XXEddie 0 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)CO (t78168)Button (t11378)Hero (t6308)BB (t7457)UTG (t33720)UTG+1 (t28308)MP1 (t13775)MP2 (t4265)Preflop: Hero is SB with J , Q . UTG raises to t4800, 5 folds, Hero......?my M is just over 3. I know UTG has a good hand, but it could be TT/JJ were i would be a coinflip or it could be like AK where im only 60/40 and if he does have QQ, JJ, AQ, AJ....im only 2-1.Im in the SB so i have the next 6 hands where all i have to pay is an ante. But am i too short to wait?push or fold? Link to post Share on other sites
blakheart 3 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I say fold. Without FE you are now having to win at showdown. You are at best racing against an underpair, and could easily be in really bad shape here against something like AJ or AQ. Link to post Share on other sites
NEtwowilldo 0 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Clear Fold IMO.You can wait til the next few hands to try and steal some blinds from position if it folds to you. The payouts don't increase til the final table so that's what you should be playing for at this point. Wait a couple hands. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Clear Fold IMO.You can wait til the next few hands to try and steal some blinds from position if it folds to you. The payouts don't increase til the final table so that's what you should be playing for at this point. Wait a couple hands.no....i should be playing to win at all times Link to post Share on other sites
cubbybri 0 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Fold, you need fold equity for this hand. Better to be pushing with a lesser hand than calling in this one. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I'd like to point out villain made a 4x raise here.To me, it screams "don't push back at me, I'm committed"It's up to you whether he's serious or not.I would fold QJ here. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I'd fold QJ here, but some may like to gamble, having such a short stack.Problem is, though, in these situations, I simply move all in if I'm folded to (granted I don't have 23 os..).I'd fold, you got a few hands to work with... has the table been aggressive preflop? or has it been a limpament/minraiseament? Link to post Share on other sites
rog 0 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 no....i should be playing to win at all timesNo. You should be playing to maximize your EV at all times. That often (but not always) means playing to win. I'm sure you know all this. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRichey 1 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I think it depends entirely on your table. If it has been really aggressive, and you haven't been able to get FIV, then I prob push with QJs here. If it's been on the passive side, then I would fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Eight_Tabler 0 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 easy fold... you aren't nearly desperate enough to make this call. And then push ATC the first time there are no limpers/raisers when action gets to you. Link to post Share on other sites
caribstv 0 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I'm sorry but i'm have to disaggree with the majorority and say.. push/call with your M as low as it is compared with the other stacks.. Even if you know you're up against a big Pair QJ suited stands a very good chance of cracking the Big pair.. if you fold here.. You'll be bobbing and weaving either way and you'll leak more chips in the long run.. as they will call you with pretty much anything.at best case.. you hope u have two live cards and against no pairs.. which you'll win approx 40%ish to 45% of the timeand you'll win 20% against a Big pair and 47% against a lower pair... therefore u stand a very good chance of winning the hand Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I'm sorry but i'm have to disaggree with the majorority and say.. push/call with your M as low as it is compared with the other stacks.. Even if you know you're up against a big Pair QJ suited stands a very good chance of cracking the Big pair.. if you fold here.. You'll be bobbing and weaving either way and you'll leak more chips in the long run.. as they will call you with pretty much anything.at best case.. you hope u have two live cards and against no pairs.. which you'll win approx 40%ish to 45% of the timeand you'll win 20% against a Big pair and 47% against a lower pair... therefore u stand a very good chance of winning the hand? How can it possibly be 'very good' when in every scenario you outlined we are an underdog? We're less than 50% to win here except in the most extreme cases.I fold here; we're not desperate enough to call off with queen high yet (which is essentially what we'd be doing with no FE). Link to post Share on other sites
caribstv 0 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I'm sorry I'm not buying that with UTG trying to push the table around granted UTG is supposed to have a decent hand but if u notice the size of the raise. Looks its design to have the mid stacks go away and take it down with out a fight.. If he was trying to make money the raise would have been smaller... Looks like a small to medium pair at best where we'll still be in a decent coin flip...I happen to love my suited connectors..... call me hyper aggressive if u want. but i make much more money with them than any other hand..if we win this hand, We have a decent shot at top three not mere survival.. its only $4.80 not much thinking on taking a chance Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I don't like this because he raised to 4xbb he's weak talk. Terribly huge generalization. We don't know what his opening raise means because we've been told nothing, it could be that he doesn't want a bunch of callers with a small raise, ya know a lot of people believe in 3.5-4xbb raises UTG and UTG+1. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRichey 1 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 FWIW, from my experience the 4x BB raise is AK/AQ a lot of the time, and sometimes TT/JJ. Link to post Share on other sites
caribstv 0 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 FWIW, from my experience the 4x BB raise is AK/AQ a lot of the time, and sometimes TT/JJ.hence the only two hands that worry us is AQ, and JJ Link to post Share on other sites
offset 0 Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I fold and push any two next time it folds around to me. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 easy fold... you aren't nearly desperate enough to make this call. And then push ATC the first time there are no limpers/raisers when action gets to you. I fold and push any two next time it folds around to me.I honestly hate this line more than anything elseI ended up pushing, UTG showed KK, I flopped a flush draw but didnt improve. I still stay by my push but I believe folding is still a good option. I think some of you dont realize how short I really am. If i fold, I am left with 5700-ish. If i do push the next time the BB will have to call 4500 more into a pot of about 3300. Im so short they are calling with any A, any PP, probably K7s+ and Q9s+, and since it is a $4.40 buyin, if they have enough chips, getting call by a low-mid SC wont surprise me at all. That is way too many hands that will call especially if im pushing ATC. Link to post Share on other sites
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