Holes In My Cash Game

[addaminsane 0]

I've been pretty frustrated with my cash game experience of late. Recap... Successful tourney player for 2 years, took up cash game 6 months ago. It's difficult to spot your own leaks, but here are the ones I feel stand out.1. Getting value from big hands. So, I've got some knowledge as to HOW to do this, but I tend not to get a ton of action so I find myself value betting JUST to get a call. The lack of action might have something to do with how I approach these hands, but I couldn't say what I'm doing wrong there.2. Not drawing when I probably have the odds (pot and implied) to do so, thus creating fewer chances to make a big hand when my opponent is playing something good. I generally will take a big draw through the turn and then fold if I miss. I rarely draw HU at all unless I'm controlling the action or my opponent bets really weak. I am way more likely to make a play than gambool.AH-HA LIGHTBULB MOMENT (refer to #1)... My big hands come mostly from unraised pots, so yes, there likely is an approach issue.3. Not taking advantage of perceived weakness of my opponent. Which is strange because I'm very effective when I do bluff, but I think I give up more than I should when I miss, this is probably a result of "playing scared". I am more likely to try and steal a medium size pot, and just not bother with the small pots.4. Not calling the river with a marginal hand. I'm not sure about this one, because I know my read ability is one of my advantages, but I think there's a margin of error that could be improved upon.Notice, every single one of these leaks likely has roots in my successful tournament strategy. Not really significant, but adds to my frustration. I know there are many more leaks that I'm just not picking up on right now, and as far as the above ones go, I'm not sure what I'm looking for as far as feedback, but if anything comes to mind I'd appreciate a response.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Something else you might want to consider is that position is even more important in a deep game. As compared to what you do in a tournament, play even tighter in early position and looser in late position. There can be significant action on the turn and river, so you get your positional advantage on more streets.

[Alina 0]

I've been pretty frustrated with my cash game experience of late. Recap... Successful tourney player for 2 years, took up cash game 6 months ago. It's difficult to spot your own leaks, but here are the ones I feel stand out.1. Getting value from big hands. So, I've got some knowledge as to HOW to do this, but I tend not to get a ton of action so I find myself value betting JUST to get a call. The lack of action might have something to do with how I approach these hands, but I couldn't say what I'm doing wrong there.2. Not drawing when I probably have the odds (pot and implied) to do so, thus creating fewer chances to make a big hand when my opponent is playing something good. I generally will take a big draw through the turn and then fold if I miss. I rarely draw HU at all unless I'm controlling the action or my opponent bets really weak. I am way more likely to make a play than gambool.AH-HA LIGHTBULB MOMENT (refer to #1)... My big hands come mostly from unraised pots, so yes, there likely is an approach issue.3. Not taking advantage of perceived weakness of my opponent. Which is strange because I'm very effective when I do bluff, but I think I give up more than I should when I miss, this is probably a result of "playing scared". I am more likely to try and steal a medium size pot, and just not bother with the small pots.4. Not calling the river with a marginal hand. I'm not sure about this one, because I know my read ability is one of my advantages, but I think there's a margin of error that could be improved upon.Notice, every single one of these leaks likely has roots in my successful tournament strategy. Not really significant, but adds to my frustration. I know there are many more leaks that I'm just not picking up on right now, and as far as the above ones go, I'm not sure what I'm looking for as far as feedback, but if anything comes to mind I'd appreciate a response.

Tourneys are more luck than skill like a cash game. Basically, it's acceptable to take coin flips in tourneys on grounds that "oh blinds are rising"; and not do very much when blinds are low. So in a cash game, tourney players either never get going, because the blinds aren't going up to give them their cue.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I've been pretty frustrated with my cash game experience of late. Recap... Successful tourney player for 2 years, took up cash game 6 months ago. It's difficult to spot your own leaks, but here are the ones I feel stand out.1. Getting value from big hands. So, I've got some knowledge as to HOW to do this, but I tend not to get a ton of action so I find myself value betting JUST to get a call. The lack of action might have something to do with how I approach these hands, but I couldn't say what I'm doing wrong there.

Are you playing Live or On-line?People who are not getting "value" from big hands are likely giving off some sort of pattern betting tell. If you have established yourself as a TAG and only play quality hands, then guess what? You're not going to get value when you finally try and bet your big hand. Everyone sees it coming. I am NOT an online player, but I have a theory that online players pick up on these betting pattern tells much more quickly than Live players. This is because they are more tuned into them - it is their PRIMARY source of information about a new player. Just like a blind man can learn to get extra information from his sense of hearing (it doesn't mean he hears better than a sighted persoon, he just learns to interpret more from it). Live players have other "senses" to gain information. Getting value from a big hand isn't just about how you approach that hand, but also includes the whole story you're telling your opponents. Just like bulffing isn't about a single hand, position, or bet, it must be part of the whole story.

[David_Nicoson 1]

1. Getting value from big hands. So, I've got some knowledge as to HOW to do this, but I tend not to get a ton of action so I find myself value betting JUST to get a call. The lack of action might have something to do with how I approach these hands, but I couldn't say what I'm doing wrong there.

It's important to play for stacks with big hands whenever we can. If sometimes we scare someone off when they don't have much, that's not a big deal. Don't think you have to be called every time.Suppose you raise with J J . There's one caller. The flop comes:K J 5 :spade:I like to bet right out. If you're thinking, "How can I get called if he doesn't have a king or a straight draw?", then you're focusing on the wrong thing.

[Sheiky 0]

Maybe you're trying to hard to adjust to playing cash games?Chris Ferguson wrote an article on FTP about how a lot of people would be better of playing tournaments like they play cash games instead of making the strategy changes they do make. His point was that people should focus on playing their best poker instead of trying to force themselves to make tournament specific plays that often get people into trouble.After reading that i decided to forget about overall and specific strategies for different types of poker and just played my game, and it worked. When i started focusing less on how i should play in a tournament, i started focusing on my natural game and made better decisions all round and stopped worrying about stuff like the chip average and the bubble position.I know that it's right to have some tournament strategy, but for me i play better just playing pure poker instead of out thinking myself trying to be a fancy tournament player.Maybe it would work for you in cash games just playing you best game and trying to forget your playing in a cash game and that you should be doing things differently from what you normaly do?

[Alina 0]

Maybe you're trying to hard to adjust to playing cash games?Chris Ferguson wrote an article on FTP about how a lot of people would be better of playing tournaments like they play cash games instead of making the strategy changes they do make. His point was that people should focus on playing their best poker instead of trying to force themselves to make tournament specific plays that often get people into trouble.After reading that i decided to forget about overall and specific strategies for different types of poker and just played my game, and it worked. When i started focusing less on how i should play in a tournament, i started focusing on my natural game and made better decisions all round and stopped worrying about stuff like the chip average and the bubble position.I know that it's right to have some tournament strategy, but for me i play better just playing pure poker instead of out thinking myself trying to be a fancy tournament player.Maybe it would work for you in cash games just playing you best game and trying to forget your playing in a cash game and that you should be doing things differently from what you normaly do?

Yeah, and just believe in yourself and think happy thoughts.

[pokerinc 0]

those are some big ass leaks. Start with the 'my big pots are the unraised ones' and go from there.Play raise or fold. Since I've started playing for a living, I've almost eliminated the limp from my pre flop game. I play short handed so I don't think there's ever a good reason to limp there, while I used to a little in full ring. But seriously. Get in the pots aggressively and stay aggressive. I really think that's your starting point, the other stuff is whatever. But limping and looking for miracle flops isn't a strategy that wins a good enough amount of the time.GL.

[psujohn 0]

Raise or fold is easy to say for online. Low stakes live NL plays WAAAAAY different. Namely because pre-flop raises tend to be so much larger and can still be called in multiple places. At a recent 1/2 table I saw 8 limpers, raise to 12 and 8 people to the flop. You just don't see play like that online. Unfortunately it's also impossible to find short handed tables live too.As for how to win big pots with big hands, the answer is generally to play them fast. You win a big pot when you have a big hand and your opponent has a pretty big hand himself. Just a few data point to illustrate. Live 1/2 4 to the flop with lets say a $12 raise. I have 77. Flop comes AA7. Checks around. Turn 4. I bet 20 and get one caller. River 4. I check and call a small bet. Villain turns over AA. If he bets the flop or raises the turn he takes my stack. The only exception is when you flop a monster and have the board so sewn up you need to let your opponents catch up. Namely you flop quads, a boat or the nut flush.

[GabeTheKid 0]

get pokertracker/thread

[eYank 0]

those are some big ass leaks. Start with the 'my big pots are the unraised ones' and go from there.Play raise or fold. Since I've started playing for a living, I've almost eliminated the limp from my pre flop game. I play short handed so I don't think there's ever a good reason to limp there, while I used to a little in full ring. But seriously. Get in the pots aggressively and stay aggressive. I really think that's your starting point, the other stuff is whatever. But limping and looking for miracle flops isn't a strategy that wins a good enough amount of the time.GL.

Ive realized this a lot tooSometimes Ill start playing a sng and get distracted with an IM or something, so I wont be focusing on the game and when I play a hand Im uually just calling bc Im not paying much attention and then I lose most of my chips, but when Im paying attention and raising ect. I win more pots

[addaminsane 0]

i play online mostly, cuz of all the bonuses and vip programs you can really make money with. once in a while i'll play in a card room just because its more fun.

[iLove 0]

Something else you might want to consider is that position is even more important in a deep game. As compared to what you do in a tournament, play even tighter in early position and looser in late position. There can be significant action on the turn and river, so you get your positional advantage on more streets.

Well said!

[whatgreatis 0]

I've been pretty frustrated with my cash game experience of late. Recap... Successful tourney player for 2 years, took up cash game 6 months ago. It's difficult to spot your own leaks, but here are the ones I feel stand out.1. Getting value from big hands. So, I've got some knowledge as to HOW to do this, but I tend not to get a ton of action so I find myself value betting JUST to get a call. The lack of action might have something to do with how I approach these hands, but I couldn't say what I'm doing wrong there.2. Not drawing when I probably have the odds (pot and implied) to do so, thus creating fewer chances to make a big hand when my opponent is playing something good. I generally will take a big draw through the turn and then fold if I miss. I rarely draw HU at all unless I'm controlling the action or my opponent bets really weak. I am way more likely to make a play than gambool.AH-HA LIGHTBULB MOMENT (refer to #1)... My big hands come mostly from unraised pots, so yes, there likely is an approach issue.3. Not taking advantage of perceived weakness of my opponent. Which is strange because I'm very effective when I do bluff, but I think I give up more than I should when I miss, this is probably a result of "playing scared". I am more likely to try and steal a medium size pot, and just not bother with the small pots.4. Not calling the river with a marginal hand. I'm not sure about this one, because I know my read ability is one of my advantages, but I think there's a margin of error that could be improved upon.Notice, every single one of these leaks likely has roots in my successful tournament strategy. Not really significant, but adds to my frustration. I know there are many more leaks that I'm just not picking up on right now, and as far as the above ones go, I'm not sure what I'm looking for as far as feedback, but if anything comes to mind I'd appreciate a response.

Heres my advice1. Play more pots and with more marginal hands. You're probably a rock and everyone knows it. I know quite a few rocks exactly like you, they pick up a good hand and have trouble getting action so they bet small. When they bet small I call with almost any draw and sometimes get there. Next time you look down at 46s raise with it, it'll change your image.2. See your draws to the river and don't always check/call with a draw. Switch it up and sometimes check/raise if you think your opponent is weak. Go ahead and bet draws if you sense weakness and its okay to see a draw to the river. You don't have to fold on the turn.3. Small pots are the easiest to steal because its unlikely anyone has a big hand. I frequently steal small pots in cash games by betting draws or by betting nothing at all. You also need to attack your opponents like its warfare. Warfare might be a bit extreme but you get the idea. Exploit them because you want their money.4. This one is situational, if there are hands you can beat that your opponent might have go ahead and call. If you can beat the majority of his range its worth while calling and if its an aggressive opponent you will have to be a lot more liberal in your calls.

[Gene zzz 0]

I think that those are not really holes man, but mortal errors and wellll just what you should do. How you have ever won one dollar I would like to know? don't do those things then do those things first and by the way you really have have to call down because the day you can read is the day you will know who to raise fool (polite). If you bet a wired pair like that and mourn his AA How about drawing to a straight flush on implied odds in NL in a tourney with 400,000 chips a royal flush is only 50,000 to 1. To win my fellow (pat on the back) bet!!! sorry to hear you are doing so bad and also those problems are limit Holdem concerns not NL ;truly in NL those things donot exist. All things must end therefore every plus equity raise must come in. In poker there is no ""no exit". but I know you can do it so them draws is gambling son but again you play people and they won't let you bet the drawds and keep missing let them give you the pot make a big pot is let them give you a big pot. Bye and if you keep those habits up just call me Ill play I need money and you will have those advantages you can watch me call down all day

[uncooper 1]

All things must end therefore every plus equity raise must come in.

[gjtgsdfuruf 0]

Good idea.

[conor_mw 0]

i suck at cash games... +1

[Royal_Tour 0]

i'm guessing this is NL HE?learn to play LAG. learn to respect the dollar, but not value money.with tourneys you go in with lets say a 100.0 buy in. you know u lose that 100. whoopie. which is why cash game mentality is so much different.learn the mentality before you try and adjust your game

[jonslow412 0]

1. Getting value from big hands. So, I've got some knowledge as to HOW to do this, but I tend not to get a ton of action so I find myself value betting JUST to get a call. The lack of action might have something to do with how I approach these hands, but I couldn't say what I'm doing wrong there.2. Not drawing when I probably have the odds (pot and implied) to do so, thus creating fewer chances to make a big hand when my opponent is playing something good. I generally will take a big draw through the turn and then fold if I miss. I rarely draw HU at all unless I'm controlling the action or my opponent bets really weak. I am way more likely to make a play than gambool.AH-HA LIGHTBULB MOMENT (refer to #1)... My big hands come mostly from unraised pots, so yes, there likely is an approach issue.3. Not taking advantage of perceived weakness of my opponent. Which is strange because I'm very effective when I do bluff, but I think I give up more than I should when I miss, this is probably a result of "playing scared". I am more likely to try and steal a medium size pot, and just not bother with the small pots.4. Not calling the river with a marginal hand. I'm not sure about this one, because I know my read ability is one of my advantages, but I think there's a margin of error that could be improved upon.

1. It is important to know what sized bet to make in every situation. Some players might be calling stations. Others might not call anything but a minimum-sized bet. You need to know how the players in the pot with you play. Also, on boards that only you could have hit hard, you might want to slow-play a little more than usual to let your opponent(s) catch a card. On a checked flop, I see so many players overbet a card they hit on the turn. Just observe the players you play with, know how each bets and calls, and use that knowlege to determine how to best get the most money out of them. Try to keep in mind some previous hands they have played and how they played them.2. For you, not gambling is the way you play. That's fine. But in cash games, it is important to always make the positive equity play. For instance, any time you have the pott odds to call (barring pre-flop with players behind you), it is important to make the play because in tyhe long run in cash games, you will make money. If you have 1.2 to 1 odds to call a raise in a race situation, make the play. If you miss and you do the same thing later on, you make money. Cash games aren't always about short gain or loss. Also, try to keep in mind that implied odds are important, too. If you have pot odds to call and you know that if you make your hand, there is a ton of money not in the pot you can win, it can be very valuable to call. Just remember that cash games are not like tournaments. You can bust out of a tournament on a coin flip and be done. In cash games, you can go broke in a race, come back and win a race and gain maoney.3. As far as "playing scared", that's just a mental block that you need to get over to be successful. Good pokert players have to be able to follow their instincts, no matter how much is at stake. If you have a gut feeling you're facing a bluff, don't doubt yourself. Good poker players don't doubt their reads or abilities.4. Calling a bet with a marginal hand on the river can make or break you sometimes. It's not something you can do all the time, but something you can definately take advantage of in the right situation. Think of every hand as a story. As you piece together how your opponent has played the hand, try to figure out all the pieces of the puzzle, including betting patterns and tells. On the river, if you feel you might have the best hand with bottom pair, you just might.It's great that you want to fill the holes in your game. I have done that successfully (but never fully) by reading a number of poker books, including Daniel Negreanu's book, both of Phil Gordon's books, Hellmuth's book, Supersystem, and Barry Greenstein's "Ace on the River". You can improve so much by reading and taking knowlege in. Just remember that the great thing about poker is that you can never be perfect, but you can improve exponentially.

[D5Greene 0]

in a cash game, your main goal is to get paid off....If you are a smart player, your goal is to win 1 big hand per hour and you will profit. You have to only play when you raise pre-flop, and dont be afriad to make some continuation bets or bet with your suited connectors...you want the loose image, but you want to present that image when the time is right so when you do have JJ and the flop is K, J, 2...somoene with the king is definitely going to push on you if you continuation bet, and usually push hard. Boom, all your loose image play pays you off. You dont want players to know you will only play your big hands, because it is easily exploited and easily avoidable. you have to keep them guessing, and in order to do that you have to know when to foldem