goose 0 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Hey All, I'm putting together an article for the World Poker Tour Magazine (the online version can be found at worldpokertour.com/magazine) looking at online poker training schools, most notably PokerXFactor and Cardrunners. I’m looking for a bit of feedback on peoples' experiences with the sites, what they learned (or didn't learn), how it improved their game, what they’d like to see improved, what each site does best, that sort of thing. I'd especially appreciate hearing from a couple of pro/semi-pro players who are or were (paying, non-instructor) members of either site, or players who believe what they learned directly contributed to them taking down a major tournament (Sunday Million etc.). If you have something you’d like to share, please post it in this thread, or feel free to pm me directly. Thanks!Nate Link to post Share on other sites
hblask 1 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I found the quality of the cardrunners videos too poor to be watchable. They had sound and video problems in every one that I watched, and tried to do 2 or more tables at that low quality, making them impossible to follow. I guess that's why they are the low-priced option. Link to post Share on other sites
astros11ss 0 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 cardrunners is fantastic. absolutely the best site for the money, the pros are insanely talented (and imo heads and shoulders above the pxf pros), improved my game a ton. around september of 2006 despite having solid results i had never outright won a mtt... i signed up for CR, watched two green plastic videos, and playing a more aggressive style won my first mtt the next day... and my second mtt the day after that. no joke, pretty sure i chronicled this in my blog right after it happened.the one thing pxf has going for it is their hand replayer, which is outstanding. Link to post Share on other sites
BoxingCritic 1 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I've been a member of CardRunners for about 4months and i love it. It has added to my game considerably.What i've learnedTEXTURE(although i already had the concept of texture CardRunners truly opened my eyes to the texture of a board. K72, or Q53 vs 79Q or K89When to C bet and when NOT to C bet. Who to C bet and who NOT to C bet depending on the texture of the board.)POSITION(Their consistency on position and pounding it in your head has not only helped my online game but my live game as well. There are many semi strong hands i will no longer play in early or middle position that i used to play. Hands like AJ suited or A10 off etc..depending on the players and depending on a raise or a 3 bet. Which brings me to...)3 BETTING(This has added probably the most intimidating weapon to my arsenal. Although my results have been mixed, i feel it makes me a much harder player to read. Now if i can only control it!)My ExperienceI've learned a lot from CardRunners. The experience of a player narrating his way through a tourney or cash game at the level i play is invaluable to me. Being told WHY they make a certain 3bet or fold has helped my understanding of certain situations i've had to learn the hard way. I've increased my ROI since adding these plays and remembering certain situations THEY were in. Watching a player make the right move and getting the wrong result and KEEPING A CLEAR HEAD ABOUT IT has also rubbed off on me. I definitely do not steam as much and take an unrewarding right play with a much clearer head. These things are always preached but SEEING IT has helped my execution of these "rules" more then anything.Hope that helps.BC Link to post Share on other sites
goose 0 Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Thanks BC, that's exactly the type of thing I'm looking for. Link to post Share on other sites
IAGTTAYM 0 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Cardrunners is an excellent tool to help you speed up the learning curve. I became a member 5 months ago and at about the same time I made my first deposit at PS for $50. Since then, I've turned those $50 into about $5k, winning two $10 tournaments and constantly beating cashgames. Maybe I could have done it without cardrunners, but it would definitely taken a longer time. Link to post Share on other sites
a__thekevlar__2 0 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 i think the only thing pxf really has going for it is i think the site is better laid out, the videos are better quality, and that awesome hand replayer. As far as actually learning poker cardrunners is second to none, and to be honest if cardrunners had a hand replayer even half as good as the one on pxf I'd probably cancel my pxf subscription. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Never seen any pxf videos, but Cardrunners is awesome. The video quality isn't great, but I don't feel its close to unwatchable. Their pros are the best around, talk a lot about their thought processes, and are varied in style. A+ from me.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
MyPlayIsRAB 0 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 What I like about cardrunners is how they analyze so many possible hands and how they could play out. After watching these pros play for hours on end, you learn stuff about your opponents youd never have known before. scary/nonscary flop textures, how to cbet/spot cbets, when to raise/fold with monsters, etc. its definitely helped me make a few sicko calls lately since i started watching green plastics videos. i also think stinger668 is a great instructor too. i dont have any problems with the video quality, although the sound can be a bit low at times Link to post Share on other sites
socalpoker_j 1 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Aside from the excellent instruction, no matter what you are playing, their commentary, analysis, reasoning, and insight cause you to evaluate your own game and firm up on weaknesses and leaks that you may be unaware of or to just take a different approach to the game than you have been. I feel it's always valuable to see how someone else plays the game and there's always a thing or two you can pick up from seeing their thought process in and out of a hand that will be beneficial to your game. With all that being said I feel that Cardrunners is an excellent tool for improving your game from the microlimits--> 10/20 NL and even gain a foundation/refresher course in PLO (w/some excellent videos by Stinger885). Link to post Share on other sites
navybuttons 15 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 course in PLO (w/some excellent videos by Stinger885).some jerk gave him crap about his last PLO video!i actually wrote him after his response, apologized, and tried to reason the differences in our styles. i'm looser IP and WAY tighter OOP (like insanely weak/tight).but it was still bs on my part to say his game has leaks when he obviously is much better than me.but i've watched him at the nosebleed limits on FTP and he still seems a little too willing to 3-bet light OOP IMHO.townsends PLO video was phenominal. Link to post Share on other sites
socalpoker_j 1 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 some jerk gave him crap about his last PLO video!i actually wrote him after his response, apologized, and tried to reason the differences in our styles. i'm looser IP and WAY tighter OOP (like insanely weak/tight).but it was still bs on my part to say his game has leaks when he obviously is much better than me.but i've watched him at the nosebleed limits on FTP and he still seems a little too willing to 3-bet light OOP IMHO.townsends PLO video was phenominal.Yeah, my main point is that the videos cause me to critically examine my game in areas where I may be deficient or less than creative than the styles that they play. Aba's video hops around too much, but is good nonetheless. Link to post Share on other sites
finztotheleft 0 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 On a related note, how expensive are their services ? Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 On a related note, how expensive are their services ?$124.98 to sign up plus $24.99 a month. Link to post Share on other sites
Steamed Rice 0 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 i was a losing playerthen i signed up for cardrunnersnow i am a winning player Link to post Share on other sites
aedread 0 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Soooo, how do we get it for free? Come on its the internet....Ya know ya could. Link to post Share on other sites
Naked_Cowboy 0 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 It would take a pretty weird person to put it up in a "free" format. Why, if you paid money for such valuable information, would you share it with your competition for free? Link to post Share on other sites
Highlow16 0 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Im a member at both sites and ive improved my results tremendously. The best praise I can give is this.... I wish nobody else knew these sites existed. Link to post Share on other sites
stevielarson 0 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Im a member at both sites and ive improved my results tremendously. The best praise I can give is this.... I wish nobody else knew these sites existed.how high do the limits you play need to be for you to justify purchasing both? i was on cardrunners but couldnt justify renewing it this month with school being so crazy. greatest learning resource ever though. Link to post Share on other sites
rogerwilco 0 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I decided to seed this for awhile in case any of you guys want it, but I'll prob stop in a couple of days.Thank you very much. Link to post Share on other sites
sennin 0 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I decided to seed this for awhile in case any of you guys want it, but I'll prob stop in a couple of days.Heh yea I found that a while ago too, it definitely helped Link to post Share on other sites
socalpoker_j 1 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Just pay for the subscription, that money won't be hard to make back. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRichey 1 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Were any of you guys impressed jsup or stinger's mtt videos? I really didn't see or learn anything new, just curious if maybe I'm missing something. Link to post Share on other sites
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