AimHigher 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)UTG ($14.85)MP ($19.60)Hero ($12.90)Button ($1.80)SB ($11.35)BB ($6.60)Preflop: Hero is CO with K, T. 1 fold, MP raises to $0.4, Hero calls $0.40, 1 fold, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold.Flop: ($1.30) Q, 9, 2(3 players)SB checks, MP bets $1.2, Hero calls $1.20, SB raises to $2.4, MP calls $1.20, Hero calls $1.20.Turn: ($8.50) 5(3 players)SB bets $2.5, MP raises to $16.8Hero?SB is very loose. He is limping into most pots or even calling large raises with marginal holdings. This is the first time I have seen him check raise. MP is reasonable. Link to post Share on other sites
natedawg2 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 MP 1010+ i think AQ, SB a weak Qx, underbet could be a feeler or a FD...so he has some of your outs, so your not getting the proper odds, SB folds i fold, SB calls..i think for a while, probly still fold Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I don't hate your first flop call, but I think you should shove when it comes back to you on the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 You're equity sucks on the turn, and you're up against multiple highly interested parties. Also, I don't really think you're getting the correct odds unless you're positive that the SB is calling the all-in as well.Fold. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 I don't hate your first flop call, but I think you should shove when it comes back to you on the flop.Why do you recommend a shove as opposed to a call here? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Cuz you got a monster! Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Why do you recommend a shove as opposed to a call here?BC you have an additional 3 outs with the straight draw. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 You're equity sucks on the turn, and you're up against multiple highly interested parties. Also, I don't really think you're getting the correct odds unless you're positive that the SB is calling the all-in as well.Fold.Well, I had $10 behind me on the turn.The SB had half his chips in there already so he was definitely coming along. How do we factor in that there will be about $8 or so in a side pot to this call? Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Well, I had $10 behind me on the turn.The SB had half his chips in there already so he was definitely coming along. How do we factor in that there will be about $8 or so in a side pot to this call?The other thing you have to consider is that MP shoved on what was essentially a brick. You probably do not have as many outs as you think. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Cuz you got a monster!That's it, because I have 13 outs? Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 That's it, because I have 13 outs?You have 12 outs, don't recount the J of hearts.I would have made the second bet personally, but shoving here is pretty much your best option. Shoving without the inside draw is also acceptable.Oh, and I wouldn't count on anybody folding... the call-threebet line on the flop isn't exactly the most normal looking thing in the world. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 The other thing you have to consider is that MP shoved on what was essentially a brick. You probably do not have as many outs as you think.Yeah, against a set I am missing two outs right? it's probably safe to say my K and T are probably no good at this point. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 You have 12 outs, don't recount the J of hearts.I would have made the second bet personally, but shoving here is pretty much your best option. Shoving without the inside draw is also acceptable.Oh, and I wouldn't count on anybody folding... the call-threebet line on the flop isn't exactly the most normal looking thing in the world.Oops, 12. Counting outs 101 right there.So you're saying shoving flop is optimal because I most likely have at least two people coming along with me and am getting good odds. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Oops, 12. Counting outs 101 right there.So you're saying shoving flop is optimal because I most likely have at least two people coming along with me and am getting good odds.After you made that call, yes. You should have raised when it first got to you on the flop though. Monster draws play like sets or big overpairs pairs on the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Ricer98 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 As played on the turn you have to fold, your likely up against atleast two pair or a set from one of the players. If thats the case you have about 23% equity when the pot is about $21 and you have to call off $10. Even if the SB calls all in as well your still slightly -EV getting 2.7-1 as a 3-1 dog.Calling isn't terrible but I probably raise the flop the first time the action is to you. MP is easily continuation betting or betting a one pair hand which we are the favorite against. Wtih just calling MP's bet I'm really tempted to shove over the top of SB's min raise and MP's call. There is allready over $7 in the pot at that point and we are showing a ton a strength with this line. The only time its marginal is when we run into a set, then we are a little over a 2-1 dog and only getting 1.64-1 on our money. But, I'd say we either take it down or get it in with hands worse than a set enough to cover this slight -EV situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 If we assume we have no fold equity, which is probably untrue, but reasonable, we need 33% equity to toss the money in here. Not to mention, there's a bunch of dead money in the pot that further improve our odds.Give me ranges for each of them, and I can run our equity. Link to post Share on other sites
omahahilo 0 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 MP has the Q for sure. He's pushing the draws out. You're beat and have to draw. You don't have the odds. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I raise the 1.20 for two reasons: To create a balanced strategy. If the villain is going to pay off our sets, he has to have some doubt about what he should do if we raise on the flop. It's a gamble with a possible big upside (they fold) and very little downside (they call and we coin flip). Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Why do you recommend a shove as opposed to a call here?you are drawing to the near nuts and you are no worse than 50/50 against any hand, other than top set, which you are only slightly less than 50/50 against. There is a lot of dead money in the pot. If you shove here, and get called, the dead money in the pot makes it a profitable situation for you.You also have a decent amount of fold equity. The times you get called and win, combined with the times you shove and everyone folds, make shoving a very profitable play. This goes for most other situations where you flop a big combo draw as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Jdr999 0 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Why do you recommend a shove as opposed to a call here?Because you will see the turn, and the river. Got priced out of this pot by not improving on the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
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