Vtlaxer09 4 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 after months of playing the mtt's and being pretty succesful with the exception of the last couple weeks I have decided to go back to basics and play cash tables.I took everything out of my acct. save 50$ and will play .10/.25 on full tilt until I am at a bankroll of 400. I will then move up to .25/.5. If all goes well I hope to have 1,000$ in my acct. by thanksgiving. I am playing strictly cash, no mtt's whatsoever unless I really decide i want to play one.startingg... now. Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Bet/fold river?PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)Hero ($55.60)Button ($88.65)SB ($27.50)BB ($85.05)UTG ($73.65)MP ($29.60)Preflop: Hero is CO with , . 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, Button calls $1.50, 2 folds.Flop: ($3.75) , , (2 players)Hero bets $2.5, Button calls $2.50.Turn: ($8.75) (2 players)Hero bets $6, Button calls $6.River: ($20.75) (2 players) Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Bet/fold river?PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)Hero ($55.60)Button ($88.65)SB ($27.50)BB ($85.05)UTG ($73.65)MP ($29.60)Preflop: Hero is CO with , . 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, Button calls $1.50, 2 folds.Flop: ($3.75) , , (2 players)Hero bets $2.5, Button calls $2.50.Turn: ($8.75) (2 players)Hero bets $6, Button calls $6.River: ($20.75) (2 players) Personally I check/fold it. Don't know if that's weak or not but a bet has zero value. Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Personally I check/fold it. Don't know if that's weak or not but a bet has zero value.Ya I was tossing up between check/fold and bet/fold. My image on this table was shit so I thought I'd get a call from a naked ace or an overpair. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 c/c better than bet/fold. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 c/c better than bet/fold.Agreed. We're not really getting much value from anything right here, a flush is basically the minimum I see us getting called down by. Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Agreed. We're not really getting much value from anything right here, a flush is basically the minimum I see us getting called down by.Yeah I know, a bet is -EV, I just felt he had an ace and would call expecting me to be bluffing, of course thinking and doing are different, thank god because I think he might of actually raised river if I betRiver: ($20.75) (2 players)Hero checks, Button checks.Final Pot: $20.75Results in white below: Hero has Th 7d (straight, ten high). Button has Ad Jh (two pair, nines and eights). Outcome: Hero wins $20.75. Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I should seriously start mucking KK pre flop.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownUTG ($145.45)MP ($68.55)Hero ($50)SB ($71.35)BB ($50)Preflop: Hero is Button with , . 1 fold, MP raises to $2, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, MP calls $4.Flop: ($12.75) , , (2 players)MP checks, Hero bets $8, MP raises to $62.55, Hero calls $36 (All-In).Turn: ($100.75) (2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($100.75) (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $100.75Results in white below: MP has 2s 2h (full house, twos full of threes). Hero has Ks Kc (two pair, kings and threes). Outcome: MP wins $119.30. Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 the history, Villain timebanked river thinking I hit a straight flushPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)saw flop|saw showdownUTG ($39.85)MP ($55.20)Hero ($55.40)SB ($50.85)BB ($31.80)Preflop: Hero is Button with ,. 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, SB raises to $5.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $4.Flop: ($11.50) , , (2 players)SB bets $8, Hero calls $8.Turn: ($27.50) (2 players)SB checks, Hero checks.River: ($27.50) (2 players)SB bets $14, Hero raises to $41.9, SB calls $23.35 (All-In).Final Pot: $102.20Results in white below: SB has Ad As (flush, ace high). Hero has Ah Kd (flush, king high). Outcome: SB wins $102.20. Hero wins $4.55. The PayoffPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownSB ($49.50)BB ($15.20)UTG ($78.70)Hero ($50.75)Button ($91.65)Preflop: Hero is MP with , . 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.5, 1 fold, SB raises to $5.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $4.Flop: ($11.50) , , (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $7, SB calls $7.Turn: ($25.50) (2 players)SB bets $8, Hero raises to $38.25, SB calls $29 (All-In).River: ($99.50) (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $99.50Results in white below:SB has Ad Qd (two pair, aces and queens). Hero has As 5s (straight, five high). Outcome: Hero wins $100.75. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 i don't know why i play poker.i lose all the big pots i play.it's so dumb. i just get put in situations where i lose my stack, no matter what i do. relentlessly. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I call often in position. I feel that if you do this though, you need to be committed to shoving any big draw, and even gutterballs sometimes. If I flop a pair, I don't fold a lot. Its really high variance, and it takes a good sense of how your opponent views you to do a lot. I won't call with hands like A9o, or KQo, or AQo for the most part. I just call hands I'd be comfortable shoving the flop with. And I'm not super happy with A9o on a Axx flop. but I am happy with 85h on a J73 2 heart flop. I won't call for less than 100bb effective stacks.I don't call 3bets a lot oop unless we're pretty deep and I want to set mine.MarkThis actually helps a lot. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
TB17 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 This actually helps a lot. Thanks.To furthur illustrate Mark's point, CTS mentioned that the hands that Mark listed that were uncallable were "tweener" hands, hands like AQ os and AJos. He mentioned that he was more willing to 4 bet-bluff a hand like A5, because he can fold it, whereas with hands like AQ and KQ you would have a harder time folding. You want to be calling 3 bets with hands that play well on the flop, and hands that are sure to be in good shape when the money is in. However you dont want to be calling/folding a lot, because it just invites people to 3 bet you more and more if they know you're just gonna call and then only play back when you hit humongous. If you're gonna call a lot of 3 bets, you're gonna have to get it in hella light, and it's tough to do at 1/2 because 90% of 1/2 players are 3 betting with legit hands and are gonna call a lot of shoves because they can't let go of overpairs. So if you can be in for some rough nights if you aren't hitting big.Speaking of which, -2k today. I wish I can follow my own advice Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 To furthur illustrate Mark's point, CTS mentioned that the hands that Mark listed that were uncallable were "tweener" hands, hands like AQ os and AJos. He mentioned that he was more willing to 4 bet-bluff a hand like A5, because he can fold it, whereas with hands like AQ and KQ you would have a harder time folding. You want to be calling 3 bets with hands that play well on the flop, and hands that are sure to be in good shape when the money is in. However you dont want to be calling/folding a lot, because it just invites people to 3 bet you more and more if they know you're just gonna call and then only play back when you hit humongous. If you're gonna call a lot of 3 bets, you're gonna have to get it in hella light, and it's tough to do at 1/2 because 90% of 1/2 players are 3 betting with legit hands and are gonna call a lot of shoves because they can't let go of overpairs. So if you can be in for some rough nights if you aren't hitting big.Speaking of which, -2k today. I wish I can follow my own adviceFirst....ugh....sorry bud.I mean, these days I pay much less attention to the numbers than trying to stay away from as many regs as possible when I am table selecting so I don't know if somehow I am doing a horrible job, but I am getting 3 bet like a street whore these days. For me, it really feels more like 2/4 so I can't imagine its not light often.On another part of that, I think it was Townsend who said you shouldn't be 4 betting if you aren't calling a shove (assuming not enormous stacks). I hear so many different things from so many different very good players, hard to know what optimal is. Link to post Share on other sites
TB17 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 First....ugh....sorry bud.I mean, these days I pay much less attention to the numbers than trying to stay away from as many regs as possible when I am table selecting so I don't know if somehow I am doing a horrible job, but I am getting 3 bet like a street whore these days. For me, it really feels more like 2/4 so I can't imagine its not light often.On another part of that, I think it was Townsend who said you shouldn't be 4 betting if you aren't calling a shove (assuming not enormous stacks). I hear so many different things from so many different very good players, hard to know what optimal is.Well I remember when he said that, I assumed it meant 100BB stacks, which is true, you probably shouldn't be 4-bet bluffing when stacks aren't that deep.But even 120-150 BB stacks you can 4-bet bluff profitably I think, mainly because nowadays people are 3 betting with a much wider range. Especially if you are the CO-Button, you are getting 3 bet by all pairs, many aces, suited connectors, etc. The 4 bet bluff can definitely be profitable if you're getting 3 bet a lot. But, I could be completely wrong, I have been a lot these last couple weeks. I'm sure ppl at 2+2 must think I'm a huge spewer. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Well I remember when he said that, I assumed it meant 100BB stacks, which is true, you probably shouldn't be 4-bet bluffing when stacks aren't that deep.But even 120-150 BB stacks you can 4-bet bluff profitably I think, mainly because nowadays people are 3 betting with a much wider range. Especially if you are the CO-Button, you are getting 3 bet by all pairs, many aces, suited connectors, etc. The 4 bet bluff can definitely be profitable if you're getting 3 bet a lot. But, I could be completely wrong, I have been a lot these last couple weeks. I'm sure ppl at 2+2 must think I'm a huge spewer.LOL, of course the 3 times in the past week that I felt someone had been 3 betting me light and the stacks were big enough for me to 4 bet bluff, I get shoved on. Link to post Share on other sites
TB17 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 LOL, of course the 3 times in the past week that I felt someone had been 3 betting me light and the stacks were big enough for me to 4 bet bluff, I get shoved on.lol ya I think I've 4 bet bluffed profitably once in the last like 15k hands, and I used to do it a LOT with deep stacks. Maybe I just ran good during those plays and variance has caught up.EDIT: I noticed you said you avoid regulars like the plague. I try not to, at least with the ones that aren't destroyers. For me, it's easier to play with people that aren't that good but play a lot of volume because of the reads and metagame. There's only about 4-5 guys that I would not sit at the same table with, about 10 at 2-4. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 lol ya I think I've 4 bet bluffed profitably once in the last like 15k hands, and I used to do it a LOT with deep stacks. Maybe I just ran good during those plays and variance has caught up.EDIT: I noticed you said you avoid regulars like the plague. I try not to, at least with the ones that aren't destroyers. For me, it's easier to play with people that aren't that good but play a lot of volume because of the reads and metagame. There's only about 4-5 guys that I would not sit at the same table with, about 10 at 2-4.Okay, I shouldn't say regs because there is one player we talked about that is a regular that I find his tables. I avoid those that post on 2+2 frequently pretty much. Link to post Share on other sites
TB17 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Okay, I shouldn't say regs because there is one player we talked about that is a regular that I find his tables. I avoid those that post on 2+2 frequently pretty much.lol, you search for him? Funny stuff.EDIT: Did you see this? Pretty funny. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...;gonew=1#UNREAD Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 lol, you search for him? Funny stuff.EDIT: Did you see this? Pretty funny. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...;gonew=1#UNREAD LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. I have only looked at the first post and I am already laughing my ass off. Okay, now admit it, I was right about him. Admit it.BTW, that is not the person I was talking about but the person I was talking about is in that caption. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Can someone explain this call to me? Cause I am seeing a ton of it lately and I really don't get it. Final table of 109. Have people starting over-shoving trash in my spot and I just haven't seen it? Seat 1: myohmyAA (72787 in chips) Seat 2: HighStake420 (233285 in chips) Seat 3: oliveiro (171053 in chips) Seat 4: FishList_net (84563 in chips) Seat 5: Afrusnoped (265189 in chips) Seat 6: SKOAL (186448 in chips) Seat 7: mscell (65490 in chips) Seat 8: rdog7811 (52885 in chips) Seat 9: Siebentonner (77300 in chips) myohmyAA: posts the ante 400HighStake420: posts the ante 400oliveiro: posts the ante 400FishList_net: posts the ante 400Afrusnoped: posts the ante 400SKOAL: posts the ante 400mscell: posts the ante 400rdog7811: posts the ante 400Siebentonner: posts the ante 400myohmyAA: posts small blind 2000HighStake420: posts big blind 4000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to rdog7811 [4h 4c]FishList_net said, "gga gl"oliveiro: folds FishList_net: folds Afrusnoped: folds oliveiro said, "gg"HighStake420 said, "tyu2"SKOAL: folds mscell: folds rdog7811: raises 48485 to 52485 and is all-inSiebentonner: folds myohmyAA: folds HighStake420: calls 48485*** FLOP *** [2d Jh 7s]*** TURN *** [2d Jh 7s] [Kc]*** RIVER *** [2d Jh 7s Kc] [Ad]*** SHOW DOWN ***HighStake420: shows [Qh Kh] (a pair of Kings)rdog7811: shows [4h 4c] (a pair of Fours)rdog7811 said, "nice call?"HighStake420 collected 110570 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 110570 | Rake 0 Board [2d Jh 7s Kc Ad] Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Can someone explain this call to me? Cause I am seeing a ton of it lately and I really don't get it. Final table of 109. Have people starting over-shoving trash in my spot and I just haven't seen it?Internuts, dah. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Internuts, dah.I guess mainly I am wondering if it is a leak that I wouldn't call in his spot. Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I guess mainly I am wondering if it is a leak that I wouldn't call in his spot.3 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)3 Members: wolfman50, mln_falcon, GrinderMJI believe I'll let my esteemed colleague answer this one Link to post Share on other sites
yourboygsarida 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 lolim enjoying cash games again which is nice. especially when i can pull gems like this outta my butt. original raiser said he fold ak, surpised these two didnt go to town preflop or on the flop, i was floating b/c original raiser is pretty weak and folds to a lot of cards on the turn, like the magic one that hit :)PokerStars Game #12561402993: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2007/10/11 - 03:46:02 (ET)Table 'Sylvia II' 9-max Seat #9 is the buttonSeat 1: Bubbadogg1 ($10 in chips) Seat 2: polyballer9 ($23.55 in chips) Seat 3: qwertyy66 ($17.35 in chips) Seat 5: xzone ($17.65 in chips) Seat 6: McLucksack ($3.75 in chips) Seat 7: Augepaul ($4.65 in chips) Seat 8: bigshoes411 ($30.40 in chips) Seat 9: hilari0us ($5.75 in chips) Bubbadogg1: posts small blind $0.05polyballer9: posts big blind $0.10*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to polyballer9 [7c 6s]qwertyy66: folds xzone: raises $0.20 to $0.30McLucksack: folds Augepaul: folds bigshoes411: calls $0.30hilari0us: folds Bubbadogg1: folds polyballer9: calls $0.20*** FLOP *** [9h 5d Kc]polyballer9: checks xzone: checks bigshoes411: bets $0.40polyballer9: calls $0.40xzone: calls $0.40*** TURN *** [9h 5d Kc] [8d]polyballer9: checks xzone: checks bigshoes411: bets $0.40polyballer9: raises $1.20 to $1.60xzone: calls $1.60bigshoes411: folds *** RIVER *** [9h 5d Kc 8d] [4h]polyballer9: bets $3.10xzone: raises $3.10 to $6.20polyballer9: raises $14.80 to $21xzone: calls $9.15 and is all-in*** SHOW DOWN ***polyballer9: shows [7c 6s] (a straight, Five to Nine)xzone: mucks hand polyballer9 collected $34.65 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $36.45 | Rake $1.80 Board [9h 5d Kc 8d 4h]Seat 1: Bubbadogg1 (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 2: polyballer9 (big blind) showed [7c 6s] and won ($34.65) with a straight, Five to NineSeat 3: qwertyy66 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: xzone mucked [Kd Kh]Seat 6: McLucksack folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: Augepaul folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: bigshoes411 folded on the TurnSeat 9: hilari0us (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Link to post Share on other sites
socalpoker_j 1 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Was -2800 yesterday, +3200 today. sigh. Link to post Share on other sites
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