Tipping Dealers

[NYIsles 0]

Maybe this is related...I'd never been out of North America before, but just returned from a week in France, and had my eyes opened about a few things. Ever hear about the stereotypical rudeness of French waiters/waitresses? It's absolutely true. And not just w/r/t foreigners - I witnessed some incredibly rude exhanges between French waiters and patrons.What's interesting is the fact that a 15% gratuity is automatically included on every bill, so there is no tipping involved. At first, I thought that was great, since I usually tip at least 20% when I go to restaurants. But it didn't take too long to dawn on me that this is (at least part of) the reason French waiters and waitresses are so unbelievable rude when compared to those in the US - their rudeness has no effect on their income!Waiting is a pretty tough job - and I would assume that dealing is as well. If dealers no longer relied on the patrons at their tables to provide a significant percentage of their income, perhaps they wouldn't be as inclined to help provide a pleasant experience at the tables.Just my two cents...

[Wilderness 0]

I tip well for someone who does a good job, and have no problem leaving nothing or hardly anything when someone does a bad/horrible job.The only thing that annoys me are the people who always tip 15 or 20%. Its just a pet peeve really, but for jobs that need/depend on tipping, I think that person should have to earn it.

[Smasharoo 0]

I DON'T THINK ANY OF US ARE TALENTED ENOUGH TO MAKE A LIVING PLAYING SLOTS... SO STOP BEING CHEAP AND START TIPPING...Right, I can see lots of cardrooms closing anytime now because it's so unprofitable for them. Poor bastards.

[mba_pokerpro 0]

I DON'T THINK ANY OF US ARE TALENTED ENOUGH TO MAKE A LIVING PLAYING SLOTS... SO STOP BEING CHEAP AND START TIPPING...Right, I can see lots of cardrooms closing anytime now because it's so unprofitable for them.  Poor bastards.

You may be right... but without tipping the good dealers... how long do you think we will have good dealers?? Tipping the good dealers encourages them to do a good job and thus keeps them in that line of work... otherwise the only dealers that will be left will be the crummy ones... and then our EV goes down b/c the games are no good and not entertaining... etc... I hope you see the point in that... on the note of closing pokerrooms... it may not happen... but it has happened in the past... history has a tendency of repeating itself...

[Smasharoo 0]

You may be right... but without tipping the good dealers... how long do you think we will have good dealers?? Forever.They almost allways split tips with the other dealers on the rotation. Not tippy bad dealers isn't ussually costing them any money.What's your theory, that the good dealers get together and beat the bad dealers up in the parking lot if they have a bade collective take?

[johngbrown66 0]

The problem with this is I tend to think that those that dont tip arent really worried about there income, rather saving that 50 bucks a night.I know when I walk in to one of the card rooms and the floor man points me to the most profitable game, whether it be O H S I know the 5 bucks I am giving him are well spent, and the dealer will fill me in as well as to who is who. So it is not really a tip for them doing a good or bad job, but rather a investment that I know they are gonna look out for me and steer me to the most profitable sections. I know Im not the only one ther are quite a few of us that do this and I am glad to say it pays off.

[53o 0]

B/C trust me they could certainly find something better to do with the square footage... like put slot machines in there...

A lot of people don't realize that Poker is a loosing proposition for most B&M casinos. Poker table rake is laughable next to the income that a bank of slots or even a craps or roulette table can bring in. The rake at most lower limit tables is barely enough to pay the dealers their already reduced wage.

[Smasharoo 0]

A lot of people don't realize that Poker is a loosing proposition for most B&M casinos. Poker table rake is laughable next to the income that a bank of slots or even a craps or roulette table can bring in. The rake at most lower limit tables is barely enough to pay the dealers their already reduced wage.That's not even vaguely true. Were it, places like Commerce wouldn't have massive hotels built with rake sitting next to them.Vegas casinos probably make more money from poker players playing other casino games than they do from them playing poker, but they're certianly not LOOSING money by having 100 players in thier house most of whom will play craps or blackjack or whatever when they win and even when they lose.

[superchuck 0]

mormans have to give 10% of everything they earn to the church, ouch!

[53o 0]

That's not even vaguely true.  Were it, places like Commerce wouldn't have massive hotels built with rake sitting next to them.Vegas casinos probably make more money from poker players playing other casino games than they do from them playing poker, but they're certianly not LOOSING money by having 100 players in thier house most of whom will play craps or blackjack or whatever when they win and even when they lose.

I'm not familiar with Commerce. But I doubt that they built a whole hotel with only profit from poker table rake, while still paying operating costs with the same rake. I may be wrong, I just find it unlikely.Secondly, I didn't say they were loosing money.. I said it was a loosing proposition.. Say you were a casino executive and had your choice of a poker table that averaged X$ an hour or a Roulette table that averaged 5X$ an hour. Wouldn't taking choice A be a loosing proposition to you, when you know that choice B would make 5 times as much? The hotels that do have poker rooms have them solely to get the poker playing demographic in the building and spending money on other things: Food, rooms, other games, etc... NOT because of the rake. So yes, in the end they do profit... But not as much as they could with other games in the place of poker tables. This is proven simply by the fact that only a small percentage of casinos have poker rooms at all (though the number is starting to climb, given recent popularity).This is slightly derailing the topic at hand tho.. Which is tipping dealers, and why you should.. To get back on that topic.. you brought up Tokes*. While many hotels use a Tokes system, some do not. All you have to do is ask the dealers or manager to find out. My regular haunt does not use a tokes system. So I know that when I tip a good dealer, the $$ is going directly to them and is not spread among dozens of other people who I haven't even seen.

[mark33f 0]

I don't understand why in society we tip only certain professions? We don't tip our garbage men or service clerks?

[Pupsta 0]

Secondly, I didn't say they were loosing money..  I said it was a loosing proposition..  Say you were a casino executive and had your choice of a poker table that averaged X$ an hour or a Roulette table that averaged 5X$ an hour.  Wouldn't taking choice A be a loosing proposition to you, when you know that choice B would make 5 times as much?  The hotels that do have poker rooms have them solely to get the poker playing demographic in the building and spending money on other things:  Food, rooms, other games, etc...  NOT because of the rake.  So yes, in the end they do profit...  But not as much as they could with other games in the place of poker tables.  This is proven simply by the fact that only a small percentage of casinos have poker rooms at all (though the number is starting to climb, given recent popularity).

This kinda contradicts itself...I'm sure they profit more by having the 100 poker players in the building, paying rake and buying food and probably playing other games, compared to the slots they could put in that would attract....nobody since rarely are all slots occupied anyway.

[Smasharoo 0]

I'm not familiar with Commerce. But I doubt that they built a whole hotel with only profit from poker table rake, while still paying operating costs with the same rake. I may be wrong, I just find it unlikely. All they did for decades was collect poker rake or seat time.Billions in poker rake and seat time.With a B.

[rog 0]

They almost allways split tips with the other dealers on the rotation.  Not tippy bad dealers isn't ussually costing them any money.What's your theory, that the good dealers get together and beat the bad dealers up in the parking lot if they have a bade collective take?

I dont know about dealers, but I know a lot of people who wait tables. Places where the tips are split, they know who the earners are, and who's free-loading. No, they dont get beat up in the parking lot, but they get what's coming. Most dont end up working there very long if they're not improving. rg

[jklimtsc 0]

Clearly you have never worked in the service industry. These people rely on tips to make a decent living. Perhaps if there were fewer people like you playing at these tables we would have some better dealers. Don't forget if a dealer sees that people are tipping other dealers for doing a good job, ie. fast and mistake free dealing, perhaps it will encourage them to become better at what they do. If your tipping $1 each pot has the result of you getting to play an extra 5 hands an hour because the dealers are working harder for you tips, isn't that good for you?? Maybe we should all make it a habit of tipping good dealers and not tipping bad ones. I think this will make it better for everyone.

[mba_pokerpro 0]

You may be right... but without tipping the good dealers... how long do you think we will have good dealers??  Forever.They almost allways split tips with the other dealers on the rotation.  Not tippy bad dealers isn't ussually costing them any money.What's your theory, that the good dealers get together and beat the bad dealers up in the parking lot if they have a bade collective take?

My theory is that the good dealers are intelligent enough to figure out if they are getting stiffed by people and could make more doing something else then they are going to get a better job... leaving us with bad dealers!That's not even vaguely true. Were it, places like Commerce wouldn't have massive hotels built with rake sitting next to them. Vegas casinos probably make more money from poker players playing other casino games than they do from them playing poker, but they're certianly not LOOSING money by having 100 players in thier house most of whom will play craps or blackjack or whatever when they win and even when they lose.First off... commerce and CA in general were a unique situation before Indian Casinos in that poker and the various games they offer were the only forms of gambling allowed in the state. Commerce was built as a poker room b/c of a de facto monopoly on gambling b/c other casino games which are more profitable could not be offered.As far as offering a poker room for casinos... it is an oppurtunity cost... the lost square footage is less profitable... but with the recent boon in popularity... you have increased interest and now increased traffic... the casino makes their money when they are able to hold over the crowd once they are done playing poker...The gaming industry is all about driving traffic through the door and then getting them to stay for a signficant amount of time... right now poker is something that can drive traffic... but it is not the most profitable usage of square footage for a casino... thus if the popularity dries up... we could run into the same problem we had a few years ago... limited places to play...

[53o 0]

This kinda contradicts itself...I'm sure they profit more by having the 100 poker players in the building, paying rake and buying food and probably playing other games, compared to the slots they could put in that would attract....nobody since rarely are all slots occupied anyway.

I understand that it's kind of an odd statement. But in reality it's true. Ever try to find a low limit blackjack table in a busy casino? It's hard as hell because they always fill up. Slot machines may always be available but it only takes one or two people at a bank of slot machines to make it earn more than a full poker table does. Many casino's [in Vegas] opt to fill their space with these games rather than poker tables because they consistantly make more money for the house than a poker table does.

[hoof31 0]

If they're doing their job. throw a buck. It's part of how they make a living.

[Guest]

This kinda contradicts itself...I'm sure they profit more by having the 100 poker players in the building, paying rake and buying food and probably playing other games, compared to the slots they could put in that would attract....nobody since rarely are all slots occupied anyway.

75 to 80 Percent of all casino earnings in Atlantic City are from slots. Slot players are comped far better than a regular table game player.

[cardtarget 0]

For those of you that have asked "how much", I don't think anyone has responded yet.Doyle Brunson recommends $1 for pots under $50, $2 from $50-$200ish and use your judgement above that...I don't know if it was in super system or in the poker stories book, but I'm 99% sure it was Doyle.

[KidKanuck 0]

For those of you that have asked "how much", I don't think anyone has responded yet.Doyle Brunson recommends $1 for pots under $50, $2 from $50-$200ish and use your judgement above that...I don't know if it was in super system or in the poker stories book, but I'm 99% sure it was Doyle.

thanks for the response.I was wondering what people think about a policy of tipping the dealer at the end of his/her session based on your winnings.ie: up $50 in a session tip $x at the end of the session. down $50 in a session tip $y at the end of the session.for the record I fully intend to tip as I was a waiter for a couple of years and I do understand the need for tips (however I do refuse to tip brutal service).I bring this method up as I think I would handle over tipping when I'm winning and under tipping when Im losing rather than a flat tip per pot.would this be fair to the dealer?like I said in an earlier post I am a newbie to live casino games so this may sound like crap.KK

[Smasharoo 0]

First off... commerce and CA in general were a unique situation before Indian Casinos in that poker and the various games they offer were the only forms of gambling allowed in the state. Commerce was built as a poker room b/c of a de facto monopoly on gambling b/c other casino games which are more profitable could not be offeredSure, the fact that they have the largest cardroom in the world and a 20 story hotel kind of demonstrates that the argument that poker looses money is complete horseshit though, don't you think?

[mba_pokerpro 0]

First off... commerce and CA in general were a unique situation before Indian Casinos in that poker and the various games they offer were the only forms of gambling allowed in the state. Commerce was built as a poker room b/c of a de facto monopoly on gambling b/c other casino games which are more profitable could not be offeredSure, the fact that they have the largest cardroom in the world and a 20 story hotel kind of demonstrates that the argument that poker looses money is complete censored though, don't you think?

I never said that they don't make money having their poker rooms... what I said was that they don't make as much money on a square footage basis as they would if there was a bank of slot machines instead!!Commerce is the biggest card room in the world b/c it is in the biggest state in the US... which outside of Indian casinos does not allow for casinos to exist... just card rooms and games of skill can be played according to CA law.... So the fact that CA is biggest state and people like to gamble in general... but can't play games like craps and BJ in CA... Commerce and the such have a de facto monopoly... and therefore have prospered in the absence of true casino competition.

[Smasharoo 0]

So the fact that CA is biggest state and people like to gamble in general... but can't play games like craps and BJ in CA... Commerce and the such have a de facto monopoly... and therefore have prospered in the absence of true casino competition.I see. So in a state where certain forms of gambling are legal, the many diffrent companies who proivde that sort of entertainment don't compete, they have a monoply.Like Vegas, you mean?

[mba_pokerpro 0]

So the fact that CA is biggest state and people like to gamble in general... but can't play games like craps and BJ in CA... Commerce and the such have a de facto monopoly... and therefore have prospered in the absence of true casino competition.I see.  So in a state where certain forms of gambling are legal, the many diffrent companies who proivde that sort of entertainment don't compete, they have a monoply.Like Vegas, you mean?

No just implying that if other casino games were legal in CA... commerce may not be as big...Don't get me wrong love the commerce... just pointing out the effects of the market situation on the economics of the matter...