I've Reached 20 Bi For My Lvl, Do I Move Up?

[gfdsa146 0]

OK so i've been playing a lot of .01/.02 6max NLHE and I'm at $100 now (20 max $5 BIs). So do you guys think i should move up to .02/.05 and buy in for $5 there? Or shoudl I wait till I reach $200 so i can max buy-in for $10 instead?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I don't view moving up as an "either/or" decision. I am a strong advocate of testing the waters at the higher stakes when you have a comfortable Bank Roll at your current level. It isn't a switch that you throw. You may lose a buy-in or two and decide to pull back and grid back up at the lower level, but you'll have had the experience at the higher stakes and eventually you'll stick there. You clearly want to move doing things "the right way" in terms of BR Management and I think that is cool.

[gfdsa146 0]

The main issue with sticking at .01/.02 is just that a "big" pot is still only like $1.50. I'm used to playing in games where a big pot = double up. Its very rare that you can get someone to stack off the full 250 BB. Its not impossible, but the only times its happened to me is when some maniac sits down at the table and shoves every single hand for $5. Like last night. I was grinding as usual, just cruisin. I was working this one guy really good, practically running him over. Everything was going fine. Then three people sit down and all of a sudden start jamming $5 each hand. Then I started to watch the chat from one of them and it seemed that all the lingo he was using was very FCPish. And his name looked familiar too. And then this mystery character typed in "fcp?" O boy. Fricken whatisgreatis and FargopokerND and another FCPer decided to sit down at my table and flip. It was all very fun. I dusted off 2 BI flipping with them. I gotta quit that. damn.

[Zach6668 513]

Move up when you are comfortable.Move down if you run poorly or feel like you're uncomfortable at the new level.It's a dynamic thing. Just because you have a roll for whatever level, you don't need to play just that level.

[Orion071 0]

I'm having a ton of trouble moving from $100 NL to $200 NL. I have over 20 BI's for $200 NL, but I just can't get used to the higher stakes. At $100 NL I never had any problems putting in my whole stack if the play warrented, but last night I was trying out $200 NL and I had trouble making a $15 continuation bet. I kept thinking "$15 OMG that's a lot of money on a bluff bet." No it isn't, $15 is nothing, but I can't get over the fact mentally that I could protentially be losing $200 in a hand.How do you get "more comfortable" at a level? I'd keep playing, but I think I'm playing scared and playing horribly.

[Zach6668 513]

It's easier to be more comfortable at a level, if you're overrolled for it.So, for your problem, keep playing $100 until you have like 40 buyins or something, then try out $200 again.For example, I'm pretty lazy sometimes getting in hands. If I get up early, I tend to play fewer hands than I should, simply because I don't want to hit that downswing, etc. It's not a smart long term thing, but just a mental thing. I always said, if I had an $infinity bankroll, I'd play all day, every day, because I wouldn't have to worry about wins and losses, and inevitably, assuming my skill level stays the same compared to the competition, I'll win a lot more money.I'm playing LHE HU with 1000 BBs right now, but I freak out over a 100 BB downswing. If I had 2000 BBs, or whatever, I'd feel it a lot less.

[AcesOnFire 0]

It's easier to be more comfortable at a level, if you're overrolled for it.So, for your problem, keep playing $100 until you have like 40 buyins or something, then try out $200 again.For example, I'm pretty lazy sometimes getting in hands. If I get up early, I tend to play fewer hands than I should, simply because I don't want to hit that downswing, etc. It's not a smart long term thing, but just a mental thing. I always said, if I had an $infinity bankroll, I'd play all day, every day, because I wouldn't have to worry about wins and losses, and inevitably, assuming my skill level stays the same compared to the competition, I'll win a lot more money.I'm playing LHE HU with 1000 BBs right now, but I freak out over a 100 BB downswing. If I had 2000 BBs, or whatever, I'd feel it a lot less.

AcesOnFire approves of this message.

[NoBBiR 0]

Move up when you are comfortable.Move down if you run poorly or feel like you're uncomfortable at the new level.It's a dynamic thing. Just because you have a roll for whatever level, you don't need to play just that level.

What drives me nuts is that I play 1/2 and have dabbled in 2/5 live, so playing online at .05/.1 and .1/.25 drives me bonkers because I feel like I should be playing higher. But truthfully, those levels coincide online. .05/.1 and .1/.25 are basically all the donks at the Casinos playing 1/2. So you can just move up as you get comfortable, not based on anything else. Ex., feeling like you deserve to play higher, hating the small stakes, etc. Personally I wouldn't move up until I had 20 max buy-ins for the level I was going to move up to online. So $200 for .02/.05 since its deep at $10 max, and before moving to .05/.10 I'd probably want to have $250 since it's essentially the same thing just not deep.Then after that I'd want $500 for 25, $1000 for 50, 2000 for $100, and so on. Unless you are highly confident in your skill, I wouldn't break those rules. Nevermind, don't break them at all.

AcesOnFire approves of this message.

I approve of your sig.

[Zach6668 513]

Even 20 buyins for levels above $100 NL is getting pretty lax. Once you get up to higher limits, that comfort factor really pushes you to have more than what you have always read as "standard".

[antistuff 0]

why do you care about going broke that low? if you do you just reload and keep playing. if you're a winner eventually you'll hit that run where you end up with enough to play higher comfortably, and if you're a loser those of us who play higher would appreciate your action . even if you destroy those games it'll be like 20,000 hands until you have enough to play even just $25 following "proper" bankroll management. screw that.

[mln_falcon 0]

why do you care about going broke that low? if you do you just reload and keep playing. if you're a winner eventually you'll hit that run where you end up with enough to play higher comfortably, and if you're a loser those of us who play higher would appreciate your action . even if you destroy those games it'll be like 20,000 hands until you have enough to play even just $25 following "proper" bankroll management. screw that.

I did it. $30 in April and I'm playing nl100 now. The skills you learn moving up through all the levels are great. You learn to manage your roll, adjust to different players, you have to be honest with yourself about your skills and you learn how to handle swongs. I also learnt to play for fun before playing for money which I feel is really important. What I mean, I was always trying to turn a profit, but now my average session is the same as my whole month of April. And no matter how good you think you are, putting in enough hands to build a roll starting at 1c/2c is going to improve you so much as a player.Therefore ignore antistuff.

[antistuff 0]

I did it. $30 in April and I'm playing nl100 now. The skills you learn moving up through all the levels are great. You learn to manage your roll, adjust to different players, you have to be honest with yourself about your skills and you learn how to handle swongs. I also learnt to play for fun before playing for money which I feel is really important. What I mean, I was always trying to turn a profit, but now my average session is the same as my whole month of April. And no matter how good you think you are, putting in enough hands to build a roll starting at 1c/2c is going to improve you so much as a player.Therefore ignore antistuff.

lets say that a "proper" bankroll for nl$25 is $500. I feel that this is a little conservative but whatever. it doesn't matter if you have this whole bankroll online, or if you reload when your online account dries out and keep $400 of it in your bank account. if you're a winning player you should end up ahead $500 if you keep reloading in increments of $100 before you end up down $500. why waste your time learning in smaller games that aren't that much different from bigger games that you could be playing in? the difference in skill between nl$10 to nl$25 and from nl$25 to nl$50 is negligible. for the record i started with $40 playing .5/.10 lhe and have worked up to where i am now with a $2000 roll and having withdrawn thousands of dollars. looking back i really should have been more aggressive about trying to play higher. i wasted a lot of time playing in small games when i could have been beating bigger ones.and no need to say inflammatory things like "ignore antistuff". ignoring advice from anybody is a pretty stupid thing to do, even if you disagree or choose not to follow it you can learn a lot from thinking about the things that other people say.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I'm having a ton of trouble moving from $100 NL to $200 NL. I have over 20 BI's for $200 NL, but I just can't get used to the higher stakes. At $100 NL I never had any problems putting in my whole stack if the play warrented, but last night I was trying out $200 NL and I had trouble making a $15 continuation bet. I kept thinking "$15 OMG that's a lot of money on a bluff bet." No it isn't, $15 is nothing, but I can't get over the fact mentally that I could protentially be losing $200 in a hand.How do you get "more comfortable" at a level? I'd keep playing, but I think I'm playing scared and playing horribly.

I've said it often enough that I may get a tattoo: "Scared Poker is Losing Poker"The table is the worst place to worry about money. If you're thinking about your roll while at the table, then you're thiking about the wrong thing - you're under rolled.

[mln_falcon 0]

lets say that a "proper" bankroll for nl$25 is $500. I feel that this is a little conservative but whatever. it doesn't matter if you have this whole bankroll online, or if you reload when your online account dries out and keep $400 of it in your bank account. if you're a winning player you should end up ahead $500 if you keep reloading in increments of $100 before you end up down $500. why waste your time learning in smaller games that aren't that much different from bigger games that you could be playing in? the difference in skill between nl$10 to nl$25 and from nl$25 to nl$50 is negligible. for the record i started with $40 playing .5/.10 lhe and have worked up to where i am now with a $2000 roll and having withdrawn thousands of dollars. looking back i really should have been more aggressive about trying to play higher. i wasted a lot of time playing in small games when i could have been beating bigger ones.and no need to say inflammatory things like "ignore antistuff". ignoring advice from anybody is a pretty stupid thing to do, even if you disagree or choose not to follow it you can learn a lot from thinking about the things that other people say.

Are you sure you're not beating the bigger games now because of the time you wasted at the lower limits. Also even if you have the money to redeposit, it doesn't mean that's the best way to play. My biggest motivation to improve and to avoid my leaks came from never wanting to deposit again. Sorry for saying he should ignore you, I'm just a huge BR and also feel that moving up the limits using correct BR management teaches you soo much valuable stuff.Edit: I just noticed you said the play between the levels is not that different. I have to disagree, the bad players are very similar, but there are more regulars the higher you go, and they get better the higher you go.

[antistuff 0]

Are you sure you're not beating the bigger games now because of the time you wasted at the lower limits. Also even if you have the money to redeposit, it doesn't mean that's the best way to play. My biggest motivation to improve and to avoid my leaks came from never wanting to deposit again. Sorry for saying he should ignore you, I'm just a huge BR and also feel that moving up the limits using correct BR management teaches you soo much valuable stuff.Edit: I just noticed you said the play between the levels is not that different. I have to disagree, the bad players are very similar, but there are more regulars the higher you go, and they get better the higher you go.

i didn't know enough back then to answer your question, and im not sure that i remember enough to answer it now. i will guess though that i could have at least beaten .25/.50 from the same moment when things clicked and i was able to beat .05/.10. i don't remember sitting down in a game where i got up because it sucked until 1/2 for whatever that says about the level of play as you move up in the micros. (this is all lhe). people harp on about bankroll. my guess is because its the easiest problem that most people have to fix. if a new player asked me what i thought the most important thing was i would answer that if you are able to stay in action at the levels you are playing at ( such as being able to reload) the most important thing is game selection. you're right about the regulars as you move up. just have the good common sense not to play in marginal situations with people who are equal to or better than you. i doubt that there is somebody who is able to win decently at nl$10 (i'll say 6ptbb/100 or more) who wouldn't be a winner at nl$25. was there a way to make a bet on it i would and not just for pennies either.

[mln_falcon 0]

i doubt that there is somebody who is able to win decently at nl$10 (i'll say 6ptbb/100 or more) who wouldn't be a winner at nl$25. was there a way to make a bet on it i would and not just for pennies either.

This is true. But if they're not ready for the amount of money on the table and the slightly better competition, they could be a loser over their first few thousand hands, which are the most important when taking shots. My own guideline, and this is NL specific as I don't think there is a parallel in LHE, is when I'm comfortable playing 2 and 3 buyins deep, I'll be comfortable enough playing the next level up. Thats more related to your emotional bankroll rather than actual br managment.

[David_Nicoson 1]

You probably have sufficient bankroll to play the 0.02/0.05. You can always move back down. I think it's important to practice losing well. Apart from the technical skills, you need to be able to lose money without losing your mind. I think it's best to do that step by step.

[jmkiser 0]

Antistuff is right to a degree.The real point is that EVERYONE has to see where they are at.Personally, I haven't been that fortunate with money (and I'm young) so I get to start out small. Only difference is that I've done this poker thing for quite a few years and I'm much more experienced then those around me at the limits I'm playing. To get started on the real bankroll and doing this the right way, though, is a different story.I've finally settled down and picked LHE as my game. Online, I feel comfortable 2 tabling with a 200BB bankroll. Right now, I've turned $30 into $40 on PS and I'm still moving up. I went from .05-.10 to .10-.20 pretty fast and still going. Live, I play 2-4 and I am comfortable with my 150BB bankroll (it's my only choice, but it still does not affect my game play at all)... If I was playing with 100BB or less, I would be extremely worried and playing with scared money. If I had 400BB, well.. I wouldn't because I would be at the next limit by then.It's different for everyone in every situation. The two MOST important things are1. You can't play so short that you're playing with scared money... you'll become overly-passive and lose everything.2. If you're getting bored because you're bankroll is getting so large compared to the limit you're playing, take a shot at the next limit. Moving up is exciting and will get you back into the swing of things. I am personally boggled at people with $200 in their online accounts and are still playing .10-.20, but hey, do what you feel is going to maximize you're playing ability and not sway you in either direction

[gfdsa146 0]

Very solid advice from everyone. I think I'm going to stay at .01/.02 and jump into .02/.05 only if i see a rediculously good game.Even though it may seem rediculous to some to have a hundred or 2 and still be playing .01/.02, I feel that its the right way to go. That same "i've got plenty of money compared to the game that i'm currently playing" mentality is the same mentality i want to carry in with me as i move up the limits. This way, hopefully, i'll be sitting at a $5/$10 table, and i will still have that "i've got plenty of money compared ot the game i'm currently playing" mentality, therefore allowing me to play my best. And I dont want to redeposit again, its just stupid. Its just something I'm against. Every time that i'm required to deposit, I feel like i've failed in someway. And it makes me feel like that degenerate who keeps on going busto online, then reaching back into his pocket to go get some more money that he's going to lose again.

[AimHigher 0]

Very solid advice from everyone. I think I'm going to stay at .01/.02 and jump into .02/.05 only if i see a rediculously good game.Even though it may seem rediculous to some to have a hundred or 2 and still be playing .01/.02, I feel that its the right way to go. That same "i've got plenty of money compared to the game that i'm currently playing" mentality is the same mentality i want to carry in with me as i move up the limits. This way, hopefully, i'll be sitting at a $5/$10 table, and i will still have that "i've got plenty of money compared ot the game i'm currently playing" mentality, therefore allowing me to play my best. And I dont want to redeposit again, its just stupid. Its just something I'm against. Every time that i'm required to deposit, I feel like i've failed in someway. And it makes me feel like that degenerate who keeps on going busto online, then reaching back into his pocket to go get some more money that he's going to lose again.

I think you should move up man. You need to understand that almost every hobby costs money.Quick example: Let's say you take up golf (a la Daniel Negreanu), you have to buy clubs, a membership, golf balls (which you will constantly have to buy), tees, golf gloves, clothes, etc etc. It all costs money. EVERY hobby costs money.To say you are a degenerate because you are reloading your account is ridiculous. You are paying for the enjoyment of the game and the education you receive from playing in tougher games. The enjoyment you receive from the game should be greater than its monetary value. Of course it is necessary not to go overboard and that is why bankroll management exists. Just move up, get your feet wet and play some tougher competition. It will expose leaks in your game and make you a better player. Isn't that what we're all striving for?

[1969_F85 0]

Ok, maybe I am just a donk, but I think BR is highly over-rated. I mean, look at Jamie Gold, he has the bankroll to play at the level with the big boys, but not the skill level. Just because Ms. Gold won the ME and has the BR to play at that level doesn't mean that he should be playing at that level. The game I play in is 1/2 $200 max buy-in and it is usually with the same players every week. There are some really good players there and I know that a few of them have me dominated in terms of skill level and playing time, but that isn't why I am playing. I am playing for the enjoyment and the learning experience. I usually only have one buyin when I sit down, but the main thing is that I don't care about the money, well not much anyway. I play for the sport of it and if I lose then I lose. The training I have got from this game is worth more than anything at the lower limits could ever give me.

[Zach6668 513]

You're right, just because you have the BR to play a certain level doesn't mean you can play it.But if you can beat a certain level, you'd better have a proper bankroll for it, to be able to sustain the swings, and avoid having to get lucky to keep yourself from going broke.

[GabeTheKid 0]

20BI is a good rule for micro stakes where your utility towards the money just isn't significant. I mean, 100 bucks is easily replaceable and thus you shouldn't be too strict with your BR requirements if lets say, you had 10,000. I think you should move up. But if you had a 10,000 BR, I'd suggest playing 200NL (50X max BI). It's still very feasible for you to go broke with the 20BI rule but if you lose 20 bucks or so, just move down a level and regain your compsoure..gl,Gabe

[Cappy37 0]

Like last night. I was grinding as usual, just cruisin. I was working this one guy really good, practically running him over. Everything was going fine. Then three people sit down and all of a sudden start jamming $5 each hand. Then I started to watch the chat from one of them and it seemed that all the lingo he was using was very FCPish. And his name looked familiar too. And then this mystery character typed in "fcp?" O boy. Fricken whatisgreatis and FargopokerND and another FCPer decided to sit down at my table and flip. It was all very fun. I dusted off 2 BI flipping with them. I gotta quit that. damn.

lol that's nothing. I was in the seat BETWEEN TB17 and Hubdub during the "Ravens got screwed on MNF so lets nutbar .01/.02 NLHE" event. I technically lost like 15 bucks playing .01/.02 (lol!), everyone else lost their temper, and the rest is (flamewar) history.

why do you care about going broke that low? if you do you just reload and keep playing. if you're a winner eventually you'll hit that run where you end up with enough to play higher comfortably, and if you're a loser those of us who play higher would appreciate your action . even if you destroy those games it'll be like 20,000 hands until you have enough to play even just $25 following "proper" bankroll management. screw that.

It's never to early to start practicing good habits. It's always important to "care" about money, and it's certain death to completely understimate the skill level of even players at .02/.05. Microlimits aren't filled with businessmen in ties tossing $50 online to find out about the "poker fad". They are chock full of people like us: good, solid players, playing within their roll.I've seen some players at $.50/$1 Horse (as low as Horse cash games go, for some weird reason) who I stay the hell away from in most marginal situations purely out of respect. And my god, am I right far more often than I'm wrong. Of course, there are always fish, but not nearly as abundant as at least "marginal" players.

[Cappy37 0]

I've said it often enough that I may get a tattoo: "Scared Poker is Losing Poker"The table is the worst place to worry about money. If you're thinking about your roll while at the table, then you're thiking about the wrong thing - you're under rolled.

Yikes. I'm *always* thinking about money, be it in terms of win rates (bb/hr), swings, or where my goals for the day lie, if I'm back to even for the week, how much I'm ahead for the week, etc, etc. Of course, I'm mega ADD, so my mind racing is a constant thing. I'm not sure "scared" is the be-all end-all.. I think it's more along the lines of "If it doesn't sting to lose, you are playing to low. If it is devastating to lose, you are playing to high. If it stings a bit, you are in the right ballpark."Does that sound accurate? I'd hate to think of myself as scared money, although going from $1-$3 buy-in tourneys to plunking 50 dollars down at a $.50/$1 HORSE cash game to sit in may be a bit extreme in terms of "elevating the risk factor". But I mean, the hell kind of cash game are you supposed to play w/ $500 behind you? After dropping a quick $120, I made it all back in the last week and a half, and learned a valuable lesson about "table selection". BTW- Slightly off-topic, but Xmas shopping with FPPs is a true sign of degeneracy, no?