Acid_Knight 2 Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 What was the conversation like between the dealer and the Brit like before you raised? Could you be more specific with what happened during this exchange?He just told him that he meant to call. There was no discussion about the bet amount being changed since he seemed to know that once it was in the pot, it couldn't be taken back. As soon as the dealer said that it's a legal raise to $35, there was no more discussion and I chose to announce a reraise. Link to post Share on other sites
StilettoNole 0 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 To me, this is a shove. I don't think this "oops, I min-raised" thing is him being tricky. I'll bet he meant to flat call with a suited A-J, then couldn't lay it down to your re-raise because he was sick that he already had $35 in the pot. I think he is raising you here hoping that you have A-K. I shove. Link to post Share on other sites
Willing 2 Die 0 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 He just told him that he meant to call. There was no discussion about the bet amount being changed since he seemed to know that once it was in the pot, it couldn't be taken back. As soon as the dealer said that it's a legal raise to $35, there was no more discussion and I chose to announce a reraise.Ok, the more that this is explained, the more i'm trying to rationalize a fold here.I guess its even more tough having to play this hand at that moment, rather than replaying it over and over again on a forum. Either way, i find this hand very intriguing....alot of details that most people probably don't recognize or pay attention to while they are playing that could all add up to tell the story of what he has even before you see the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Willing 2 Die 0 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 To me, this is a shove. I don't think this "oops, I min-raised" thing is him being tricky. I'll bet he meant to flat call with a suited A-J, then couldn't lay it down to your re-raise because he was sick that he already had $35 in the pot. I think he is raising you here hoping that you have A-K. I shove.He's tight. He's not going to bluff-raise OOP in this spot. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 To me, this is a shove. I don't think this "oops, I min-raised" thing is him being tricky. I'll bet he meant to flat call with a suited A-J, then couldn't lay it down to your re-raise because he was sick that he already had $35 in the pot. I think he is raising you here hoping that you have A-K. I shove.This seems way too specific. If he doesn't have AJ, then your story doesn't make sense. You should find a range of hands that make sense. Link to post Share on other sites
rvrchsrhtr 0 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I shove-----I think he puts you on a steal here. If the "accidental raise" was an angle play and he did it well enough to fool me so be it. Not to mention you already have a 1/3 of your stack in the pot. I say gambooooool Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 Not to mention you already have a 1/3 of your stack in the pot. I say gamboooooolI'll save Zach the trouble.The amount I've stuck in the pot has nothing to do with anything. I'm not here to gamble. Link to post Share on other sites
Influcted 0 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I fold it. He could have J J aswell, or Kings/Aces. Don't see you ahead here. Link to post Share on other sites
DCJ001 0 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Meh, look at that board. What am I worried about?AA, KK, JJ? Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 AA, KK, JJ?He meant, "What am I worried about being outdrawn by?" Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 The villain is the BB. He's a British guy who is on the tight side, but he also makes lots of weird bets and calls. Generally when he's putting money in, he's got a hand from what I've seen so far.Really hard to fold here but I think I do. Hand is just to f-ed up, and I never win f-ed up hands. And I agree ... Brits do play weird. But they're fun to play with. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Brits do play a lot better than us Yanks.Obv. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Obv.lol Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 He meant, "What am I worried about being outdrawn by?"Indeed. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Post the results Acid. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 Post the results Acid. This hand didn't exactly happen.The real hand that happened included identical preflop action except I held KK and not QQ. The flop was A35r and he c/cd a $90 bet from me. The turn went chk chk and the river he fired $150 into me and I folded telling him he had a set of aces, which he showed me.He insisted that I was lucky it wasn't a low flop or I'd have gone broke. I said that while I lost less than I would've, I didn't need to go broke on this hand because the preflop action becomes transparent if he actually appears to be interested in the pot post flop.I made up the hand in the OP as an example of a pretty clear fold to illustrate this idea. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Two thoughts: Is this legitimate sneakiness or angle shooting? He probably cost himself a lot of money versus just putting in a normal rereaise. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Two thoughts:Is this legitimate sneakiness or angle shooting? Yep, angleshoot = fold, non angleshoot = shove. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 Two thoughts:Is this legitimate sneakiness or angle shooting? He probably cost himself a lot of money versus just putting in a normal rereaise. I don't think it's the best etiquette I suppose, but it's not much different than giving off any other false tells. He's just leading me to believe something that isn't true. I don't think it's something that I'd ever do, but that doesn't make it dishonest. You know what I mean - he's not breaking or bending any rules, so I can't see anything wrong with it.Yeah, he did cost himself a lot of money. Link to post Share on other sites
mhoward29 0 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I fold it. He could have J J aswell, or Kings/Aces. Don't see you ahead here.What does that shirt in your avatar say? Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I don't think it's the best etiquette I suppose, but it's not much different than giving off any other false tells. He's just leading me to believe something that isn't true. I don't think it's something that I'd ever do, but that doesn't make it dishonest. You know what I mean - he's not breaking or bending any rules, so I can't see anything wrong with it.Yeah, he did cost himself a lot of money.What would you have done if he'd shoved or come over the top of you after you reraised to 100 preflop? Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Before reading "results", I was definitely thinking "fold while annoyed". To be honest, I look at it "deeper". I'm sort of considering his hand, but I'm definitely influenced by the fact that we've made our hand very transparent, and yet he's still coming on this dry board. Yeah, AK re-re-raises here sometimes in Acid's spot online...but I find re-re-raises in a live setting...particularly at these stakes...particularly at this casino...are very rare. That means that after all of this action, Acid usually has AA/KK/QQ with a small chance of AK/JJ. Why should the guy go all-in pre-flop with AA/KK/JJ? There's not much point. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Why should the guy go all-in pre-flop with AA/KK/JJ? There's not much point.I was just wondering what the best way to get alot of money from an UTG raiser in a spot like this is. I was thinking against advanced guys just a call from the blinds would be better though. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted December 14, 2007 Author Share Posted December 14, 2007 What would you have done if he'd shoved or come over the top of you after you reraised to 100 preflop?With QQ, I'd isntafold.In the real hand with KK, I think I'd fold there too. It was just too likely he had AA.Oh yeah, and we don't fold KK preflop in this forum. Remember that. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 With QQ, I'd isntafold.In the real hand with KK, I think I'd fold there too. It was just too likely he had AA.Oh yeah, and we don't fold KK preflop in this forum. Remember that. I sure as hell won't be, but then again I do play at micro. Link to post Share on other sites
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