Mormons

[El Guapo 8]

This is so frustrating (probably for you too).Look, the fact that you don't think the mormon religion is correct has NOTHING to do with me saying you're a bigot. It's the fact that you take your belief that the mormon religion is incorrect (and for the hardcore ones, crazy) and let it bring you to conclusions like "no knowledgable person should vote for a Mormon, ever". I'm saying that, by this logic, nobody should ever vote for anyone of another religion. Like I said, I think that a lot of Christian beliefs are insane, and I can't believe that any logical human being would ever buy into it. BUT, I understand that for something as important as voting for the president, it's critical to lay aside pre-judgements like that and look at the man himself (or silly little woman that's trying to run). Read Romney's wiki bio. He's not a religious nut. He has never been accused of playing favorites with other mormons in any way. He isn't into polygamy. He doesn't beat his wife. And as for not wanting to vote for a mormon because a few mormon nutjobs say that it's their destiny to take over the country, give me a break. Every nutjob thinks it's his destiny to control the world, hardcore mormon's don't have a monopoly on that. And, as I said before, it's not like mormons are the only ones that try to spread their faith.You can have an opinion on a religion as a whole. It becomes bigotry when your steriotype makes you pre-judge everyone of that faith, regardless of who they are and what they've done.How do you not see the distinction here? What is it that I'm not explaining correctly?

I think we are saying some of the same stuff in different directions. I do not dislike or hate anyone because they are Mormon, but I would not vote for a Mormon because of what I know of their church and how they influence politically. That is a difference of opinion of belief systems. I do not believe that I said no knowledgeable person can vote for a Mormon, if I did I misspoke.big·ot·ry /ˈbɪgətri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[big-uh-tree] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun, plural -ries. 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own. 2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot. I am not intolerant of Mormons individually, I worked for one for 3 years and at the time was probably one of my best friends. He married into the Mormon religion and before that he was a strong non-denominational Christian. When he stopped going to the Mormon church he was threatened by the church to have his family taken away from him, he was afraid of coming home one day and having his wife and 4 children be gone. It was a valid fear, and he was forced to continue attending church through this blackmail. We were trying to get a small start up software company off the ground, and the church tried to get their hands on the company and only wanted Mormon investors and blocked him from getting at other money.So when there is a system in place like that, I have a hard time believing that anyone involved in an organization like this cannot not be influenced by it, especially in the most powerful position in the world. I'm sure someone could say the same thing about George Bush and his speculated membership with skull and crossbones, if you believe that is an immoral organization that does terrible things and you do not think Bush can operate without their influence then you should not vote for him.Our beliefs are bred from our experiences in life and we have to make judgments based on the best available knowledge that you have. Based on the knowledge I know of the Mormon church I could not vote for a Mormon. In my mind that is the same as not being able to vote for someone who is pro abortion if you are completely pro choice. I do not see the difference, you obliviously do.

[speedz99 145]

I think we are saying some of the same stuff in different directions. I do not dislike or hate anyone because they are Mormon, but I would not vote for a Mormon because of what I know of their church and how they influence politically.

You obviously haven't really paid attention to anything I wrote. I'm in disbelief at how dense you're being about this. I guess we're done here.

[El Guapo 8]

You obviously haven't really paid attention to anything I wrote. I'm in disbelief at how dense you're being about this. I guess we're done here.

Guess so

[SBriand 4]

You obviously haven't really paid attention to anything I wrote. I'm in disbelief at how dense you're being about this. I guess we're done here.

Guess so

Okay this is bothering me now. Well not really but I feel like wasting time at work responding to this side story.I am not going to commit to agreeing or disagreeing with Speedz but what he is saying is pretty clear.Maybe examples will help.I won't vote for Obama because he is black. I won't vote for any black candidate or even bother to learn anything about them because they are black. I have a few friends who were robbed and beaten by a couple black guys. I lived in an area where there are some black people down the street and they would make a lot of noise. I also worked with a black person before and he would steal office supplies. Black people are nutjobs. Obama is black so he must do or have done things those black people did, though I won't actually research that, so no way would I ever vote for him or any black person.That is essentially the conversation I have read so far.

[El Guapo 8]

Okay this is bothering me now. Well not really but I feel like wasting time at work responding to this side story.I am not going to commit to agreeing or disagreeing with Speedz but what he is saying is pretty clear.Maybe examples will help.I won't vote for Obama because he is black. I won't vote for any black candidate or even bother to learn anything about them because they are black. I have a few friends who were robbed and beaten by a couple black guys. I lived in an area where there are some black people down the street and they would make a lot of noise. I also worked with a black person before and he would steal office supplies. Black people are nutjobs. Obama is black so he must do or have done things those black people did, though I won't actually research that, so no way would I ever vote for him or any black person.That is essentially the conversation I have read so far.

Being black is not a set of ideological beliefs, not voting for someone because they are black is racist, not voting for someone because you do not believe in their belief system is what everyone in this country does when they go to polls one way or another.

[SBriand 4]

Being black is not a set of ideological beliefs, not voting for someone because they are black is racist, not voting for someone because you do not believe in their belief system is what everyone in this country does when they go to polls one way or another.

Okay, you are taking the example to literally. So I won't bother to repeat myself there. You make no sense. Not trying to be a dick but you don't.You are not voting for Mittens because you "think" you know his belief system. You "think" that because he is Mormon he is "whatever you think of Mormons". You have admitted more than once you know nothing of Mittens and you "assume" that he is a wacky nutjob Mormon. You not only "assume" you also made statements that were completely 110% false about him and his beliefs. You prejudged the man based on one simple fact, he is Mormon. You have judged him as a certain person because of his religious belief without even bothering to see what he is actually about. I believe speedz recommended you to actually learn what he believes. If you sat here and posted all these issues about his foreign policy or his stance on healthcare reform and said you wouldn't vote for him for his "plans" on these issues, then fine. But you didn't. You didn't even come close. You heard he was a Mormon and decided right then and there that this is a person who will kill people and will try and become the next Hitler. You said it, you compared Mormons to Nazi's. Now I know how Matt felt. Sorry, I will just let it go.

[El Guapo 8]

Okay, you are taking the example to literally. So I won't bother to repeat myself there. You make no sense. Not trying to be a dick but you don't.You are not voting for Mittens because you "think" you know his belief system. You "think" that because he is Mormon he is "whatever you think of Mormons". You have admitted more than once you know nothing of Mittens and you "assume" that he is a wacky nutjob Mormon. You not only "assume" you also made statements that were completely 110% false about him and his beliefs. You prejudged the man based on one simple fact, he is Mormon. You have judged him as a certain person because of his religious belief without even bothering to see what he is actually about. I believe speedz recommended you to actually learn what he believes. If you sat here and posted all these issues about his foreign policy or his stance on healthcare reform and said you wouldn't vote for him for his "plans" on these issues, then fine. But you didn't. You didn't even come close. You heard he was a Mormon and decided right then and there that this is a person who will kill people and will try and become the next Hitler. You said it, you compared Mormons to Nazi's. Now I know how Matt felt. Sorry, I will just let it go.

Look this whole discussion came about because BG had a quandry that he liked what Mitt had to say but did not believe in his religion. No matter what he believes about foreign policy I do not believe he can spererate that from his religion, sorry but that is the way I feel, as much as he has said it won't affect him. So BG had that question and I answered it, now I am getting ostercized because of it. I do not assume he is a wacky nut job mormon, I know nothing about him, but no I would not vote for him because of that. Does not mean that I would not be friends with him or think he is a good person. I am guessing people don't understand how I can make that distinction, maybe I am not explaining it very well, I'm not sure. I also never said he was a person who would kill people that is ludacris, I was talking about the mormon extremeists, but even the non extrememist are brainwashed and have to deal with a lot of BS from that religion.I am not trying to convince anybody to agree with me, its just how I feel. I don't hate mormons, I don't hate Romney, as you stated I really know nothing about him, I am speaking in generalities. I would imagine a Christian would have a real hard time voting for say Joe Lieberman because he is Jewish and they do not share the same personal belief system. I also believe that it would be hard for a lot of Christians to vote for a Muslim because the do not share the same belief system.I know I am not going to win this, whatever. I just don't like being called a bigot because I disagree with someone beliefs.

[Jeepster80125 0]

No matter what he believes about foreign policy I do not believe he can spererate that from his religionI think this statement alone completely and totally discredits whatever it is you are trying to argue.I would really like for you to explain what you mean here, in that people 'can't separate [beliefs] from ... religion'.Please?

[El Guapo 8]

No matter what he believes about foreign policy I do not believe he can spererate that from his religionI think this statement alone completely and totally discredits whatever it is you are trying to argue.I would really like for you to explain what you mean here, in that people 'can't separate [beliefs] from ... religion'.Please?

Look I am sorry that if I am offending people here, I really am not trying to.What I am saying is that I do not trust the Mormon church and I do not believe that anyone who is a devote mormon can be in the most supreme position of power and not be influenced to make decisions that the Church wants. I am not saying this is 100% for sure, but it is how I feel. Do I think that church is trying to place him there to take over the world, no ofcourse not. I guess it is possible that Mitt is a very honest and respectalbe person and would not let the Mormon church influence him, but it is not something I would want to worry about, hence I would not vote for him because of that.I would feel the same way about a devout Scientoligist, I would never vote for one in a million years. Hope that helps explain it a little better as I feel like I am talking in circles.

[Balloon guy 158]

El Guapo it's not you.There is an undertone of 'any reason to bash Christians' in this section of the forum. You missed jumping on this bandwagon and stayed on topic after the derail to try to turn this into a Christians are just as bad as mormons debate. It is exactly like the gun nuts that take any and all topics, turn it into the government is out to take away your guns, then tell you why you need to understand why you are a fool for not joining them and recanting your beliefs. I must admit I kind of laughed at them attacking you since you probably are 90% closer in alignment with what they believe religiously then you are with me, yet they couldn't look past the thought that if you don't lump all religions in the same group, then you are in danger of saying Christianity is semi-normal. Gasp.If Mitt was a scientologist or an islamic fundentalist, then they might have lasted a page or two longer, but eventually it was pre-ordained to turn into: Well Christians are stupid too.Many people are incapable of accepting that people can believe something 100% different then them and still get along with them. You and I are don't have this problem, you are mostly agnostic, I am mostly born again, yet we can talk about the topic this thread is about and leave it there. I am not offended that you believe different, and last I checked the entire universe didn't elect me to correct every person that is wrong ( although it would really be smart of the universe to do just that) Others feel that you need to group all people that don't believe in the pure beauty that is darwinian evolution as one group of confused foolish brain washed fools that really don't ever think for themselves. They also think when they are not answered because of their tone and arrogance that they won the debate.Their bigotry is no different than any other one track minded people from abortionist to gun nuts, but their minds are closed to the possibility that they can actually be wrong. And when confronted, they attack the messanger, rather than step back and see their arrogance. But this is because they are in darkness and they hate the light.Other here refuse to understand that mormonism isn't being bashed becasue they are a different team than mine, they are being bashed because they have at their central core of teaching and practise some issues that are disturbing to say the least. There is a reason why the mormon religion has a 3 times higher rate of incest than the national average, and I think it's much higher than that for spousal abuse. Their women are also the highest group to seek phsycological help of any other demographic. Why wouldn't they be, the lot of a mormon women is to be pregant for eternity along with thier husbands other 10,000 wives.Now is the part where I am told why I am clearly not seeing what they see, that you are a psuedo-racist for thinking that the mormons you know and the things you know about mormonism cannot be used to judge them because they are no different than Christians, even though they clearly are.So back to topic, you are saying you could never vote for a mormon no matter what? Or are you saying you cannot vote for a mormon if that is all you know about him, but should he be near perfect except for his mormonism, you could get past it?I am partly worried also that if I do decide to vote for Mitt, then the mormon religion will get brought out for what it is and I believe that should Mitt be the republican candidate, that a well planned attack on his mormonism could result in a democrat getting the office, which could be much worse than a mormon. So is his mormonism a skeleton that could bring down the entire election? This should be looked at in a purely political tactical term, not a religious one.This is why I think now there is not more being made about Obama's church and their anti-white message that their pastor espouses. The republicans are saving that heat for after the primaries when the democrats will have made their choice for prez.Of course for me this is all moot since I am voting for Huckabee cause my pastor told me I will go to hell if I don't, plus it will piss off crow so win/win for me.

[El Guapo 8]

El Guapo it's not you.There is an undertone of 'any reason to bash Christians' in this section of the forum. You missed jumping on this bandwagon and stayed on topic after the derail to try to turn this into a Christians are just as bad as mormons debate. It is exactly like the gun nuts that take any and all topics, turn it into the government is out to take away your guns, then tell you why you need to understand why you are a fool for not joining them and recanting your beliefs. I must admit I kind of laughed at them attacking you since you probably are 90% closer in alignment with what they believe religiously then you are with me, yet they couldn't look past the thought that if you don't lump all religions in the same group, then you are in danger of saying Christianity is semi-normal. Gasp.If Mitt was a scientologist or an islamic fundentalist, then they might have lasted a page or two longer, but eventually it was pre-ordained to turn into: Well Christians are stupid too.Many people are incapable of accepting that people can believe something 100% different then them and still get along with them. You and I are don't have this problem, you are mostly agnostic, I am mostly born again, yet we can talk about the topic this thread is about and leave it there. I am not offended that you believe different, and last I checked the entire universe didn't elect me to correct every person that is wrong ( although it would really be smart of the universe to do just that) Others feel that you need to group all people that don't believe in the pure beauty that is darwinian evolution as one group of confused foolish brain washed fools that really don't ever think for themselves. They also think when they are not answered because of their tone and arrogance that they won the debate.Their bigotry is no different than any other one track minded people from abortionist to gun nuts, but their minds are closed to the possibility that they can actually be wrong. And when confronted, they attack the messanger, rather than step back and see their arrogance. But this is because they are in darkness and they hate the light.Now is the part where I am told why I am clearly not seeing what they see, that you are a psuedo-racist for thinking that the mormons you know and the things you know about mormonism cannot be used to judge them because they are no different than Christians, even though they clearly are.So back to topic, you are saying you could never vote for a mormon no matter what? Or are you saying you cannot vote for a mormon if that is all you know about him, but should he be near perfect except for his mormonism, you could get past it?I would never say never, but with the limited information I have right now on the candidate at hand, I could not vote for him as a mormon because of my fellings about the church and the undo influence I believe they will have on a mormon presidentI am partly worried also that if I do decide to vote for Mitt, then the mormon religion will get brought out for what it is and I believe that should Mitt be the republican candidate, that a well planned attack on his mormonism could result in a democrat getting the office, which could be much worse than a mormon. So is his mormonism a skeleton that could bring down the entire election? This should be looked at in a purely political tactical term, not a religious one.I fully agree with thisThis is why I think now there is not more being made about Obama's church and their anti-white message that their pastor espouses. The republicans are saving that heat for after the primaries when the democrats will have made their choice for prez.

Thank you, I thought I was taking crazy pills there for a minute.I have gone back and forth on my own religious beliefs or lack there of, I really do not believe in organized religion of any kind as I think the money and power corrupt most. I do not beget anyone for attending church, being a particular relgion or anything like that, in my mind whatever personally gets you through the day and makes you feel good about yourself on this planet and the afterlife. As long as you are a good person, treat your family and fellow man with respect I could really care less what your religion is.

[Balloon guy 158]

Thank you, I thought I was taking crazy pills there for a minute.I have gone back and forth on my own religious beliefs or lack there of, I really do not believe in organized religion of any kind as I think the money and power corrupt most. I do not beget anyone for attending church, being a particular relgion or anything like that, in my mind whatever personally gets you through the day and makes you feel good about yourself on this planet and the afterlife. As long as you are a good person, treat your family and fellow man with respect I could really care less what your religion is.

You can care less because you are a racist, homophobic bigot! Admit it!

[crowTrobot 2]

There is an undertone of 'any reason to bash Christians' in this section of the forum.

not at all, but there is an undertone to point out the obvious double standards in use. if you were a hindu arguing that mormonism is insane you wouldn't get any better treatment

[El Guapo 8]

not at all, but there is an undertone to point out the obvious double standards in use. if you were a hindu arguing that mormonism is insane you wouldn't get any better treatment

So your arguement is that one religion is insane then they all must be?

[crowTrobot 2]

So your arguement is that one religion is insane then they all must be?

i didn't say that. was just pointing out that nobody is really bashing christianity in this thread - they are bashing dangerous double standards.

[El Guapo 8]

i didn't say that. was just pointing out that nobody is really bashing christianity in this thread - they are bashing dangerous double standards.

This thread had nothing to do with christianity

[crowTrobot 2]

This thread had nothing to do with christianity

it has everything to do with favoring christian candidates over romney because mormonism is somehow a more crazy or more dangerous belief system. it isn't - they are both crazy and dangerous.

[El Guapo 8]

it has everything to do with favoring christian candidates over romney because mormonism is somehow a more crazy or more dangerous belief system. it isn't - they are both crazy and dangerous.

It just so happens that the other candidates are chritian, because we are primarily a christian nation, but your logic is flawed.

[crowTrobot 2]

It just so happens that the other candidates are chritian, because we are primarily a christian nation, but your logic is flawed.

you wouldn't know since you haven't understood a thing i've said.all of the candidates hold crazy, dangerous religious belief - not just the mormon one. singling him out because his religion is less mainstream than the others is prejudice, and a logically stupid way to choose candidates. instead you should be asking which candidate takes his beliefs least seriously - which candidate is least likely to let his crazy core religious belief influence his presidential agenda. romney is no worse than other republicans in that respect - probably in the middle somewhere (huckabee on the extreme end).

[El Guapo 8]

you wouldn't know since you haven't understood a thing i've said.all of the candidates hold crazy, dangerous religious belief - not just the mormon one. singling him out because his religion is less mainstream than the others is prejudice, and a logically stupid way to choose candidates. instead you should be asking which candidate takes his beliefs least seriously - which candidate is least likely to let his crazy core religious belief influence his presidential agenda. romney is no worse than other republicans in that respect - probably in the middle somewhere (huckabee on the extreme end).

And you sir have obvioulsy not understood the point of this thread. It was not a debate of which candidate has a less crazy religion, the OP asked specifically about Romney, hence the reason we are discussing him. If you want to start a new thread about the religious beliefs of each candidate and how that is applicable to their run for presidency, so be it. But that has nothing to do with this thread, it was very specific.And where do get that every candidate holds crazy religious beliefs from? As according to whom? You? That is a matter of debate, and personal belief and preference. You have shown yourself to be against all religion, which again has nothing to do with this specific topic.There is no right or wrong answer here.

[crowTrobot 2]

And you sir have obvioulsy not understood the point of this thread. It was not a debate of which candidate has a less crazy religion

actually that's exactly what it is - the "OP" is a fundamentalist christian asking whether he should vote for a mormon because he thinks they have crazy beliefs. that begs the comparison - you can't even logically answer that question without judging christianity one way or the other.

the OP asked specifically about Romney, hence the reason we are discussing him.

if you endorse rejecting him based on the specifics of his faith without any consideration of the other candidates, how do you know you won't be left with something worse?

And where do get that every candidate holds crazy religious beliefs from?

seeing as how all the other candidates are fundamentalist christians and you apparently don't believe in fundamentalist christianity, i don't understand the question. are you saying you think it's somehow less crazy to believe in answered prayer, angels, the divinity of jesus, creationism, or that all non-christians are going to hell for eternity than to believe the first americans were a lost tribe of israel? you think that baptizing the dead is somehow crazier than baptizing the living? again i'm arguing this because i think it's misguided to reject candidates over crazy specifics of their faith. the issue should be how seriously they take them. for example romney apparently believes in evolution while huckabee, for purely biblical reasons, does not. who's taking their faith more seriously?

[El Guapo 8]

actually that's exactly what it is - the "OP" is a fundamentalist christian asking whether he should vote for a mormon because he thinks they have crazy beliefs. that begs the comparison - you can't even logically answer that question without judging christianity one way or the other.But he was not asking the questions based on his faith, at least I did not take it that wayif you endorse rejecting him based on the specifics of his faith without any consideration of the other candidates, how do you know you won't be left with something worse?Possible, but again but I was not trying to figure out which one had the least offensive religion to meseeing as how you apparently don't believe in fundamentalist christianity i don't understand the question. are you saying you think it's somehow less crazy to believe in answered prayer, angels, the divinity of jesus, creationism, or that all non-christians are going to hell for eternity than to believe the first americans were a lost tribe of israel? you think that baptizing the dead is somehow crazier than baptizing the living? Some times I do and some times I do not, its not easy for me, or black and white as to the existence of god/heaven/satan/angels etc. That is the definition of agnostic, I am not saying there is not a god, I am saying that I do not know for sure or not. Christian would say I lack faithagain i'm arguing this because i think it's misguided to reject candidates over crazy specifics of their faith. the issue should be how seriously they take them. for example romney apparently believes in evolution and huckabee, for purely biblical reasons, does not. who's taking their faith more seriously?I do not disagree with this at all, even though I am a strong republican, I would prefer a candidate that did not flaunt his religion or take it too seriously. But again, I do not even really consider Mormonism a true religion for all the reasons myself and BG said. But you and I arguing that would be semantics because we are not going to see eye to eye on any of this. This is why religious debate can be so heated and people get their feelings hurt, even in the same church people have very different outlooks.

[David_Nicoson 1]

I would really like for you to explain what you mean here, in that people 'can't separate [beliefs] from ... religion'.

I think a religion which can be separated from one's beliefs about important things is empty. It misses the point of a religion, imho.

[pele_br 0]

i didn't say that. was just pointing out that nobody is really bashing christianity in this thread - they are bashing dangerous double standards.

El Guapo, I don't think you have been bashed at all during this discussion, and it is normal for debates such as this to veer off the OP. I also understand where you are coming from, and I get what you are saying. I also think that everyone else also gets what you are saying. However, I don't think you understand where we are coming from. I think that Crow's quote from above summarizes very simply our approach to this issue. I, for example, do not know enough about the presidential candidates (policywise, or beliefs) in order to contribute to the debate in those regards.But, I can make contributions regarding the double-standards being used when we talk about a Mormon candidate, or a Jewish candidate, or a Christian one. As I have stated earlier, objectively speaking ALL religions should be scrutinized in the same way. We atheists, are baffled how people can use a set of standards to completely disregards one religion (be it Scientology, Islam or Mormonism) and CHOOSE to not to use these same standards to analyze their own religion. This is where we feel compelled to intervene. Especially since there have been countless other threads in the religion forum where BG, brvheart and Lois have expressed their opinions, beliefs and worldviews. It just so happens that in this thread, This double-standard is exposed and we feel compelled to address this issue.I don't want to repeat myself, or repeat what others have said, but here it goes:The EXACT same standards used by people to dismiss one religion can be used to dismiss EVERY other religion. It's as simple as that. If someone chooses to use logic and science to discredit Mormonism, we expect them to use them to analyze their own beliefs as well (is this too much to ask?).Which is why Atheists are very similar to ANY religious person. We just use our logic and knowledge to not believe in 1 more religion than them.Christianity is JUST as crazy as Mormonism, which is just as crazy as Islam, which is just as crazy as Satanism, which is just as crazy as Hinduism...ad infinitum

[Balloon guy 158]

El Guapo, I don't think you have been bashed at all during this discussion, and it is normal for debates such as this to veer off the OP. I also understand where you are coming from, and I get what you are saying. I also think that everyone else also gets what you are saying. However, I don't think you understand where we are coming from. I think that Crow's quote from above summarizes very simply our approach to this issue. I, for example, do not know enough about the presidential candidates (policywise, or beliefs) in order to contribute to the debate in those regards.But, I can make contributions regarding the double-standards being used when we talk about a Mormon candidate, or a Jewish candidate, or a Christian one. As I have stated earlier, objectively speaking ALL religions should be scrutinized in the same way. We atheists, are baffled how people can use a set of standards to completely disregards one religion (be it Scientology, Islam or Mormonism) and CHOOSE to not to use these same standards to analyze their own religion. This is where we feel compelled to intervene. Especially since there have been countless other threads in the religion forum where BG, brvheart and Lois have expressed their opinions, beliefs and worldviews. It just so happens that in this thread, This double-standard is exposed and we feel compelled to address this issue.I don't want to repeat myself, or repeat what others have said, but here it goes:The EXACT same standards used by people to dismiss one religion can be used to dismiss EVERY other religion. It's as simple as that. If someone chooses to use logic and science to discredit Mormonism, we expect them to use them to analyze their own beliefs as well (is this too much to ask?).Which is why Atheists are very similar to ANY religious person. We just use our logic and knowledge to not believe in 1 more religion than them.Christianity is JUST as crazy as Mormonism, which is just as crazy as Islam, which is just as crazy as Satanism, which is just as crazy as Hinduism...ad infinitum

So pele, a religion that teaches to put on sneakers, and drink the koolaide is identicle to one that says, treat other better than yourself, pay your taxes, don't lie or steal? These are the same in your eyes? The Jewish faith which has thousands of years of tradition and community is no diffferent than David Koresh teaching that he gets to sleep with any girl ages 10 and up?When you lump all religions as one, you are showing that you are closed minded.The main point of this thread was political, but the highjack is no different than always. Let's not talk about anything unless it is bashing the Christian faith, after all it is CRAZY?At least as long as you all get to define what Christianity is and then only look at examples that fit your narrow world view.I bet if you had to pick a nation to live in and the only criteria you were given was it's predominate religion you would have a different scale of judging religions.