Small Ball

[WaLdOrFiAn 0]

Ok, so we all know that DN plays small ball in the tournaments but when you are playing online should you ever play small ball. With the stacks being so short and the levels moving up so fast it would be a no no to play small ball right???

[dna4ever 2]

Ok, so we all know that DN plays small ball in the tournaments but when you are playing online should you ever play small ball. With the stacks being so short and the levels moving up so fast it would be a no no to play small ball right???

its my understanding that small ball is very read dependant; would be much tougher online I would assume and fairly impossible with a standard quick blind raising structure. deepstack tournies would be an interesting discussion. majority of internet players are poor post flop players

[KappaKid83 0]

Playing small ball in online tournaments, with standard blinds and standard starting chips seems like a worthless endeavor to me. My game online is good PF, because it has to be. Now playing Live, both Ring and Tournies, tournies with good structures that is, I like to play LOTS of small ball. I guess online deep stack tournaments have an argument, but really the pots are just bigger earlier for some reason, online donkies I presume.Jeff

[PrtyPSux 0]

I play small ball online, and make it work somehow but all my online poker buddies that destroy the online MTT's always try to convince me to play like them, and JohnnyBax is convinced that I suck...There are only a few online tourney players that make small ball work IMHO, some that come to mind are Bel0wab0ve and Imperium...I think the only key difference between online and Live tourneys, as far as "small ball" style is concerned, is that in Live tourneys you can play like that for most of the tourney, where as online it only works for a few levels and then you have to consistantly switch gears.

[Bizzle 0]

where as online it only works for a few levels and then you have to consistantly switch gears.

I can't think of a single live small-baller that would go 2 rounds without playing a hand, whereas I have seen you do it several times. If anything, I'd prolly classify you as more of an occasional small-baller online.

[dbrent2 0]

You just have to pick your spots online with regular stacks. It can be done, but not like a live tourney. A deepstack tourney, it can be done with success, IMO, which I am sure doesn't mean much...

[WaLdOrFiAn 0]

when i made this post the midnight madness tournament was about to start so i decided to try the small ball play with a fast moving online tournament and so far my results are ok. Its the 2nd break and im sitting with 9223. 78th with 196 to go. I havent really raised that much preflop and ive just been playing my opponents. when the antes kicked in i started playing alot more aggressively tho, but still not as much as i ussually do. I have to get more aggressive now though if i want to have a chance to win it.

[PrtyPSux 0]

I can't think of a single live small-baller that would go 2 rounds without playing a hand, whereas I have seen you do it several times. If anything, I'd prolly classify you as more of an occasional small-baller online.

Like I said, I only play small ball in certain levels cuz thats all you can do online...Bel0w and Imperium pretty much play LAG longball deep in tourneys, raising and reraising a ton, in levels that I think u should just chill out, especially w/ an image like mine or bel0w's.

[TB17 0]

I think smallball is good for the first hour (maybe two) of a standard online freezeout tournament to build up chips, after that it's really tough.

[pocktdeuces 0]

Like I said, I only play small ball in certain levels cuz thats all you can do online...Bel0w and Imperium pretty much play LAG longball deep in tourneys, raising and reraising a ton, in levels that I think u should just chill out, especially w/ an image like mine or bel0w's.

i thought you were gonna start playing more tournies...

[PrtyPSux 0]

i thought you were gonna start playing more tournies...

I have been...I played 3 last week ...I'll probably start the full schedule once I'm done w/ the bahamas though.

[GrinderMJ 0]

I can only think of a few structures where you can reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally small ball for a while. Any of the big cash qualifiers for live events on stars have a superrrrrr slow structure. I think the 300 on Weds. on stars would allow you to play small ball as well as any deepstack (obviously)

[a__thekevlar__2 0]

you can probably small ball in the rebuys too

[PrtyPSux 0]

you can probably small ball in the rebuys too

until a certain level, this tourney is made for small ball type players.

[TB17 0]

until a certain level, this tourney is made for small ball type players.

I'd say from 400/800 to 600/1200, maybe sooner. But I usually stop playing LAG around there.

[pokerkid 0]

Any good resources to read about small ball play?

[MyPlayIsRAB 0]

Any good resources to read about small ball play?

general overview from google...Small Ball:Never get all your money in pre-flop, instead avoid the MIS (move in specialsts) and let them have their hands.AFTER the flop, evaluate the texture and the number of players in, and attack. If the pot starts to get big, then you must be ahead to continue to play. If you can keep the pot small, you can read you opponent(s) and decide what is in your best interest. Small Ball works when a couple of situations exist. The first is that there is no LAG at your table. If there is one, you'll need to pick him off once or twice and slow him down. The second is that you have to be a good post flop player. You have to be willing to see a flop with TT, knowing full well that it might mean mucking the hand if the flop is nasty. And three, you need to make high value river bets when the board shows broken draws. (You can also bluff someone who is chasing you down with AX when the flush card comes on the river. Ax players know the flush draw very well as its their favorite hand. They WILL notice and often muck TP to a big river bet that makes a 3 flush.)It is a scary existance, but there is a funny effect of doing it. You will start to control the table. Not because you are TAKING control, but rather the other players will subconciously start to relinquish control. They will view you as a superior player to themselves as they can't seem to win a big pot against you, only small ones. Small Ball wages a "winter campaign in Russia" against them, wearing them down and destroying their resolve. Frustration sets in and they make major blunders on marginal hands.Small ball only really works when the stacks are deep and the level generous, like at the WSOP. But it is definetly worth putting into your bag of tricks. You can practice this by playing PL instead of NL once in a while and practicing the adjustments that need to be made.

[myenemy 0]

Small Ball wages a "winter campaign in Russia" wearing them down and destroying their resolve. Frustration sets in major blunders

YES, GENERAL!!! HOOAAAH!!!

[DanielNegreanu 141]

First off, you need to learn what it really means to play small ball correctly. There is more to it than just betting less. It is an effective strategy for no limit hold'em and it will work in any format, although if the blinds and antes get too high it becomes much less effective and adjustments need to be made.

[IQCrash 1]

First off, you need to learn what it really means to play small ball correctly. There is more to it than just betting less. It is an effective strategy for no limit hold'em and it will work in any format, although if the blinds and antes get too high it becomes much less effective and adjustments need to be made.

Teach me Obi Won

[Jam-Fly 8]

I decided to start playing small ball in the Sunday Million. It works well because (i) the play is so poor (ii) I didn't multi - table, so was therefore able able to get good reads and (iii) there's some extra chipsI've come up with a theory online, in fields with 300 or less, small ball is less profitable because there is less of a need to build up chips, but in big fields, I do it, because you have to build up chips to go deep and get the real money

[pokerkid 0]

First off, you need to learn what it really means to play small ball correctly. There is more to it than just betting less. It is an effective strategy for no limit hold'em and it will work in any format, although if the blinds and antes get too high it becomes much less effective and adjustments need to be made.

Care to give a more in depth explination? Please?How bout you prty?

[JaxxVain 0]

First off, you need to learn what it really means to play small ball correctly. There is more to it than just betting less. It is an effective strategy for no limit hold'em and it will work in any format, although if the blinds and antes get too high it becomes much less effective and adjustments need to be made.

I having a feeling a response is coming.... wait for it.... "Buy my new book" - DN

[Steamed Rice 0]

I having a feeling a response is coming.... wait for it.... "Buy my new book" - DN

[michael1123 0]

I think I could be put into the category of online small ball players. It's definitely doable, and is my prefered way of playing either online or live, but it is hard to do in most internet tournaments due to the crappy structures and few starting chips.You can definitely do it in deep stacked online tournaments. In my opinion its definitely the best way to play them, given the low quality of players and good structure. Its also easier to do on sites like Full Tilt than on most regular tournaments on Stars, because of better structures and higher antes. Higher antes really help small ball players.And you can definitely get strong enough reads online to be able to play small ball, its really just a question of whether the structure is good enough or not.I completely agree with PrtyPSux though, you definitely have to constantly change back and forth between small ball and a more TAG style of play in non-deep stacked tournaments. Its really frustrating, being a player that would prefer to be able to play a small ball style for the entire tournament, but switching back and forth is typically the best you can do unless you're lucky enough to be able to build a very large stack that can stay ahead of the blinds.