RISEorFall 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Full Tilt 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Bet The Pot)Preflop: Hero is MP3 with [Ad], [Jd]. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.Flop: (8 SB) [Ks], [8d], [Th] (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.Turn: (4 BB) [Js] (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds.River: (6 BB) [Kd] (3 players)UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 8 BBgood? I think I c-bet too much on boards where it's very probable someone hit when there's more than 1 or 2 people in the handif this was HU or 3 handed I'd bet the flop Link to post Share on other sites
mjd 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I don't think I bet that flop against 3 others either.Also, I raise or fold that turn. Probably tending towards folding. If I'm raising, I'm hoping for a cheap showdown unless I hit a Q and I'm hoping to eliminate the people behind who might be drawing.But ISA(Limit)P, so YMMV :-) Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I think with an over, gutshot, and backdoor flushdraw, c-betting this flop on the button may be ok.As played, I'd probably raise the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
Viper_13 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 May not be right, but I c-bet here. I c-bet almost all the time whether I hit or miss, and here I probably still would. Even if I get called all around, I've got a little more info. If I was UTG+1, I would bet the turn with any piece, or a draw, after the flop and two more players checked the turn. Now, you don't know where you are. UTG+1 probably won't lead the turn if you bet the flop. Now, if you get raised, you can be done. You may even get a free showdown.As played I probably call down. You get to the showdown for the same price that you would pay to fold the turn to a 3-bet, if you raise. Or, you might lose a bet if he folds to your turn raise where he may call the river. Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Looks good to me. I think a c-bet there is probably slightly -ev. Link to post Share on other sites
Moneyball16 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Wow just the possibility of of getting a free card with those backdoor draws and the gutshot make the c-bet good to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Wow just the possibility of of getting a free card with those backdoor draws and the gutshot make the c-bet good to me.Ya, I c-bet this flop, call one raise. Check down turn unless I'm HU, then I fire again, and take a free river. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Wow just the possibility of of getting a free card with those backdoor draws and the gutshot make the c-bet good to me.it's not free.You mean "Take a chance that putting out a SB now will save you a BB on the turn. Hope no one is setting you up for a c/r and hope no one leads the turn, anyway"And if two fold, do you take the free card?The questions are:Do we increase our chances to win?Do we want calls or folds or either/neither when we bet?(got more, not saying it correctly now) Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 We have 4 nut outs, 3 over outs, and an out for the BDFD, so we almost have equity for a bet in a 4 way pot, if we are behind one pair. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 so it's a value bet?I'd say we have 1.5 Ace outs.Maybe: 7 outs total. Very thin..if all call and no raise and we see free river Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 so it's a value bet?I'd say we have 1.5 Ace outs.Maybe: 7 outs total. Very thin..if all call and no raise and we see free riverWe'll probably be able to win extra bets though when we hit, won't we? Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 We'll probably be able to win extra bets though when we hit, won't we?which is a reason to check flop, not bet it. Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Wow just the possibility of of getting a free card with those backdoor draws and the gutshot make the c-bet good to me.You just got a free card take it. Five players to that flop. We never have the best hand. We are getting check raised a fair deal. What specifically are we hoping to accomplish with a bet? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 What specifically are we hoping to accomplish with a bet?Free river, fold better hands, clean up outs. I already went over this. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Free river, fold better hands, clean up outs. I already went over this.yeah, it didn't sell.You're not getting a free card when you pay AT LEAST 1 SB now, that you don't have to. (c/r anyone?)You may still get donked on turnWhat Outs are you cleaning up?oh..and fold better hands? ok, mid pairs - but it's no good to be the 2nd-3rd best hand at showdown.Check >>> Bet Link to post Share on other sites
DrZebra 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 Full Tilt 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Bet The Pot)Preflop: Hero is MP3 with [Ad], [Jd]. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.Flop: (8 SB) [Ks], [8d], [Th] (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.Turn: (4 BB) [Js] (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds.River: (6 BB) [Kd] (3 players)UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 8 BBgood? I think I c-bet too much on boards where it's very probable someone hit when there's more than 1 or 2 people in the handif this was HU or 3 handed I'd bet the flophaven't read replies:you cannot check that flop.whole hand plays differently... Link to post Share on other sites
RISEorFall 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Author Share Posted April 27, 2007 you cannot check that flop. cannot and should not are differenti can, and i didany reason to why i shouldn't? Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 haven't read replies:you cannot check that flop.whole hand plays differently...reading is g00tI think I play just like OP did. Possible argument for raising Turn. Link to post Share on other sites
DrZebra 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 Possible argument for raising Turn.None.Bet the flop. If you are raised, call and c/f an unimproved turn.If you are not raised, free river. Link to post Share on other sites
RISEorFall 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Author Share Posted April 27, 2007 None.Bet the flop. If you are raised, call and c/f an unimproved turn.If you are not raised, free river.oook, say i bet the flop, get c/r and callI hit my J on turn and get bet into now what? Link to post Share on other sites
DrZebra 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 oook, say i bet the flop, get c/r and callI hit my J on turn and get bet into now what?You may have gained two outs. I can see arguments for a raise/fold or a fold. Calling is bad. Link to post Share on other sites
RISEorFall 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Author Share Posted April 27, 2007 You may have gained two outs. I can see arguments for a raise/fold or a fold. Calling is bad.why am I automatically behind? does QJ never c/r this flop? or AT?can you tell me why youre making these statements as to i have to bet the flop and calling the turn is bad? Link to post Share on other sites
DrZebra 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 why am I automatically behind? does QJ never c/r this flop? or AT?can you tell me why youre making these statements as to i have to bet the flop and calling the turn is bad?Because you've checked the flop, you've failed to define your hand to any degree, so when the jack hits the turn you pretty much have to call, not knowing where you are. If you are c/r and call, I don't see how you're ahead of a bet on the turn unimproved (J on the turn is hardly improved.)The more I think about it did anyone consider betting the flop with the intention of 3-betting a raise practically guaranteeing a free river? Link to post Share on other sites
RISEorFall 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Author Share Posted April 27, 2007 Because you've checked the flop, you've failed to define your hand to any degree, so when the jack hits the turn you pretty much have to call, not knowing where you are. If you are c/r and call, I don't see how you're ahead of a bet on the turn unimproved (J on the turn is hardly improved.)The more I think about it did anyone consider betting the flop with the intention of 3-betting a raise practically guaranteeing a free river?the J improves my hand a lot, actually. if they had QJ, I'm still ahead and they now have a pair they might c/c the river withif they had something like AT, I'm now aheadif they had T8 I now have 8 outs instead of 4. as Actuary pointed out (and this is why you should go back and actually read the threads after you posted) by bet/3-betting this flop, were not getting a free river. we just put in an extra 3 small bets, and 3small bets > 1 big bet. checking the flop >>>>>>>>>>>> bet/3-betting the flopAINEC Link to post Share on other sites
DrZebra 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 the J improves my hand a lot, actually. if they had QJ, I'm still ahead and they now have a pair they might c/c the river withif they had something like AT, I'm now aheadif they had T8 I now have 8 outs instead of 4. as Actuary pointed out (and this is why you should go back and actually read the threads after you posted) by bet/3-betting this flop, were not getting a free river. we just put in an extra 3 small bets, and 3small bets > 1 big bet. checking the flop >>>>>>>>>>>> bet/3-betting the flopAINECif we check the flop and call the turn, we have to call the river.if we b/r the flop and check the turn, we can safely fold on the river.3 sb's < 2 bb's Link to post Share on other sites
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