Analysis On Dn's Final Table

[PrtyPSux 0]

good post(s) guys...Before I head back to OT, I'd like to say hello to JC. (hic-cup)

I <3 beans.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Bingo. Dude has pretty much unreal timing, which is why (I know it is being debated in that other Hachem thread) at least right now I'd classify him as clearly being one of the best players in the world. My favorite testament to this is the live updates during the day before they hit the FT of the Circuit event that he took 5th in. He was in the bottom half of the stacks the entire day, never had more than 20 BBs until there were 12 people left, got 2 mentions in terms of large pots he played (both all in preflop with big PPs) and that was entirely it. Whaddya know, he picks up a massive hand with 10 players left, wins it, and is the chipleader going into the final table! He clearly has an innate sense that allows him to place himself in positions where he isn't at risk (like he said, he was only all in and called 1 time in the Bellagio tourney) and has the perfect image to cultivate this. I'm not sure if there is a metric that is fully capable of quantifying all of this, but he clearly has shown the ability to pick spots as well as anyone else I have seen play a significant number of hands.And I'm not super tall (6'0), maybe you were thinking of GrinderMJ? A more apt quote would have been "Then again, trying to get inside Daniel's head for me is like Bizzle swimming in a pool without Speedz giggling at his speedo."

Yeah, I saw the same thing. I don't know if I've seen ANYBODY get his chips in so good over the last Year+. (I think my favorite is still the Kido Pham hand, where he somehow got all his money in before the flop with KK vs. Kido's JTo, and the flop comes down JJx... Oh, Kido!) I was impressed with his play (that I saw, at least) at the ME last year, but I've been blown away since then. His results speak for themselves. If he stays focused, he's going to be a real, real tough tournament player in the years to come. The combination of high-visibility/intimidation factor and his knack for being incredibly patient with his chips should make him a sick fucking force.Yeah, I knew Grinder was a freakishly large recent highschool graduate with a hot girlfriend. But for some reason I thought I'd heard you were like 6'5", too. Time to reevaluate. This is like finding out your dad's not perfect. "Wait, you mean... I'm taller than Bizzle?"Wang

[PrtyPSux 0]

The one hand that still eats at me is the 8327 board...I just cannot see a hand that could be played that way. Do you?

I dont remember how that went down, I get the feeling he floated for a huge bet and then mucked?

[GrinderMJ 0]

Bizzle: speedz found the threadGMJ: lolGMJ: insta gayness

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I dont remember how that went down, I get the feeling he floated for a huge bet and then mucked?

900K, then folded to Hanna's push, I think.

[Bizzle 0]

I dont remember how that went down, I get the feeling he floated for a huge bet and then mucked?

Hanna buttonraised to 300k (blinds 50-100), Hachem called, Negreanu called. Flop 832r, check, Negreanu bets 300k, Hanna makes it 1.2mil, fold, Negreanu calls. Turn is a 7 putting 2 hearts out there, Negreanu checks, Hanna shoves 2.5mil, Negreanu folds. I just cannot figure out a hand that takes this line.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Bizzle: speedz found the threadGMJ: lolGMJ: insta gayness

This is like when that weird clique in my highschool would walk into a party I threw in highschool. "I... I don't know what you're talking about, but you're making me uncomfortable, and I'd really appreciate it if you'd just go back to wherever it is that you come from."I always wanted to be part of that weird clique...

[wrto4556 0]

i missed a lot of the final table last night because i was wondering around talking with people. I did see it get to 3 handed though and daniel was playing well. It was definately his tournament to lose. 9 mil with 3 left and hes the best tourney player there by far. i was sad when i found out he went busto, i really wanted him to win.sounds like i missed all the good stuff...oh well

[PrtyPSux 0]

Yeah, I saw the same thing. I don't know if I've seen ANYBODY get his chips in so good over the last Year+. Wang

I was hanging out with a bunch of great players last night and we ALL agreed that its just sick how he never seems to get it in with the worst hand, I think the one time I remember seeing him get it in bad was during the ME he won. Hachem is a rock plain and simple, I would like to see how he plays in the mid levels of a tourney though, because rock solid players dont FT as much as this guy does unless they're running exceptionally well.The only thing I really disrespect about hachem is his constant bi.tching about him going in w/ the best hand everytime and losing...You won the biggest tourney of 05, stop crying about getting 5 outered or whatever.... if you get it in good every time you're going to get sucked out on eventually.

[PrtyPSux 0]

i missed a lot of the final table last night because i was wondering around talking with people. I did see it get to 3 handed though and daniel was playing well. It was definately his tournament to lose. 9 mil with 3 left and hes the best tourney player there by far. i was sad when i found out he went busto, i really wanted him to win.sounds like i missed all the good stuff...oh well

I saw u on the bleachers and was gonna go say whats up during the break but then I turned around and u were gone.

[wrto4556 0]

I saw u on the bleachers and was gonna go say whats up during the break but then I turned around and u were gone.

Gus Hansen and his friend stole our seats! We had to come back in and say, hey this is CHRIS LAMELL'S seat. get the **** up.

[GrinderMJ 0]

OK, here it goes again...I saw most of the final table and I noticed some things that you can't really just assume if you're talking about certain plays.First of all, that AK call was far from marginal, infact I think it was an instacall considering the circumstances...The player that pushed was BY far the worst player at the table, I actually know him to an extent and I've played with him several times in live tourneys. He was just waiting to make a horrible move and DN like everyone else just wanted a spot where this guy would hand over his chips, this was that spot. DN has a good shot at having the best hand here and if he doesnt, he for sure has quite a bit of outs.I think DN played perfectly till 3 handed, when, imo he steamed off his stack. Hachem and Hanna both played great "final table" poker as well, and stayed under the radar until it got 3 handed, knowing that if they hit a few flops dn would bet into them for sure. That's exactly what happened, hanna pretty much hit every flop and daniel seemed to get more and more frustrated. The key pot 3 handed came when daniel floated the paired board with K9 hoping to take the pot on the turn, basically it was just hooorrible situational luck in this spot and DN ended up spiking what looked to him as Gin, a 2 outer that will double up hanna most of the time. I can see exactly why DN made that play and I dont think its horrible at all (although I do think it wasn't necessary), the turn card just screwed him though. At this point DN seemed a little disturbed and started playing most hands, hanna kept hitting flops and DN kept betting/calling. I have always read what DN writes and listened to what he says in interviews and such, and I feel like we both share very similar theories on tournament poker so I am a big fan of almost never reraising preflop in the early/mid stages and raising min or close to min. however I feel that at the final table, and especially 3 handed, you basically have to play solid preflop poker raising and reraising a lot preflop. Daniel continued to play his small ball style during the final 3 and gave his opponents great odds to peal flops and try to hit, which they did. Daniel had a big enough lead 3 handed to let Hanna take a few pots while he waited to get a solid hand to shove him in preflop, or hit a flop and commit his stack. Trying to outplay hanna at this point, by floating flops and minraising etc.. is a theoretical mistake imo b/c you have enough chips and enough of an edge to protect just wait and bust Hanna or Hachem, even if hachem busts hanna DN is a favorite to win the HU match with 8 or 9 mil in chips. I am not a multi WPT winner though, so what do I know?When DN shoved K10 preflop it was pretty obvious that he had a bad hand because HE HADNT RERAISED PREFLOP. My freinds and I were saying how DN must have a bad hand right when he pushed, Hachem also came to the rail after the hand and told his wife that "the way he's been playing, I knew he didnt have much". Hanna said he folded 10's but I think he was lying or just very money motivated, hachem on the other hand was going to call with any type of a hand, DN definately got unlucky in that race as he lost as he flopped and turned every out in the deck. I doubt that Daniel will say that he messed up 3 handed regardless of how he truly feels, the way the final table played out it really seems that daniel just got outflopped every time because he did. In theory though, I think DN's mistake was not changing gears when the tourney got short handed. I saw Daniel chilling well after he busted and he seemed pretty bummed out, I think he knows he could have played better and won that tourney, and I can only imagine how he felt when he didnt take it down.

I like your analysis JC, this is basically what I echoed when swimmerboy asked me what I thought. So how are you running man?

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I was hanging out with a bunch of great players last night and we ALL agreed that its just sick how he never seems to get it in with the worst hand, I think the one time I remember seeing him get it in bad was during the ME he won. Hachem is a rock plain and simple, I would like to see how he plays in the mid levels of a tourney though, because rock solid players dont FT as much as this guy does unless they're running exceptionally well.The only thing I really disrespect about hachem is his constant bi.tching about him going in w/ the best hand everytime and losing...You won the biggest tourney of 05, stop crying about getting 5 outered or whatever.... if you get it in good every time you're going to get sucked out on eventually.

He's such a good player, I imagine he's more than capable of chipping up against weak players, stealing pots, and gambling when he needs to during the early-mid stages of a tournamentYeah, that's very annoying. During this year's WSOP exit interviews, all he could say was, "Well, 3 final tables, 3 times I got in with the best hand, and 3 times I took a sick beat." Shut up. Just shut up. Nobody will ever feel sorry for you for the rest of your life unless your entire family gets cancer, and you lose an eye. And then get remarried, and she gets hit by a truck on the honeymoon. Then MAYBE.

[speedz99 145]

Bizzle: speedz found the threadGMJ: lolGMJ: insta gayness

If by "insta gayness" you mean "insta in depth analysis of the final table play that will make every rethink the way they look at poker"...you'd be wrong.

I always wanted to be part of that weird clique...

Congrats. I think when I nutted in your left ear you became part of the clique.Anyways, can I just summarize? Once in got down to 3 handed DN went on a fairly cold streak of cards, but the way he played those cards is what ultimately killed him. End transmission.

[Bizzle 0]

I was hanging out with a bunch of great players last night and we ALL agreed that its just sick how he never seems to get it in with the worst hand, I think the one time I remember seeing him get it in bad was during the ME he won. Hachem is a rock plain and simple, I would like to see how he plays in the mid levels of a tourney though, because rock solid players dont FT as much as this guy does unless they're running exceptionally well.The only thing I really disrespect about hachem is his constant bi.tching about him going in w/ the best hand everytime and losing...You won the biggest tourney of 05, stop crying about getting 5 outered or whatever.... if you get it in good every time you're going to get sucked out on eventually.

Ohhhhh JC with his anti-TAG bias :-p. Like I said, the most impressive thing to me is that he was able to hump a shortstack through several hours of the Circuit event without playing big pots that would show up in the Cardplayer updates. If you want to see more about how he does mid-late stages, go through the updates on Cardplayer from the day before the final table at this Bellagio tourney. He even tabled 73o at one point for "old times sake". I'm almost disappointed that they didn't mention you.I agree. But at least he's not Hellmuth. *ducks as Waco throws the remote at my head*

[speedz99 145]

Nobody will ever feel sorry for you for the rest of your life unless your entire family gets cancer, and you lose an eye. And then get remarried, and she gets hit by a truck on the honeymoon. Then MAYBE.

I think it's pretty safe to upgrade that maybe to probably.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I think it's pretty safe to upgrade that maybe to probably.

I'm willing to settle on "There is a non-insignificant chance that..." As a sidenote: is general usually this flush with solid analysis, etc?

[speedz99 145]

I'm willing to settle on "There is a non-insignificant chance that..."

No deal.

As a sidenote: is general usually this flush with solid analysis, etc?

Only when this guy show up.

[chgocubs99 0]

I'm willing to settle on "There is a non-insignificant chance that..." As a sidenote: is general usually this flush with solid analysis, etc?

Does this "point" need to be made every time there is something "solid" posted in general? God damn...Edit: Sorry for being a stereotypical "general" poster by tossing this in here and hijacking the thread, but it just gets annoying every time I'm reading a decent thread like this, keeping my mouth shut because I'm not smart enough to contribute, enjoying the analysis, and then someone jumps in with the "HOLY ****...A DECENT THREAD IN GENERAL, WOAH!!!!!!" comment. Just let the god damn thread unfold, post something if you have something to say, if not, keep your mouth shut, like I probably should have, and you'll see more solid threads appear./rant. Sorry.

[jesus_ 0]

Does this "point" need to be made every time there is something "solid" posted in general? God damn...

Easy there, my son. It does not work like that.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Does this "point" need to be made every time there is something "solid" posted in general? God damn...

No offense, man. I was actually just asking. I almost never come here. I wasn't trying to be condescending or anything. I just followed someone else to visit this specific thread, and found the content very smart-tastic. The question wasn't rhetorical at all; it was sincere.Kisses,Wang

[astros11ss 0]

where's looshious???

[chgocubs99 0]

No offense, man. I was actually just asking. I almost never come here. I wasn't trying to be condescending or anything. I just followed someone else to visit this specific thread, and found the content very smart-tastic. The question wasn't rhetorical at all; it was sincere.Kisses,Wang

No offense taken. Please see my edited rant for details.Sorry.

[Bizzle 0]

keeping my mouth shut because I'm not smart enough to contribute

I've seen you play in several tourneys. You clearly have the skill and knowledge to contribute to this thread.

[KDawgCometh 2]

Congrats. I think when I nutted in your left ear you became part of the clique.

i'm not special enough to be part of your clique. I just want u to nut all over me matt. stop ignoring me:ashamed face: