Mormons

[Balloon guy 158]

hu?i meant it should be obvious that every non-christian belief in the world denys the diety of christ. that can't be any kind of objective qualification for cult status. you might as well just say anyone who believes different than i do is a member of a cult.

The context was a little clearer than that, you want to make it difficult have fun. And I would not say hinduism is a cult, just a false religion. which is pretty much the same thing, without th edgy movies about people leaving them.

[El Guapo 8]

Oh dear. This is a fantastic example of a jackass-ish bigotry at its finest. There are so many things that are wrong about this post...I can't even start. It makes me mad just thinking about the fact that people like you exist...just smart enough to properly articulate arguments as tragically stupid as this one.

Earlier you admitted to knowing nothing about the mormon religion, now you are going to attack me when I have people who have been ostercised and almost lost their children while trying to leave the church? Some times you sound smart speedz, but this is not one of those times.EDIT: I reread my post to see if I said anything insane, and I just stated facts that I have witnessed or had first hand accounts explained to me. I grew up in an area that was largely populated by mormons and even one of the housing developments was called Mormon Island, I think I have a little more knowledge on this subject than you.

[crowTrobot 2]

And I would not say hinduism is a cult, just a false religion. which is pretty much the same thing

so you do think anyone who believes differently than you is a member of a cult. thanks for clearing that up.

[gobears 0]

Earlier you admitted to knowing nothing about the mormon religion, now you are going to attack me when I have people who have been ostercised and almost lost their children while trying to leave the church? Some times you sound smart speedz, but this is not one of those times.EDIT: I reread my post to see if I said anything insane, and I just stated facts that I have witnessed or had first hand accounts explained to me. I grew up in an area that was largely populated by mormons and even one of the housing developments was called Mormon Island, I think I have a little more knowledge on this subject than you.

Like every religion, people span the gamut within a religion. My brother is an ex-Mormon but when he left the church, there was no ostracization and he remains good friends with many of his friends who remain Mormons. He was pretty serious about it too as he went on the two year mission but again, not all mormons do. Also, they have some different beliefs but I don't recall any of his Mormon friends believing/doing anything that seemed crazy. I went to some of their services as his guest and at least from my perspective, it seemed just like a regular Christian service.Within the Christian faith, we have the pentecostals who speak in tongues and worship in a different way than other Christians. I'm a democrat so I won't be voting in the Republican primary but just from what I've read, I would rather vote for Romney then Huckabee . I actually think that Romney might be the best choice of the Republicans.

[crowTrobot 2]

I actually think that Romney might be the best choice of the Republicans.

other than paul who has no chance, i thought so too... right up until romney implied anyone with a secular agenda was a second class citizen in his last speech while shamelessly trying to garner the christian vote by lumping himself with christians in an "us vs. the secularists" conflict.jeez just bring on hillary and get it over with gore in 2012 !!!neil peart in 2112 !!!

[Balloon guy 158]

other than paul who has no chance, i thought so too... right up until romney implied anyone with a secular agenda was a second class citizen in his last speech while shamelessly trying to garner the christian vote by lumping himself with christians in an "us vs. the secularists" conflict.jeez just bring on hillary and get it over with gore in 2012 !!!neil peart in 2112 !!!

I found something we can agree on. Rush was my favorite band growing up, I saw the 2112 tour live, although I was too stoned to remember anything other than Neil Peart's drum solo. I even had the 8 track of 2112.

[Balloon guy 158]

post counts are better when you double post

[El Guapo 8]

Like every religion, people span the gamut within a religion. My brother is an ex-Mormon but when he left the church, there was no ostracization and he remains good friends with many of his friends who remain Mormons. He was pretty serious about it too as he went on the two year mission but again, not all mormons do. Also, they have some different beliefs but I don't recall any of his Mormon friends believing/doing anything that seemed crazy. I went to some of their services as his guest and at least from my perspective, it seemed just like a regular Christian service.Within the Christian faith, we have the pentecostals who speak in tongues and worship in a different way than other Christians. I'm a democrat so I won't be voting in the Republican primary but just from what I've read, I would rather vote for Romney then Huckabee . I actually think that Romney might be the best choice of the Republicans.

I completely agree with you, some of my best friends in high school and beyond were mormon, I spent at least one day a week playing hoops at the mormon church. We used to get kicked out for swearing all the time One of my friends got a permanent ban, it was pretty funny. But anyway, I was responding to the underlying beliefs of the Mormon religion, where they become gods of their own planets and and the reason that they are poligamists is to create a master race, and as BG said to take over the US. WHy do you think they baptize the dead and send missionaries all over the world, to recruit new followers, which is not unlike a lot of other religions.With the extreme belief system I do not think knowledgable people can vote from Mitt. But it does not mean that your average Mormon is a bad person, infact some of them are the most generous nicest people I have ever met.To Speedz, I would actually think you would agree more along my lines of thinking here, sometimes you really confuse me.

[jmkiser 0]

I found something we can agree on. Rush was my favorite band growing up, I saw the 2112 tour live, although I was too stoned to remember anything other than Neil Peart's drum solo. I even had the 8 track of 2112.

god, the 3 of us could rule the world. as long as the world's official religion is rushAll this machinery making modern musicCan still be open heartedNot so coldly chartedIt's really just a question of your honesty, yeahYour honestyOne likes to believe in the freedom of musicBut glittering prizes and endless compromisesShatter the illusion of integrityahhhhhhhhhhhh dreamyand my neil peart videos... right next to my mike portnoy videos...

[crowTrobot 2]

I completely agree with you, some of my best friends in high school and beyond were mormon, I spent at least one day a week playing hoops at the mormon church. We used to get kicked out for swearing all the time One of my friends got a permanent ban, it was pretty funny. But anyway, I was responding to the underlying beliefs of the Mormon religion, where they become gods of their own planets and and the reason that they are poligamists is to create a master race, and as BG said to take over the US. WHy do you think they baptize the dead and send missionaries all over the world, to recruit new followers, which is not unlike a lot of other religions.With the extreme belief system I do not think knowledgable people can vote from Mitt. But it does not mean that your average Mormon is a bad person, infact some of them are the most generous nicest people I have ever met.

your prejudice is showing again. fundamentalist christianity seems less abnormal to you because you are used to its tenets. but the rest of the non-christian world (which is most of it) isn't going to think there is any difference between huckabee and romney in terms of the craziness of their beliefs, or more importantly between the exclusionary elitist message central to their beliefs.

[El Guapo 8]

your prejudice is showing again. fundamentalist christianity seems less abnormal to you because you are used to its tenets. but the rest of the non-christian world (which is most of it) isn't going to think there is any difference between huckabee and romney in terms of the craziness of their beliefs, or more importantly between the exclusionary elitist message central to their beliefs.

I do not see how this has anything to do with christianity, I do not even go to church and as I said before I am pretty much agnostic.It has to do with the underlying fundamentals of the mormon religion and how they want to make a master race and take over the world. How is believing that is insane, prejudice? I do not have anything against any one mormon, I just think their belief system is really messed up. I do not even know who huckabee is or what he believes in.

[crowTrobot 2]

god, the 3 of us could rule the world. as long as the world's official religion is rush

just means we are all oldYou know how that rabbit feelsGoing under your speeding wheelsBright images flashing byLike windshields towards a flyFrozen in the fatal climbBut the wheels of time Just pass you by

[crowTrobot 2]

It has to do with the underlying fundamentals of the mormon religion and how they want to make a master race and take over the world. How is believing that is insane, prejudice? I do not have anything against any one mormon, I just think their belief system is really messed up. I do not even know who huckabee is or what he believes in.

it's not prejudice if you also think christianity is insane. but since you seem to be endorsing chrstian candidates over romney because of his mormonism i assume you don't.huckabee believes evolution is false & creationism has a place in science courses, that those who don't believe in jesus as their personal savior are going to hell, and that the creator of the universe cares about america more than other countries because we are a christian nation.that might make more sense than mormonism to someone from a christian culture, but to a non-christian, particularly to a foreign non-christian, those beliefs are no less deranged, and no less dangerously divisive than anything mormons believe. if anything a fundamentalist christian president is going to be viewed as MORE dangerous by the rest of the world because more people take christianity seriously.

[El Guapo 8]

it's not prejudice if you also think christianity is insane. but since you seem to be endorsing chrstian candidates over romney because of his mormonism i assume you don't.huckabee believes evolution is false & creationism has a place in science courses, that those who don't believe in jesus as their personal savior are going to hell, and that the creator of the universe cares about america more than other countries because we are a christian nation.that might make more sense than mormonism to someone from a christian culture, but to a non-christian, particularly to a foreign non-christian, those beliefs are no less deranged, and no less dangerously divisive than anything mormons believe. if anything a fundamentalist christian president is going to be viewed as MORE dangerous by the rest of the world because more people take christianity seriously.

OK I understand where you are going with that. I was not comparing him to other candidates, I was taking him at face value and what I know of mormonism.But isn't that what we do when we vote, we are voting for people that have similar values as us, some people are going to focus harder on the religion, others are not. I think most religion is messed up and most churches are just out for money and power, not necissarily in that order. I have been to many different types of chruches and was baptised catholic, but never practiced. I had a distaste for them all because somewhere in every speech someone had their hand out.But that is not what this is about, and knowing Balloon Guys beliefs, which I do because we have talked about it on here, there is no way he can vote for Romney, and based on my beliefs and knowledge of the mormon church neither can I, I probably also could not vote for Huckabee.I'm a Fred Thompson man myself, with Rudy a close second.

[jmkiser 0]

I'm a Fred Thompson man myself, with Rudy a close second.

Fred Thompson... interesting... who is he? What is his big thing?Not an attack, I just really don't know.

[El Guapo 8]

Fred Thompson... interesting... who is he? What is his big thing?Not an attack, I just really don't know.

He is a republican, used to be a senator then went into acting, now he is right behing Rudy in the polls for Repub. nom. last I checked.

[Balloon guy 158]

god, the 3 of us could rule the world. as long as the world's official religion is rushAll this machinery making modern musicCan still be open heartedNot so coldly chartedIt's really just a question of your honesty, yeahYour honestyOne likes to believe in the freedom of musicBut glittering prizes and endless compromisesShatter the illusion of integrityahhhhhhhhhhhh dreamyand my neil peart videos... right next to my mike portnoy videos...

Hemisphere's still gives me goose bumps.I see battle rage on highThunderbolts across the skyI cannot move I cannot hideI feel a silent scream begin inside...Then all at once the chaos ceasedA stillness fell, a sudden peaceThe warriors felt my silent cryAnd stayed their struggle mystified...Take it Alex

[speedz99 145]

Earlier you admitted to knowing nothing about the mormon religion, now you are going to attack me when I have people who have been ostercised and almost lost their children while trying to leave the church? Some times you sound smart speedz, but this is not one of those times.

I don't know that much about the religion in terms of all the specifics, but I know the basics, just like most of us know the basics of every religion in this country. Why can't I attack your views just because you have a few sob stories about people trying to leave that church? Cry me a river, you're still a bigot. Just because you don't want it to be true doesn't make it go away. You really think there aren't stories about christians ostracizing (sp) people that leave their churches? But don't get hung up on that one issue, because it'll distract from the big picture.And, for the record, I looked back in this thread and can't find any posts where I claimed to know nothing about the mormon religion.

EDIT: I reread my post to see if I said anything insane, and I just stated facts that I have witnessed or had first hand accounts explained to me. I grew up in an area that was largely populated by mormons and even one of the housing developments was called Mormon Island, I think I have a little more knowledge on this subject than you.

No, you have a lot more knowledge than me...about one specific area of the country. I spent a few years living in an area with a decent population density of Mormons (the Phoenix area). I worked with Mormons and had friends in my apartment complex that were Mormon, and at one point or another probably had a conversation with all of them about their religion. They were all very quick to admit that in areas that are almost exclusively Mormon the people are pretty crazy...and they also made a point to mention that those nutjobs are probably no worse than super-orthodox hassidic jews, "god hates fags" christians, etc. And they're 100% correct about that. These friends of mine were fairly normal, if a little bit nice for my taste, but that's not a bad thing. They were religious like most people in this country are religious...they "believe" it, but in practice they only went to church once in a while (a few I knew went regularly). They had their church friends but had no problem making and keeping friends like me...even though their lack of drinking was annoying.And it's insulting to see someone like you write that someone like them shouldn't be the president of this country. Which takes me to your next post...

But anyway, I was responding to the underlying beliefs of the Mormon religion, where they become gods of their own planets and and the reason that they are poligamists is to create a master race, and as BG said to take over the US. WHy do you think they baptize the dead and send missionaries all over the world, to recruit new followers, which is not unlike a lot of other religions.With the extreme belief system I do not think knowledgable people can vote from Mitt. But it does not mean that your average Mormon is a bad person, infact some of them are the most generous nicest people I have ever met.To Speedz, I would actually think you would agree more along my lines of thinking here, sometimes you really confuse me.

Many Christians believe that:-the son of god lived 2000 years ago (oh, and he came back from the dead)-when any non-christian dies they will go to a place of eternal torture (personally I'd rather have my own planet)-it is their duty to convert others to christianity, here and abroad (you think mormons invented missionaries?)All of the above things are just as crazy to me and other non-christians as the mormon beliefs are to you (think about that for a minute please instead of just dismissing it like most christians around here). But would I refuse to vote for a Christian that I believe is fairly moderate in his beliefs, and who is a solid individual? Absolutely not. $0.02 on Stars to whoever can tell me why this is the case.Guapo, I don't think you're a terrible person, so at least do yourself a favor and read the wikipedia bio on Romney. See what the guy has done with his life, what he stands for, and how he views his religion (especially if and how it has ever affected his business or political decisions) before making a blanket statement like "I could never vote for a Morman".

[El Guapo 8]

I don't know that much about the religion in terms of all the specifics, but I know the basics, just like most of us know the basics of every religion in this country. Why can't I attack your views just because you have a few sob stories about people trying to leave that church? Cry me a river, you're still a bigot. Just because you don't want it to be true doesn't make it go away. You really think there aren't stories about christians ostracizing (sp) people that leave their churches? But don't get hung up on that one issue, because it'll distract from the big picture.And, for the record, I looked back in this thread and can't find any posts where I claimed to know nothing about the mormon religion. No, you have a lot more knowledge than me...about one specific area of the country. I spent a few years living in an area with a decent population density of Mormons (the Phoenix area). I worked with Mormons and had friends in my apartment complex that were Mormon, and at one point or another probably had a conversation with all of them about their religion. They were all very quick to admit that in areas that are almost exclusively Mormon the people are pretty crazy...and they also made a point to mention that those nutjobs are probably no worse than super-orthodox hassidic jews, "god hates fags" christians, etc. And they're 100% correct about that. These friends of mine were fairly normal, if a little bit nice for my taste, but that's not a bad thing. They were religious like most people in this country are religious...they "believe" it, but in practice they only went to church once in a while (a few I knew went regularly). They had their church friends but had no problem making and keeping friends like me...even though their lack of drinking was annoying.And it's insulting to see someone like you write that someone like them shouldn't be the president of this country. Which takes me to your next post...Many Christians believe that:-the son of god lived 2000 years ago (oh, and he came back from the dead)-when any non-christian dies they will go to a place of eternal torture (personally I'd rather have my own planet)-it is their duty to convert others to christianity, here and abroad (you think mormons invented missionaries?)All of the above things are just as crazy to me and other non-christians as the mormon beliefs are to you (think about that for a minute please instead of just dismissing it like most christians around here). But would I refuse to vote for a Christian that I believe is fairly moderate in his beliefs, and who is a solid individual? Absolutely not. $0.02 on Stars to whoever can tell me why this is the case.Guapo, I don't think you're a terrible person, so at least do yourself a favor and read the wikipedia bio on Romney. See what the guy has done with his life, what he stands for, and how he views his religion (especially if and how it has ever affected his business or political decisions) before making a blanket statement like "I could never vote for a Morman".

Speedz, My response was in regards to BG's belief system not mine. Personally I could not vote for anyone who has extremist religious tendencies. And You and I said the same thing to a certain extent. I do not know what it is about my posts that you read some deep seeded bigotry in some times and I have to further explain myself? I never said that Romney is not a great guy, I really know nothing about the guy. But I do know a great deal about the mormon religion and what I have seen in my minds in downright unethical, and I guess you could say the same thing about a lot of other religions, but I was not making a coparison to those religions, I was talking about this specific case.The subtext of the mormon religion is on par with what Nazi germany thought about the Jews, now obviously they are not going around committing genocide, thet are taking a mor emodern approach, but non the less they are trying to take over the US and impose their belief system, one that I do not believe in and neither does BG, so myself and he cannot vote for Romney because of what little I know of him he is deep into the church and has not denied that his Mormon beliefs would influence his decision making.You call me a bigot because I do not think the mormon religion is correct? That make no sense to me. I know you are Jewish, because you have said so many times. FOr you to be Jewish and not believe in Christiantiy or Muslims or Buhdism does that make you a bigot? Your logic is skewed here, I already said that many many of my friends are and were Mormon, it does not mean that I do not like them, I just think their religion is hokey, and a bunch of BS. Many people could say the same of my agnostic views. I think my buddy Eric is an idiot for wanting Socialized Medicine and I think most liberals are crazy, does not make me a bigot, it makes me have a certain belief system that is different from other people, and that is what we vote on in this country.

[speedz99 145]

Speedz, My response was in regards to BG's belief system not mine. Personally I could not vote for anyone who has extremist religious tendencies. And You and I said the same thing to a certain extent. I do not know what it is about my posts that you read some deep seeded bigotry in some times and I have to further explain myself? I never said that Romney is not a great guy, I really know nothing about the guy. But I do know a great deal about the mormon religion and what I have seen in my minds in downright unethical, and I guess you could say the same thing about a lot of other religions, but I was not making a coparison to those religions, I was talking about this specific case.The subtext of the mormon religion is on par with what Nazi germany thought about the Jews, now obviously they are not going around committing genocide, thet are taking a mor emodern approach, but non the less they are trying to take over the US and impose their belief system, one that I do not believe in and neither does BG, so myself and he cannot vote for Romney because of what little I know of him he is deep into the church and has not denied that his Mormon beliefs would influence his decision making.You call me a bigot because I do not think the mormon religion is correct? That make no sense to me. I know you are Jewish, because you have said so many times. FOr you to be Jewish and not believe in Christiantiy or Muslims or Buhdism does that make you a bigot? Your logic is skewed here, I already said that many many of my friends are and were Mormon, it does not mean that I do not like them, I just think their religion is hokey, and a bunch of BS. Many people could say the same of my agnostic views. I think my buddy Eric is an idiot for wanting Socialized Medicine and I think most liberals are crazy, does not make me a bigot, it makes me have a certain belief system that is different from other people, and that is what we vote on in this country.

This is so frustrating (probably for you too).Look, the fact that you don't think the mormon religion is correct has NOTHING to do with me saying you're a bigot. It's the fact that you take your belief that the mormon religion is incorrect (and for the hardcore ones, crazy) and let it bring you to conclusions like "no knowledgable person should vote for a Mormon, ever". I'm saying that, by this logic, nobody should ever vote for anyone of another religion. Like I said, I think that a lot of Christian beliefs are insane, and I can't believe that any logical human being would ever buy into it. BUT, I understand that for something as important as voting for the president, it's critical to lay aside pre-judgements like that and look at the man himself (or silly little woman that's trying to run). Read Romney's wiki bio. He's not a religious nut. He has never been accused of playing favorites with other mormons in any way. He isn't into polygamy. He doesn't beat his wife. And as for not wanting to vote for a mormon because a few mormon nutjobs say that it's their destiny to take over the country, give me a break. Every nutjob thinks it's his destiny to control the world, hardcore mormon's don't have a monopoly on that. And, as I said before, it's not like mormons are the only ones that try to spread their faith.You can have an opinion on a religion as a whole. It becomes bigotry when your steriotype makes you pre-judge everyone of that faith, regardless of who they are and what they've done.How do you not see the distinction here? What is it that I'm not explaining correctly?

[Jadaki 0]

My best friend in high school dated a Mormon once... true story.She was pretty good looking, a bit out of his league I thought. Then one day it was raining and we were driving down the interstate. We went under a series of overpasses and she looked confused... when I asked her what was wrong she asked if I thought it was weird that it stopped raining for one second and then started again, then would stop and restart again. I looked at my friend and nodded, it made perfect sense.

[pele_br 0]

Speedz, My response was in regards to BG's belief system not mine. Personally I could not vote for anyone who has extremist religious tendencies. And You and I said the same thing to a certain extent. I do not know what it is about my posts that you read some deep seeded bigotry in some times and I have to further explain myself? I never said that Romney is not a great guy, I really know nothing about the guy. But I do know a great deal about the mormon religion and what I have seen in my minds in downright unethical, and I guess you could say the same thing about a lot of other religions, but I was not making a coparison to those religions, I was talking about this specific case.The subtext of the mormon religion is on par with what Nazi germany thought about the Jews, now obviously they are not going around committing genocide, thet are taking a mor emodern approach, but non the less they are trying to take over the US and impose their belief system, one that I do not believe in and neither does BG, so myself and he cannot vote for Romney because of what little I know of him he is deep into the church and has not denied that his Mormon beliefs would influence his decision making.You call me a bigot because I do not think the mormon religion is correct? That make no sense to me. I know you are Jewish, because you have said so many times. FOr you to be Jewish and not believe in Christiantiy or Muslims or Buhdism does that make you a bigot? Your logic is skewed here, I already said that many many of my friends are and were Mormon, it does not mean that I do not like them, I just think their religion is hokey, and a bunch of BS. Many people could say the same of my agnostic views. I think my buddy Eric is an idiot for wanting Socialized Medicine and I think most liberals are crazy, does not make me a bigot, it makes me have a certain belief system that is different from other people, and that is what we vote on in this country.

I'd just like to add my opinion regarding your comment about Speedz being Jewish.First of all, I don't know whether he is a practicing Jew, or not. But there is a "problem" with Judaism for the fact that it is not only a religion but is also considered a "race". I think this is a huge part of the problem regarding antisemitism throughout the world. The lack of a distinct separation between these two definitions of Judaism.I am an atheist and Jewish. I can't help it. 99% of the world considers me a Jew, and yet, I do not believe in the Torah, any more than I believe in Ra, or Zeus, or Thor or whatever other human-created myth. But I'll be a Jew till I die.I'm proud of my "jewishness" too. But it has to do with the culture, rather than the religious belief itself. I like that Jews are generally funny and witty people, I like that they help each other, and secular jews are generally really good people, at least from my personal experience. On the other hand, Orthodox jews are in my opinion the worst people on the planet, right there beside Jihadists and other forms of religious extremism. But I'm veering off and rambling so I'll stop here.In summary, I just don't agree that someone being Jewish who doesn't believe Christianity, Islam and Buddhism is automatically a bigot. For the reasons stated above.

[pele_br 0]

This is so frustrating (probably for you too).Look, the fact that you don't think the mormon religion is correct has NOTHING to do with me saying you're a bigot. It's the fact that you take your belief that the mormon religion is incorrect (and for the hardcore ones, crazy) and let it bring you to conclusions like "no knowledgable person should vote for a Mormon, ever". I'm saying that, by this logic, nobody should ever vote for anyone of another religion. Like I said, I think that a lot of Christian beliefs are insane, and I can't believe that any logical human being would ever buy into it. BUT, I understand that for something as important as voting for the president, it's critical to lay aside pre-judgements like that and look at the man himself (or silly little woman that's trying to run). Read Romney's wiki bio. He's not a religious nut. He has never been accused of playing favorites with other mormons in any way. He isn't into polygamy. He doesn't beat his wife. And as for not wanting to vote for a mormon because a few mormon nutjobs say that it's their destiny to take over the country, give me a break. Every nutjob thinks it's his destiny to control the world, hardcore mormon's don't have a monopoly on that. And, as I said before, it's not like mormons are the only ones that try to spread their faith.You can have an opinion on a religion as a whole. It becomes bigotry when your steriotype makes you pre-judge everyone of that faith, regardless of who they are and what they've done.How do you not see the distinction here? What is it that I'm not explaining correctly?

I forgot to attempt an answer for the 0.02 cents on Stars.

But would I refuse to vote for a Christian that I believe is fairly moderate in his beliefs, and who is a solid individual? Absolutely not. $0.02 on Stars to whoever can tell me why this is the case.

If you refused to vote for a Christian even though he is fairly moderate in his beliefs, you would be refusing to vote for ANY candidate in America for at least the next few decades. If lack of religious belief becomes one of your pre-requisites to vote for a candidate, well, let's just say you would be hard-pressed to find an electable person.0.02 cents?

[speedz99 145]

I'd just like to add my opinion regarding your comment about Speedz being Jewish.First of all, I don't know whether he is a practicing Jew, or not. But there is a "problem" with Judaism for the fact that it is not only a religion but is also considered a "race". I think this is a huge part of the problem regarding antisemitism throughout the world. The lack of a distinct separation between these two definitions of Judaism.I am an atheist and Jewish. I can't help it. 99% of the world considers me a Jew, and yet, I do not believe in the Torah, any more than I believe in Ra, or Zeus, or Thor or whatever other human-created myth. But I'll be a Jew till I die.I'm proud of my "jewishness" too. But it has to do with the culture, rather than the religious belief itself. I like that Jews are generally funny and witty people, I like that they help each other, and secular jews are generally really good people, at least from my personal experience. On the other hand, Orthodox jews are in my opinion the worst people on the planet, right there beside Jihadists and other forms of religious extremism. But I'm veering off and rambling so I'll stop here.In summary, I just don't agree that someone being Jewish who doesn't believe Christianity, Islam and Buddhism is automatically a bigot. For the reasons stated above.

That pretty much sums up my feelings about being jewish as well. Nice work.

I forgot to attempt an answer for the 0.02 cents on Stars.If you refused to vote for a Christian even though he is fairly moderate in his beliefs, you would be refusing to vote for ANY candidate in America for at least the next few decades. If lack of religious belief becomes one of your pre-requisites to vote for a candidate, well, let's just say you would be hard-pressed to find an electable person.0.02 cents?

Sorry, not the answer I was looking for.

[pele_br 0]

That pretty much sums up my feelings about being jewish as well. Nice work.

High-five!I'll get the 2 cents... I'll have a think driving home from work...