Something Bad Is Gonna Happen To Ap

[RDog 0]

That seems kinda silly, but I can imagine what his motives would be.

Because for him, his reputation means more than anything and I'm sure he was a bit dismayed that he had spent days and weeks working on this stuff to help clean up the poker community and get peoples money back, and in return people questioned his motives. In the end, I am guessing the second item was more pressing in that he was worried the US Government would then consider him a paid consultant for the gambling industry.

[Zach6668 513]

silly to go or to not go?seems like ppl had a negative reaction to him taking money from AP.

Silly not to go.I assumed that it was due to the money coming from AP, though. I don't have any desire to read through 10+ page 2p2 threads.

[mase_gotsem 0]

Later in the thread he decides not to go. He is trying to work out other means of going and not be paid by AP as far as I know now.

i think he deserves the money if he goes i mean he did help uncover the truth so he can and definetly deserevs it all those ppl jumping on him for getting paid are pretty cluless and selfish i say !

[RDog 0]

I feel so torn arguing with you since my preference is that no one plays on AP again and they go out of business and that bad, bad things happen to the owners.In a perfect world, certainly, everyone would give up the money to take a stand here. But for all the making fun of Zach's strategy I do (i.e., winning is secondary to clearing bonuses), there is an element to truth to it. Zach makes his living because of all the AP bonuses. Despite my distaste for everything that has happened and my personal desire to see them punished for it, how can I tell him in good conscience to not make a living? I'm sure there are a lot of AP players that can actually afford to make the statement that comes with not playing there, but what about the guys that are grinding it out month-by-month and have developed a way of life that relies on all the perks that come with the bonuses?I mean, it's not like Zach is going to suddenly become a decent player just by switching sites.

I guess my point is this.......unless AP is hit in their bottom line here, this stuff could happen again and Zach won't have ANY option to play online. I understand short term he has a very tough decision but if every person thinks their issues are more important than the next and therefore keep playing there, what is going to stop other sites from doing this? Aside from Stars and FT, all the other sites are basically operations without much credibility IMO. If these other sites think they can cheat the players and just freeroll in that if they get caught, all will be forgiven within a few weeks, then what exactly have we created? I know its dramatic and probably overly simplistic but I am honestly worried about the future of being able to play online. The last year or so has been dramabomb after dramabomb, scandal after scandal. How are we supposed to continually fight that poker is such a game of skill when all that comes out in the media is how much cheating is going on? Instead of having the government use poker as an example, AP should be made an example by those of us that play poker.Edit: Okay, just occurred to me that Zach is Canadian so I should say that his fish pond will get smaller if US regulations get tighter. And who knows if it gets bad enough, other countries might follow.

[mase_gotsem 0]

pretty much agree rdog but you are fighting a battle that has been fought for decades poker and cheating will never be distant and as long as there is money involved ppl will always look out for them selves first and trey to find an edge any where they can :95 % of them at least:

[Zach6668 513]

I guess my point is this.......unless AP is hit in their bottom line here, this stuff could happen again and Zach won't have ANY option to play online. I understand short term he has a very tough decision but if every person thinks their issues are more important than the next and therefore keep playing there, what is going to stop other sites from doing this? Aside from Stars and FT, all the other sites are basically operations without much credibility IMO. If these other sites think they can cheat the players and just freeroll in that if they get caught, all will be forgiven within a few weeks, then what exactly have we created? I know its dramatic and probably overly simplistic but I am honestly worried about the future of being able to play online. The last year or so has been dramabomb after dramabomb, scandal after scandal. How are we supposed to continually fight that poker is such a game of skill when all that comes out in the media is how much cheating is going on? Instead of having the government use poker as an example, AP should be made an example by those of us that play poker.Edit: Okay, just occurred to me that Zach is Canadian so I should say that his fish pond will get smaller if US regulations get tighter. And who knows if it gets bad enough, other countries might follow.

My views, not to be argumentative, just my thoughts:1) I don't think this will happen again on AP. They seem to be taking the right steps to get rid of those people, and anyone connected to them, at this point.2) I'm really not that worried about US regulations getting tighter. All I hear about all day from a friend on here is how soft the Euro sites are. They certainly are not going anywhere.Otherwise, I agree.

[Abbaddabba 0]

I dunno. I guess for me, giving up money short term should be worth the principle long term.

This is probably because your mgr is very small. If it made the difference between making 2k a month in rakeback and making 10k a month in effective benefits, i dont think you would be making that kind of a sacrifice. I think you'll say that you would. But i really doubt you would. Because it would be completely retarded.If it pained me to benefit at other peoples expense that much, i wouldnt be playing poker in the first place.To say that the precedence you set for the industry as an individual can come even CLOSE to offsetting the overwhelming leap in benefits is laughable.

[RDog 0]

This is probably because your mgr is very small. If it made the difference between making 2k a month in rakeback and making 10k a month in effective benefits, i dont think you would be making that kind of a sacrifice. I think you'll say that you would. But i really doubt you would. Because it would be completely retarded.If it pained me to benefit at other peoples expense that much, i wouldnt be playing poker in the first place.To say that the precedence you set for the industry as an individual can come even CLOSE to offsetting the overwhelming leap in benefits is laughable.

If this is so true, then why are there several high stakes players who have made this decision? Are they all retarded? Or is it maybe something else?Like I said, you and Zach have tough decisions because it looks like AP is just handing you guys over money. I find that in itself pretty ironic since it is easy to hand players over money to keep them playing when eventually it will regurgitate right back to you or will be stolen from other players. Let's not forgot the people in charge of your "bonus system" are the exact same ones that robbed the players of all this money. It's fine if you think my ethics or ability to look at the long term would be different if I were the one making the choice. I can't say 100% that I would make that decision if I were put in the spot but I hope I would.

[seemorenuts 0]

I'll mention it again, and it's so simple you just have to take some time to think about it to let it sink in:The Naturalistic Fallacy pertains to the idea thatYou cannot derive what you OUGHT to do from what IS.If an issue has moral dimensions, the above applies, you get all sorts of counterintuitive results from it, making you think you made a mistake using it because of your old bad habits... Yes, I'm talking to YOU, no, not him, YOU!Just think about examples throughout history, I won't be specific because then some will misunderstand how analogies work: (I can't believe you compared something really serious to this issue!).

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I'll mention it again, and it's so simple you just have to take some time to think about it to let it sink in:The Naturalistic Fallacy pertains to the idea thatYou cannot derive what you OUGHT to do from what IS.If an issue has moral dimensions, the above applies, you get all sorts of counterintuitive results from it, making you think you made a mistake using it because of your old bad habits... Yes, I'm talking to YOU, no, not him, YOU!Just think about examples throughout history, I won't be specific because then some will misunderstand how analogies work: (I can't believe you compared something really serious to this issue!).

Ryland has been a far more interesting, on topic, and insightful poster than you lately. You've been trying so hard to come across as clever that your posts are just falling flat and feel pretentious.

[Loismustdie 0]

If I posted a thread right now offering 10 Stakes to a AP Tourney in exchange for a naked pic of the player, I would have 100 emails of various naked dudes in an hour. Just saying. Actually, I may be on to something.

[hblask 1]

If I posted a thread right now offering 10 Stakes to a AP Tourney in exchange for a naked pic of the player, I would have 100 emails of various naked dudes in an hour. Just saying. Actually, I may be on to something.

Hmmm, my new "Stakes for Women" program may be taking shape....

[seemorenuts 0]

Ryland has been a far more interesting, on topic, and insightful poster than you lately. You've been trying so hard to come across as clever that your posts are just falling flat and feel pretentious.

Lol, you are hallucinating, pretentious? I made it as plain as possible, you are immune to learning and you are just... jealous...

[hblask 1]

Video of Mark Seif defending Absolute. It's not clear when it was filmed, or how much he knew, and he generally just talks like a corporate spokesperson.

[GWCGWC 83]

I'll mention it again, and it's so simple you just have to take some time to think about it to let it sink in:The Naturalistic Fallacy pertains to the idea thatYou cannot derive what you OUGHT to do from what IS.If an issue has moral dimensions, the above applies, you get all sorts of counterintuitive results from it, making you think you made a mistake using it because of your old bad habits... Yes, I'm talking to YOU, no, not him, YOU!Just think about examples throughout history, I won't be specific because then some will misunderstand how analogies work: (I can't believe you compared something really serious to this issue!).

Would you mind confirming if my read is spot on and disclosing what psychotropic drugs you take? I'm thinking Zoloft or Lithium.

[Loismustdie 0]

Put some money on AP today. It's like...they know my cards or something. I don't get it.

[seemorenuts 0]

Would you mind confirming if my read is spot on and disclosing what psychotropic drugs you take? I'm thinking Zoloft or Lithium.

The reason I added the jokes was that falling for the naturalistic fallacy is so common, and that probably you'd also fall for it.Unless you think Zach is right, you should have no need to comment on my post.Here are two ancient examples I remember back when I was a youngster...Alex Baumann stating that we shouldn't divest in South Africa because "it wouldn't do any good"...President Pritchard? (can't remember) of the University of Toronto saying the same thing...Now substitute the people and the topic... For you tools that poke fun at my post, you might be stopping some youngster from learning something, and that wouldn't be very nice, now would it?

[Zach6668 513]

What am I right about?I didn't follow your posts...

[Elo and AG 0]

So who believes that Mark Seif didn't know anything about the AP "super user" account ????In a video on rawvegas, he acts a bit weird when he talks about A.J. Green when he says that they've met lately and that he (A.J.) never said anything about "hole cards"....... LMAO I don't know about my reading skills in poker, but when he says that, he looks like he's busted.....Now that all hell is breaking loose at Absolute, It's kinda weird, that he (Mark Seif) was accused of cheating in a online session back in 2006....Things that make you go hmmmmmmm........

[Zach6668 513]

Seif's a douchebag.

[Elo and AG 0]

Seif's a douchebag.

My thoughts exactly......

[GWCGWC 83]

Unless you think Zach is right, you should have no need to comment on my post.

I didn't comment about your post so this fits in with my 'read'. It's a personal thing so I understand not wanting to disclose medications. I probably shouldn't have asked.Back on topic:I found these things funny:He feels it's necessary to mention that this could happen on FTP or PS. Calling out DanDruff. Going so far as accusing DD of libel. Commenting on his previous encounters with AJ Green.Addressing but not addressing the hand history of his in question.Claiming the way AP has handled the situation shows what a great company they are.etc...

[Elo and AG 0]

Back on topic:I found these things funny:He feels it's necessary to mention that this could happen on FTP or PS. Calling out DanDruff. Going so far as accusing DD of libel. Commenting on his previous encounters with AJ Green.Addressing but not addressing the hand history of his in question.Claiming the way AP has handled the situation shows what a great company they are.etc...

Well, I'm always willing to give the benefit of a doubt to someone before proven guilty, but he seems to be full of crap.....lolLike you said, when he says that this could happen to either PS or FT. Wow, it's like if he get's caught stealing an old woman's purse and then would say; well Daniel Negreanu could get caught also stealing a purse..... lmaoThis ole video seems setup and the guy that wrote the script should be fired......

[thebottomline 0]

He feels it's necessary to mention that this could happen on FTP or PS. Calling out DanDruff. Going so far as accusing DD of libel.

Yeah, funny those two. Accuse DD of libel and then does pretty much the same to FTP or PS, accusing them of something on absolutely no basis whatsoever, other than to hide his own arse. I hope FTP or PS do something about that, because it's an extremely big statement to make and is similar to defamation of character.

[RDog 0]

LOL, the AP/UB group is so incredibly bad. Poker would be better off if both companies just died. At first I read this post and thought it was a bunch of BS but Jennifear is very well respected and confirms OP's claims to be true. This also was brought up by Dan Druff in the AP thread at the higher limits. At what point are these companies held responsible for them running horrible sites?http://www.pocketfives.com/386ECB5D-C78B-4...B071624815.aspxI would actually go watch the tables myself but I refuse to download AP or UB.