Flush Draw With Lots Of Betting

[No_Neck 0]

Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.25/$0.509 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $18.50UTG+1: $29.10Hero: $41.95MP2: $49.25MP3: $20CO: $57.85Button: $49.75SB: $85.60BB: $31.75Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP1 with :9 :j UTG raises to $1, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, 4 folds, SB calls, BB calls.Flop: :5 :t :a ($4, 4 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $3.5, Hero calls, SB folds, BB raises to $13.5, UTG raises all-in $17.5, Hero ?both are very aggressive players but I have only been at the table for a few minutes.

[kung fu 0]

Pre-flop: I wouldn't have made this call at MP1. You were lucky there were a number of folds there.Flop: UTG has essentially made a pot-sized bet. You are on a flush draw. Fold. The best way to deal with these aggressive types at this level is to play tight PF & flop, but then play with them (re-raise etc) on the turn and river if you have a hand.

[simo_8ball 0]

I agree with preflop and the initial call on the flop. When there's that much action after our flop call I fold.

[DaBruins 0]

I agree with preflop and the initial call on the flop. When there's that much action after our flop call I fold.

I'm not so sure a fold is the right move. We're gettin better than 2.5-1.

[nomad_monad 0]

I'm not so sure a fold is the right move. We're gettin better than 2.5-1.

Not after the BB pushes, which he almost certainly will if we just call UTG's push. Then we get a little less than 2-1, which I don't think is enough here. BB c/ring into a bettor and a caller says 2 pair, set, or a good draw like KdQd to me. Stacking off here with these odds might be ok if both of these guys are in there with top pair or less, but it seems kind of doubtful. Best case scenario that even approaches 2-1 is if one guy has two pair and the other holding top pair, and neither of them holds a higher diamond. If one of them does, your total pot equity will be less than the 2-1 you need, for example (pokerstove):Board: 5d Th Ad equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 29.2359 % 29.24% 00.00% { Jd9d }Hand 2: 57.1982 % 56.92% 00.28% { AhTc }Hand 3: 13.5659 % 13.29% 00.28% { AcKd }It's pretty close here, but then figure in you're getting slightly worse odds than you need in one of the best case scenarios, and definitely bad odds if one of them holds a set or higher draw, and I think I can let this one go.

[No_Neck 0]

Not after the BB pushes,

the big blind can only call because it wasn't a raise....

[nomad_monad 0]

the big blind can only call because it wasn't a raise....

sorry used to another site where a push over the bet re-opens the betting even if it doesn't qualify as a minraise.i still dump this. you're getting 2.5-1 immediately, but it's only to see the next card. BB is likely shoving the turn (because he's practically committed) and getting better than 4-1 then, you'll have to call, making everything else in the prior post is still valid.

[leducks2004 0]

way to much action for me - fold

[DeuceSeven 0]

Preflop fold, you just said these guys are aggressive, I would assume that means reraises preflop. You also have a weak hand. If you were on the button, a call isn't horrible since you have the potential to flop a monster with only 2 to act behind you.Flop, just fold, just because the blinds checked doesn't mean they can't reraise. Heads up I would make a pot sized reraise, not with 2 still to act.As played I don't know how you can fold you're getting about 2:1 on you money if BB calls your shove which I think he will since he check raised with you calling the flop bet, so shove and hope bb comes along and you hit yout flush.

[krup24 0]

I will rarely fold this to a min raise pf especially in MP somewhere. This is a hand we want to play in a juiced pot with lots of players. High implied odds here. Unfortunately the fun went out of it on the flop which is a fold.

[psujohn 0]

Easy fold. Quite possible we don't have the best flush draw and BB has a set.I too like calling min-raises PF with suited connectors, small pairs, Axs, etc. Basically any hand that can flop a big draw. Min raises at this level tend to get a lot of callers and few re-raises and give us excellent implied odds if we can hit a big hand.

[No_Neck 0]

alright well I called and the bb called as well. The turn came 10 And BB pushes for his remaining $13.50......can the hero fold this?

[Acid_Knight 2]

The thought of calling off so much money when drawing dead (or close to it) does not appeal to me. It's far too easy to be against a made hand and a larger flush draw. The pot odds aren't overwhelming either. I think this is a clear fold.

alright well I called and the bb called as well. The turn came 10 And BB pushes for his remaining $13.50......can the hero fold this?

At that point, you've already put in so much money. You were drawing to the flush and you made it. With the new pot odds being offered, and knowing that there can't be anymore betting, you have no choice but to call here. You're likely beaten, but it doesn't really matter. You called all of that money on the flop. There are still hands that you can beat. I think it's a crying call now.

[No_Neck 0]

The thought of calling off so much money when drawing dead (or close to it) does not appeal to me. It's far too easy to be against a made hand and a larger flush draw. The pot odds aren't overwhelming either. I think this is a clear fold.At that point, you've already put in so much money. You were drawing to the flush and you made it. With the new pot odds being offered, and knowing that there can't be anymore betting, you have no choice but to call here. You're likely beaten, but it doesn't really matter. You called all of that money on the flop. There are still hands that you can beat. I think it's a crying call now.

I agree with you here, I think the flop was a fold I had just lost a giant pot in another hand and saw a chance to get it all back. I will post the results tonight.

[Peak01 0]

I think you let it go on the flop action. Once you hit your flush though you have to call but I bet your are against a higher flush.

[David_Nicoson 1]

I think the call preflop is a mistake. The action on the flop is a good illustration of why that is.

[simo_8ball 0]

I think the call preflop is a mistake. The action on the flop is a good illustration of why that is.

I think the exact opposite, and for the exact same reason. If we hit a flop we can probably get paid.

[David_Nicoson 1]

I think the exact opposite, and for the exact same reason. If we hit a flop we can probably get paid.

I'd agree if we were playing a pair for a set, but aggressive action is bad for a draw. I don't think a call is way off here. Move me another couple of seats toward the button and I'm in.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I think the exact opposite, and for the exact same reason. If we hit a flop we can probably get paid.

I agree with this. These are the hands that I love to enter raised pots with when I have position on the raiser.That being said, you're not looking to flop one pair. With all of the action, you gotta be willing to laydown the draws on the flop.Preflop is fine, but let it go on the flop.