of collectors. :)Sandy was such a bad ass though; finished off that game with 6 straigh Ks, so sick. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Shutup...I have Pierre and his one frickin' hit.Patrick: I have Zito on my team...heh...it was the equivalent of the 16th round of our draft, pretty much had to take him. I just hope he's mediocre and doesn't kill me.I'm a pretty big collector of baseball literature..novels, short stories, anthologies, that kind of stuff. I remember one collection had a transcript of Scully's call of the ninth inning of Koufax's perfect game, Sept. 1965. edit: found a link with it. It's a beautiful read, considering it was done live.http://www.salon.com/people/feature/1999/1.../scully_koufax/ Okay, that was pretty cool. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 Okay, that was pretty cool.Best part of it:Swung on and missed, a perfect game!(38 seconds of cheering.)Same goes for his call of Gibson's HR in '88; no ego at all, he lets the moment and the crowd speak for itself. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Best part of it:Swung on and missed, a perfect game!(38 seconds of cheering.)Same goes for his call of Gibson's HR in '88; no ego at all, he lets the moment and the crowd speak for itself.Which I greatly respect as I learn more about this guy. I hate watching events when something large happens, like Justin Verlanders no hitter last year or Maggies walk off HR to win the ALCS two years ago. Each one has some broadcaster going nuts and screaming about it and I want to hear the crowd. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 Which I greatly respect as I learn more about this guy. I hate watching events when something large happens, like Justin Verlanders no hitter last year or Maggies walk off HR to win the ALCS two years ago. Each one has some broadcaster going nuts and screaming about it and I want to hear the crowd.Have you seen that Kevin Costner baseball/romantic movie For Love of the Game? Pretty bad, my gf likes it a lot though, but Vin does the play by play in the movie. Although his parts are obviously scripted, I thought it was a pretty good portrayal of how he actually broadcasts big moments like that etc.He was on the Tigers in the movie, so I bet you've seen it, but probably didn't realize it was Vin doing the announcing. On a side note, there was a guy at my stars table the other day by the name of BillyChapel, and he had the character as his avatar.On another side note, Andruw Jones and that weird half smile he always has on when he is failing miserably is really starting to freak me out kinda. Something very disturbing about it when you add the weird tats. The Diamondbacks look pretty impressive early. :-/ Link to post Share on other sites
kers2 0 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Double YewTeeEffSeriously... not happy. Patrick you are spot on about Andruw, I was thinking that the other day. Soooooo frustrating to watch him hit. And Bison is pulling off too pretty bad. Head's not on the pitch at all.LETS GO BOYSDid I mention I hate the Diamondbacks? Ok Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 Double YewTeeEffSeriously... not happy. Patrick you are spot on about Andruw, I was thinking that the other day. Soooooo frustrating to watch him hit. And Bison is pulling off too pretty bad. Head's not on the pitch at all.LETS GO BOYSDid I mention I hate the Diamondbacks? OkIf we could somehow guarantee he wouldn't hurt anyone, I wouldn't mind a Ethier-Repko-Kemp outfield at this point. At least Repko will hit line drives once in a while, even if he probably would run into Kemp eventually and break his leg or something.I really would like to see Andruw succeed (obv), but at this point his ABs are so bad it's hard to see him being able to get back on track enough to be a huge positive about the team this year. Anyway pretty pathetic showing, now they come home to face Peavy and Young again, just the thing the offense needs.....Sigh, where in the f is Livan Hernandez or Shawn Estes when you need them? When do we play Florida, and is there any way Mark Henrickson can start twice in the same series against us? Link to post Share on other sites
kers2 0 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 If we could somehow guarantee he wouldn't hurt anyone, I wouldn't mind a Ethier-Repko-Kemp outfield at this point. At least Repko will hit line drives once in a while, even if he probably would run into Kemp eventually and break his leg or something.I really would like to see Andruw succeed (obv), but at this point his ABs are so bad it's hard to see him being able to get back on track enough to be a huge positive about the team this year. Anyway pretty pathetic showing, now they come home to face Peavy and Young again, just the thing the offense needs.....Sigh, where in the f is Livan Hernandez or Shawn Estes when you need them? When do we play Florida, and is there any way Mark Henrickson can start twice in the same series against us?Sad thing is, you know Hendrickson will throw a gem when he faces us. The NL West is pretty friggin ridiculous right now Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 11, 2008 Author Share Posted April 11, 2008 Sad thing is, you know Hendrickson will throw a gem when he faces us. The NL West is pretty friggin ridiculous right nowWithout a doubt. The Dodgers for years have been unequaled in their ability to make scrub pitchers look like Cy Young winners. Some of that is due to the park, and the way the team is usually built though. Link to post Share on other sites
jeff_536 3 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Dodgers 6-8Giants 6-9Is the suicide watch on in the Jackson household? Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 Dodgers 6-8Giants 6-9Is the suicide watch on in the Jackson household?The Dodgers are under performing at 6-8, and the Giants are over performing at 6-9, so nope, not worried. If they are close to the Giants in the standings in late July or something, then I will be worried. Until then I am faced with the pleasant dilemna of choosing between rooting for the Giants or whatever NL West team they happen to be playing. Tradition and instinct tell me to root against the Giants, but logically I should be rooting for them, since they aren't a threat in the West. So, I end up getting pleasure out of both outcomes. :)As for the Bums:James Loney is really good, and it's nice to see Ethier play his way into the lineup every day, but I still am seeing too much Juan Pierre for my own good. Last Friday night vs San Diego, in the 9th down by two with two on, Torre let Pierre hit while he had Kemp available. Pierre got a hit, but that's not the point; Kemp has the ability to hit a HR anytime he comes up to the plate, while Juan hasn't hit a HR in almost two years. Even ignoring power, Kemp has just as much speed and ability to put pressure on the defense as Pierre, which is evident by how often he gets infield hits. Sigh.Nice to see Martin hit a HR last night, but he still doesn't look right at the plate. Oh, and Andruw Jones is fat. The Dodgers website has him listed as 210 (LOL), while TJ Simers had him get on a scale the other day and he weighed 248. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 Sigh, where in the f is Livan Hernandez or Shawn Estes when you need them? When do we play Florida, and is there any way Mark Henrickson can start twice in the same series against us?Also, I'd like to apologize for the above post. It was very thoughtless of me to exclude Matt Morris, and overlook how bad he can be. Link to post Share on other sites
jeff_536 3 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Also, I'd like to apologize for the above post. It was very thoughtless of me to exclude Matt Morris, and overlook how bad he can be.cross-posting to the Pirates thread, i would hope. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 cross-posting to the Pirates thread, i would hope.Na, they've had a tough 15 years or so (including having to put up with the micro manager Jim Tracy), I don't want to rub Matt Morris in their face. I try to only target the Giants with my passive aggressive attacks. :)Speaking of which, I have something I've been meaning to ask in the Giants thread.... Link to post Share on other sites
Jackets1407 0 Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Na, they've had a tough 15 years or so (including having to put up with the micro manager Jim Tracy), I don't want to rub Matt Morris in their face. I try to only target the Giants with my passive aggressive attacks. :)Speaking of which, I have something I've been meaning to ask in the Giants thread....Quick question to you Pat and all other Dodgers fans.........facing Kuroda today, how is he looking? Is he like Nomo where hitters have to get to know him or what? He actually scares me a little..... Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 Quick question to you Pat and all other Dodgers fans.........facing Kuroda today, how is he looking? Is he like Nomo where hitters have to get to know him or what? He actually scares me a little.....His last start he wasn't as sharp, but I've been pretty impressed with him thus far. If he has good control ( he was having issues with ML strike zone) then he is kinda like a Lowe-clone with better K numbers. He works quick, gets lot of ground balls, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Jackets1407 0 Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 His last start he wasn't as sharp, but I've been pretty impressed with him thus far. If he has good control ( he was having issues with ML strike zone) then he is kinda like a Lowe-clone with better K numbers. He works quick, gets lot of ground balls, etc.If you are a baseball player you want him to work quick, makes it so much easier for a terrible D......what do you think of Kuroda our announcers love him??? Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 If you are a baseball player you want him to work quick, makes it so much easier for a terrible D......what do you think of Kuroda our announcers love him???I'm sitting outside (nice day) so I can't hear the announcers. Heh I did notice that after Pierre showed off his gun in LF on that 2b, they showed Ethier, so I imagine they were commenting on that whole fiasco.I wasn't quite sure what to expect from Kuroda, but so far so good. I guess in Japan he played on a scrub team his whole career, in a Coors Field-like offensive park, so he always had to work that much harder, which gave him the reputation as a 'gamer'.I love how Dodgers offensive 1/2 innings are over before I even notice they are back from commercial...sigh. Link to post Share on other sites
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