kylestheman 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I've been playing in free games for a while now honing my craft, and have entertained the idea of entering in some money games. Well I've saved up $100, and have thought about entering the micro stakes games on pokerstars preferrably the 0.01/0.02 NL hold em games.I was told by a fellow poker player That if I entered in anything lower than $3/$6 games, that i would be wasting my time. I'm confused cause I've never played money games before. I definitely don't think with starting bankroll of $100 that playing $3/$6 blinds would be smart. Where would be a good place to start? any advice would be most helpfull.kyleP.S. please no trash talk :-) Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Start at 0.01/0.02.Seriously.Also, forget almost everything you think you learned by playing play money. Generally, it's not a good approximation for how real money games, even 1c/2c games, play.Seriously though, if you never want to reload again, and you want to play NL, make sure you always have 20-25 buyins for whatever level you are playing. I think the buyin at 1c/2c is usually $5, so if you plan on buyin in for the max al the time, then $100 = 20 buyins.However, if you are not a winning player (most likely the case at this point), you will probably have to reload at one point anyways. Don't be discouraged by that, (almost) everybody has gone through that, as most players lose money trying to learn this game.For the most part, your best bet, is to play be conservative with your bankroll, and grind it out at the lowest levels, until you get the bankroll/comfort for the higher levels.Also, you'll hear a lot of people say stuff like "you can't beat the low levels cuz no one folds", "move up where they respect your raises", etc. Don't listen to that. If you can't beat 1c/2c, you can't beat 3/6 NL. Seriously. I imagine this is the viewpoint your friend is taking.If you're having trouble with the 1c/2c, and haven't figured out the methods that are good to beat that, visit our strat forums and post some hands, ask questions, etc.Hint for the 1c/2c though, make hands, and value bet. Refrain from bluffing.Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Agreed.Start at the bottom and work up. Don't move up until you are beating a level. This means if you lose your 100, don't deposit a 1000 and try a higher level. That's what I did and I learned the very expensive way. Learn to beat the game not throw money at it and you'll actually succeed. When I finally decided that's what I would do I was able to become a winning player. Plus I can found the strat section of this site which I believe was the final piece to my game.Read stuff on here, if the hands discussions are over your head read a basic book then try some more.Good luck man. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Interesting.I started right into $1/2 No Limit. Primarily because I only play live and that was the smallest cash game I could find. I have played some Home Games that were .25/.50I likely was VERY lucky to learn the game in small Tournies and then started on a heater my first few live NL sessions that built my confidence (and bankroll).In retrospect, this was probably not the wisest approach to getting into the game - but Moneymaker convinced me I could be next!Did you guys find that "micro limit" is "real poker"? Link to post Share on other sites
Kid DynOmite 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 No offense, but your friend is a retard. Good players can make 100s a day and actually earn a decent living playing stakes as low as .25/.5 (if you 8-12 table). If you want good strategy and a good place to post questions on microstakes, I'd recommend you make an account on twoplustwo.com. Heres a link to the microstakes page: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist...Board=microplnlStart playing .01/.02 and just play abc poker... don't try anything crazy, only bluff in the form of continuation bets which you should make often... Value bet thin, and don't try to slow play. They'll pay off your hands if you bet them (not always obv, but it's the right play.) Also, be really LAG on the button and the cutoff Lets see anything else... oh, re raise with AQ.your raises should be .08 if someone bets .08 and you are re raising make it 10-14X the bb. Link to post Share on other sites
DB10-2 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 there are good, disciplined players at every level. i find players at micro limits usually fall into two categories: bad players just starting out, and those who are pretty decent but lack a bankroll to play higher. you rarely find the whales with thousands of dollars to dust off playing losing online poker at $.10-$.25 tables... Link to post Share on other sites
BDPoolie 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I've been playing in free games for a while now honing my craft, and have entertained the idea of entering in some money games. Well I've saved up $100, and have thought about entering the micro stakes games on pokerstars preferrably the 0.01/0.02 NL hold em games.I was told by a fellow poker player That if I entered in anything lower than $3/$6 games, that i would be wasting my time. I'm confused cause I've never played money games before. I definitely don't think with starting bankroll of $100 that playing $3/$6 blinds would be smart. Where would be a good place to start? any advice would be most helpfull.kyleP.S. please no trash talk :-)For some reason, this made me laugh. Link to post Share on other sites
Kid DynOmite 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 For some reason, this made me laugh.Boning my my craft?Horny my craft?I see it just enough to agree. Link to post Share on other sites
Skittles 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I've been playing in free games for a while now honing my craft, and have entertained the idea of entering in some money games. Well I've saved up $100, and have thought about entering the micro stakes games on pokerstars preferrably the 0.01/0.02 NL hold em games.I was told by a fellow poker player That if I entered in anything lower than $3/$6 games, that i would be wasting my time. I'm confused cause I've never played money games before. I definitely don't think with starting bankroll of $100 that playing $3/$6 blinds would be smart. Where would be a good place to start? any advice would be most helpfull.kyleP.S. please no trash talk :-)I'd start at 0.05/0.10 NL buying in for $5, I don't think it's a great idea for newer players to play 100BB+ deep and unless I'm mistaken (which I could be), the buy in for .01/.02 would still be 100xBB = $2 no?. If you lose 4 buy ins, I'd drop down. Learn to play tight poker, since that's all you need at these levels to win.Edit: I personally find minbet poker to be much easier than NL at lower limits. I sold stars play money on eBay 3 years ago, turned $11 into over $2000 in just a few months grinding up the limits, starting at 0.02/0.04 HU to 5/10. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 That's not a bad point.I'd rather learn 100 BB poker though, not 50 BB though.Maybe 0.02/0.05 for $5. Link to post Share on other sites
Skittles 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 That's not a bad point.I'd rather learn 100 BB poker though, not 50 BB though.Maybe 0.02/0.05 for $5.I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but I think new players tend to give up a lot by playing even 100BB deep because they often have trouble finding folds with their AA type hands. But I guess at the same time, this might be alright because at these limits you might be burning money instead of cashing in on crazy action. Like with AA on a KQJ board, you are likely to find opponents at this level willing to ship in 100BB with K7. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 That's true, but I think the ultimate goal should be to learn to play, not necessarily profit, at this level. Right? I would prefer to learn the game I plan on playing as I move up (100 BB+ poker), imo. I think it'd be for the best overall. Link to post Share on other sites
monix 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I strongly agree with everyone who says start at the bottom and work your way up.The one thing I would add is to consider playing Limit HE, not NL. It allows you to play more hands with less risk in losing your stack. In my first year of poker, I played about 100,000 hands starting at .01/02 and moving up when I had a good BB/100 over at least 10,000 hands at each level. I then moved to NL, and I only play Limit in live play now, but it provided a great foundation.As an aside, I have started playing the HORSE games in the last 2 months, and the year of playing LHE was fabulous in preparing me to learn these other limit games. Link to post Share on other sites
hblask 1 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Your friend may have been referring to live games; it is very difficult to beat the rake in live games even at the 3/6 level. At those levels, especially in limit poker, it's "any ace or face, all the way to the river", which means you basically have to wait for cards and don't get sucked out on. The rake tends to offset those times. It's not impossible, just difficult.Online is a different story, even (and perhaps especially) the lowest levels are easy to beat. At the low levels, it's all about being tight and waiting for good starting cards, and betting aggressively when you hit. You can move up several levels before any kind of tricky play is required or even profitable. Link to post Share on other sites
Cappy37 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 If you are doing micro limits and sticking to the cash games, you will be fine. If you are trying to clear a bonus, it's going to be a lot harder, because you aren't going to rack up enough FPP without playing Sit and Gos and Multi Table Tourneys.. And at the micro limits, the rake on Sit and Gos and MTTs are enough to make you go busto if you play break-even poker for a couple months. Stick to your cash games, and I'd definitely play 0.02/0.05 if you have good live experience, it'll get your blood pumping a bit more. GL and welcome to a life of degenerecy! Link to post Share on other sites
Kid DynOmite 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 If you are doing micro limits and sticking to the cash games, you will be fine. If you are trying to clear a bonus, it's going to be a lot harder, because you aren't going to rack up enough FPP without playing Sit and Gos and Multi Table Tourneys.. And at the micro limits, the rake on Sit and Gos and MTTs are enough to make you go busto if you play break-even poker for a couple months. Stick to your cash games, and I'd definitely play 0.02/0.05 if you have good live experience, it'll get your blood pumping a bit more. GL and welcome to a life of degenerecy! Seriously, one day I will figure out how I could be making 100-200k a year playing poker while going to school, and the next day I "quit". Then the next day I quit. Then I feel like i am the greatest player ever again...btw, what i did to build my br was use my br to buy into one deepstack tourny and i got 4th in it... 1K and i was off to the races. Since then, I've decided that I cant play tournys with either good enough structures or big enough money with my br. Damn, I'll just have to wait until I can play that super tuesday thingy... Assuming I don't quit.The only reason I write so much is because I don't want to finish writing this ***** ****ing piece of **** paper that I have to write.cheers,ps: Raleffull tilt: OMGDANNYBACKER Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings7 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 If I was you (never having played real money poker) I would work my way up starting at 1c/2c poker. You can learn the game there and not risk much money. The games play lose passive for the most part but your bluffs will get called down by almost any hand that is even close to reasonable. Continuation bets should be your only bluff. Also, if you are interested in moving up the right way, make sure you have at least 20 buy-ins to each level you play. Obviously, this is the same thing everyone else is saying, so listen to the advice. Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 A little background on myself after playing poker for a bit over two years. I started playing live due to the poker explosion on ESPN. I played 3/6 limit at the casinos with $100 buy-ins. I had no clue what I was doing but the play was poor enough that I was able to sit back, wait for hands, and make a little profit.Enter online play. I figured 3/6 live was the same as 3/6 online and boy was I in for a rude awakening. I made a deposit of $60 and with my deposit bonus I was able to buy-in to my first table for around $75. I quickly doubled up within the first few orbits and boy did I think I was on the fast track to TP/MM. About 30 minutes later I went busto.I made another deposit, dropped a few limits and played up and down. A deposit would last a week or so and I continued to get up a bit and then eventually bust. I did this for about 6 months before taking the advice from forums like this and decided to start playing within my bankroll, but it was tough to go from winning a few hundred here and there live to winning $5 and $10 pots at lower limits. It still took me another 4 or 5 months and a few more busts to re-examine how I was going to attack online poker. Here's where things started to turn around. I decided to stick to lower limits, set a bankroll management plan and stick to it. At the beginning of this year I made my first deposit on Stars with $25 and started playing their .02/.05 full ring NL games with a $10 max buy-in. I'd load up a two tables and played with $5 each which gave me 100xBBs. From their I was able to learn the game a little better and eventually move up to the .05/.10 tables, then the .12/.25 tables, and now I'm playing .25/.50 and .50/1.00 6 max games. The early grind is tough when you're reading hands where players are taking down pots in the hundreds. But most of those players started out just as you and I did, will. Start playing low limits within your bankroll and as soon as you're winning and have built up enough money, jump to the next level. A lot of times it will take a few attempts at the next limit up until you figure out the average players skill level and make the appropriate adjustments. It takes time, but with proper discipline and a desire to learn your "craft", you'll do fine and work your way up. Play limits within your bankroll and let the game develop and come to you in time.Best of luck to you. It's a great game and there's a lot of potential to make good money for those willing to play it smart. Link to post Share on other sites
ObeyTheDog 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Start at 0.01/0.02.Seriously.Also, forget almost everything you think you learned by playing play money. Generally, it's not a good approximation for how real money games, even 1c/2c games, play.Seriously though, if you never want to reload again, and you want to play NL, make sure you always have 20-25 buyins for whatever level you are playing. I think the buyin at 1c/2c is usually $5, so if you plan on buyin in for the max al the time, then $100 = 20 buyins.However, if you are not a winning player (most likely the case at this point), you will probably have to reload at one point anyways. Don't be discouraged by that, (almost) everybody has gone through that, as most players lose money trying to learn this game.For the most part, your best bet, is to play be conservative with your bankroll, and grind it out at the lowest levels, until you get the bankroll/comfort for the higher levels.Also, you'll hear a lot of people say stuff like "you can't beat the low levels cuz no one folds", "move up where they respect your raises", etc. Don't listen to that. If you can't beat 1c/2c, you can't beat 3/6 NL. Seriously. I imagine this is the viewpoint your friend is taking.If you're having trouble with the 1c/2c, and haven't figured out the methods that are good to beat that, visit our strat forums and post some hands, ask questions, etc.Hint for the 1c/2c though, make hands, and value bet. Refrain from bluffing.Good luck. Well said Zach. After this 1st reply, I think you can stop reading OP....which means you aren't reading this. But if you never read this, how would you know not to....whooooaaa.tree falling in the woods, tree falling in the woods, tree falling in the woods. Link to post Share on other sites
kylestheman 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 For some reason, this made me laugh.You know what made me laugh is your wonderful adviceThanks for nothingas for everybody else thank you so much I appreciate it Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 You know what made me laugh is your wonderful adviceThanks for nothingas for everybody else thank you so much I appreciate itLOL the bitterness is strong in this one.... you will fit in just fine Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 You know what made me laugh is your wonderful adviceThanks for nothingas for everybody else thank you so much I appreciate itLighten up Francis.Welcome to the Internets. Link to post Share on other sites
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