Jayray 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Ok....I know that this has been kicked around on here a bit many times, I am looking for an article or quote by a pro concerning proper etiquette here. Situation: One player is all in for $500, and two players call.. I tend to feel that if I have a decent hand...TPTK or a solid draw, that whether I have a made hand or not, I benifit from betting and moving other players off of their draws,leaving only the all-in player to showdown with....Anybody have any links or opinions? I always seem to get into this argument in my home game if the situation occurs, and would like to know what other solid players think...Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 there is never any reason to check down a dry side pot when a player is all in (barring a situation wherein you have like 7 high on the flop, no draw). you're looking to accumulate chips, and it's easier to beat one hand than two, even with something like ace high. fire and fire away.edit: royal's right below. there are also times where you want to leave the third guy in and try to get some of his chips on top, but you'll want to do that with less vulnerable hands than one pair, generally. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Ok....I know that this has been kicked around on here a bit many times, I am looking for an article or quote by a pro concerning proper etiquette here. Situation: One player is all in for $500, and two players call.. I tend to feel that if I have a decent hand...TPTK or a solid draw, that whether I have a made hand or not, I benifit from betting and moving other players off of their draws,leaving only the all-in player to showdown with....Anybody have any links or opinions? I always seem to get into this argument in my home game if the situation occurs, and would like to know what other solid players think...Thanksjust do what is best for YOUR situation.,I would try to extract a little added money from the 2nd player.If you have ZERO, and ZERO draws, dry bluffing post flop is a bit silly, especially if its near bubble time, or near pay level increases. etc...If you do have something decent, why not bet. You are most likely ahead of both players, so i would try to extract a little more. Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 It depends on a bunch of other things you didn't examine in the example but in general if you have the best hand you should probably bet. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 If you have a good draw (ie 8 or more outs) that you think will be good, then I'd bet becuase it is easier to beat one player than many.If you have a hand worth protecting that is probably best, then bet. You're under no obligation to check down a hand where you could be winning. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Like everything, it's situational. Here's old DN CP articles about the subject:http://fullcontactpoker.net/daniel/poker-a...amp;ucat=3&http://fullcontactpoker.net/daniel/poker-a...amp;ucat=3& Link to post Share on other sites
SAM_Hard8 50 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 When checking it down will guarantee both players a jump up in money at the end of a tournament then buy all means, unless you have a big hand you check it down.But any other time, no. Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Part of it is that two hands have a better shot at eliminating the short stack, from what little I understand. If you can get rid of a player with a little cooperation (unspoken, of course, as it's really, really bad etiquette to talk about it), do it. As others have said, there is no law, so if you see an opportunity to snag some chips off another guy, go for it. Just be ready to eat some crow when the other guy folds to your bluff and had the other guy beat when your hand blew chunks... Link to post Share on other sites
sholden 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 As has been said it is an "it depends" answer.It all boils down to a simple equity calculation - which is why you should always bring your calculator to the poker table :)It's not uncommon that the equity increase from winning the hand isn't significantly larger than the equity increase from someone else winning it and knocking out a player - near the end anyway. Obviously winning the hand is best, followed by someone not all-in winning it, and worst of all is the all-in player winning it and trippling up.The percentage of the time you win by betting when you wouldn't have otherwise and the percentage of time you win more by having that bet called by a worse hand (or sucking out on them) and the percentage of time you get raised and fold the winning hand all matter of course - best bring a computer not just a calculator to the poker table :)The concept is simple enough - it's just equity. The extreme case of course is the classic satellite tournament where the top-N pay the same prize and there are N+1 players left. The other extreme end is when there are 4000 people left and the top 400 pay... Link to post Share on other sites
AceyDeucy 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Short answer:It is extremely foolish to BLUFF here. Feel free to bet for value or anything else. Just don't bluff. Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Ok....I know that this has been kicked around on here a bit many times, I am looking for an article or quote by a pro concerning proper etiquette here. Situation: One player is all in for $500, and two players call.. I tend to feel that if I have a decent hand...TPTK or a solid draw, that whether I have a made hand or not, I benifit from betting and moving other players off of their draws,leaving only the all-in player to showdown with....Anybody have any links or opinions? I always seem to get into this argument in my home game if the situation occurs, and would like to know what other solid players think...ThanksThere's no problem with checking, but asking another player to check it down, with any player all in, is considered cheating and is grounds for ejection from the tournament. Link to post Share on other sites
Shizzmoney 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 If you do have something decent, why not bet. You are most likely ahead of both players, so i would try to extract a little moreAgreed. The whole point of playing your hand is if you hit it, you want customers.....so you need to bet to make some dough.The only time I don't like betting is when someone semi-bluffs as dry side pot as I saw someone do once during the BUBBLE period. That's just moronic. You are losing customers when you do make your hand.There are times to dry bluff a side pot - but usually when you feel you have a better made hand than the SS all-in. I have been bluffed this way before, and have bluffed dry side pots like this before (usually a pair over pair like 9's vs 10's on a 452 board), but that is for the middle of the tourney. Not in the end, when you "check it down" to move up in money.By betting during a bubble situation, the other players should assume that, yes, you've hit your hand. Link to post Share on other sites
the shank 0 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 just make sure you hold the fork in your right hand or theyll think youre an idiot Link to post Share on other sites
Merby 3 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 If you have a good draw (ie 8 or more outs) that you think will be good, then I'd bet becuase it is easier to beat one player than many.If you have a hand worth protecting that is probably best, then bet. You're under no obligation to check down a hand where you could be winning.I disagree with the bolded statement. If you have a draw which is likely to be the best hand if you hit it and the worst hand otherwise, then the last thing you want to do is try to limit the field here. With the all-in player, you are guarenteed on going to a showdown, therefore you are only winning the hand when you hit it and you are losing when you miss your draw.Why would you want to kill your implied odds by knocking out the only remaining player who can still add money to the pot? Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Checking it down is a matter of strategy and not etiquette. It's also something that a lot of people who think they're good over-apply. There's no reason to check it down with a made hand early in a tournament. There's never a reason to check it down in a cash game etc. You can sometimes take advantage of that and get free draws - particularly live - by looking conspiratorial when you check.I play a home game tourney though with a girl who loves to bluff the river with crap like Q high vs someone plus an all-in player. It can be annoying though I don't think it's ever stopped someone from being eliminated that I've seen. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 This has been discussed in about 10 pages of the following thread:http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=73611Mark Link to post Share on other sites
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