Does God Work Miricles

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

well alot of you know my father works for the pres. church, and is the CEO of pres. social services NSW.they operate and own many buisness' and charities. one of the main ones is a childrens hospital called allowah hospital for children with severe and multiple disabilities. well a week ago my father was very depressed because allowah was looking to extend and partly rebuild the facilities at the hospital. with little to no gov. funding and little to no donations, the 6 million needed wasnt looking good. allowah needs this money very very much, literally a life or death situation for most of the kids living there. well my father decided to pray, and pray hard! he said to God that he was depressed and needed the money to help the kids.well he got into the office the next day to find no message had been left. he walked into his office and the phones started ringing as soon as he walked in. he picked up and spoke to a lawyer to tell him that his client who wanted to remain anonymous was on their deathbed and was leaving allowah 3 million dollars. the next day he got in and was left a message from another lawyer to let him know that his client was leaving allowah a house worth 1 million odd dollars.then just 10 minutes ago dad walked into my room with a wad of 100's worth 2K that had been left in the letterbox inside a brown envelope inside another brown paper bag.my father was at a terrible point and when he prayed God answered.very inspiring. prayer power does work!we are 4 million dollars closer after about 2 years of table scraps.shamless plug: http://www.pssd.org.au/index.cfm?SID=19

[Canada 0]

So what are you saying?That when your Dad starts praying, God inflicts likley benifactors with terminal illnesses or that he takes away peoples freewill and makes them leave their assets to His chosen ones?

[herokid7 0]

It's great to see God at work! Miracles happen everyday, a lot of times were just too ignorant or stubborn to see them. Like Canada, for instance, he seems to completely ignore the fact that God has blessed your dad with a miracle and says that he took away peoples freewill, even though we don't know why those people did that. Take a look at my post called "Thus saith the Lord" I gave a guy whom I've never met before $100 of my hard earned money because the Lord asked me to. My freewill was never taken away. I did it out of obedience. I could not have obeyed, and do you know what would have happend? Absolutely nothing! But, instead I obeyed and someone's life was changed. The people that gave money out of obedience have changed countless lives. In no way was anybody's freewill taken away. God is awesome.

[WrongWay 0]

Just curious, but if prayer works, why didn't your dad just pray for God to heal the kids? Wouldn't it be much more efficient to just remove the middle man?A better assertion is that religion works. Make people religious, and they'll give you their money.As is, you've made a great case that God doesn't preform miracles(since God doecn't cure disabilities), but some good things can come from religion.

[crowTrobot 2]

so we have:1. children's hospital has a desparate need for money2. someone prays for money3. other people independently donatewhere's the miracle?? on what are you basing your assumption that 2 and 3 are causally related? obviously the donators would have been independently well aware of the hospital's need. how do you know that the donations wouldn't have happened anyway *without* the prayer? to put in another way - since you are claiming there's a metaphysical connection between 2 and 3 when it's entirely possible they happened independently without one, what is your evidence? how do you know you aren't just wildly misinterpreting a simple, quite unremarkable coincidence in timing as a metaphysical occurance because it's WHAT YOU WANT TO BE TRUE whether it is or not?in any case i'm sure all the people that prayed unsuccessfully for money for other good causes, prayed unsuccessfully for healed afflictions, prayed unsuccessfully that their loved ones would survive wars & earthquakes would really appreciate your particular "answered prayer". and i'm sure the survivor parents of those of the 50000+ children that god didn't chose to save in the tsunami would really appreciate that he chose to save 50 (or whatever) in a children's hospital.

[DerekTah 0]

Man, I hate results-oriented prayer stories.So, question if god didn't give him the money would that be proof that prayer doesn't work or that there is no god?

[solderz 0]

Do you think maybe the donors deserve some credit? Or should we just give it all to god? I love people like you. God is responsible for other people's acts of kindness, but not for murderers, child molesters, or natural disasters.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

and i'm sure the survivor parents of those of the 50000+ children that god didn't chose to save in the tsunami would really appreciate that he chose to save 50 (or whatever) in a children's hospital.

I am sure these same survivor parents would be comforted to know that they died for the good of the species, and that nature needed to wipe them out to controll the population to insure enough food for the continuation of the species.

[crowTrobot 2]

I am sure these same survivor parents would be comforted to know that they died for the good of the species, and that nature needed to wipe them out to controll the population to insure enough food for the continuation of the species.

that's even stupider than equating minor coincidences with answered prayer. it had nothing to do with food supply/population control. it was a random disaster that was exacerbated because the population was unknowingly concentrated in unsafe areas. nothing more.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

that's even stupider than equating minor coincidences with answered prayer. it had nothing to do with food supply/population control. it was a random disaster that was exacerbated because the population was unknowingly concentrated in unsafe areas. nothing more.

Why was there a natural disaster in the first place? Why did people die? Why did other people survive?

[WrongWay 0]

Why was there a natural disaster in the first place? Why did people die? Why did other people survive?

The moon revolving around the earth drags the plates of the earth's crust around. Sometimes they stick for a bit, then break loose. Sometimes this happens in the ocean floor, and the kenitic energy released when the plates un-stick is released into the water. If it has a long wave front, then it travels a very long distance, casuing a very high wave with a very long wave length when it finally reaches land. This drowns people that live on the coast where the wave comes ashore.People like to live on the shore due to the various economic oppertunities it offers such as fishing, trade and tourism.Some people were in upper floors of buildings. Some were lucky to be able to grab onto to a tree or other means of not getting washed away and drowned. Some were able to get to higher ground.... Some even read an article in Discover Magazine that came out about 3 months earlier and knew that if the ocean oddly and suddenly receades, then it means there is a tidal wave coming and you need to get to higher ground.....Some people were out in the open, didn't or couldn't grab onto something tall, didn't know what was happening, and got washed away and drowned.

[crowTrobot 2]

Why was there a natural disaster in the first place? Why did people die? Why did other people survive?

you are asking about purpose (i guess). there's no reason to think purpose isn't just a human concept that random natural events could care less about. there doesn't have to be a purpose.

The moon revolving around the earth drags the plates of the earth's crust around.

plate movement is caused by convection currents in the lithosphere. as far as i know tidal effects have nothing to do with it.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

you are asking about purpose (i guess). there's no reason to think purpose isn't just a human concept that random natural events could care less about. there doesn't have to be a purpose.plate movement is caused by convection currents in the lithosphere. as far as i know tidal effects have nothing to do with it.

what make events "natural", what is your definition. 'Natural' must also be a concept created by humans. If there is no purpose in anything, then what is you definition of Random events? Wouldn't all events be Random? If all events are Random, then how are we able to predict things?

[crowTrobot 2]

what make events "natural", what is your definition.

i just used 'natural' to refer to events in nature (not caused by man).

'Natural' must also be a concept created by humans.

i'm pretty sure natural events would exist whether we were here or not. the same cannot be said with certaintly of the concept of purpose or intent, or whatever you were implying was going on with the tsunami.

If all events are Random, then how are we able to predict things?

all events aren't random, at least on a coarse, large scale (although quantum mechanics may indicate that there is true randomness underlying everything that happens). in this case i was just referring to an event as random because we didn't have the capability to predict it, although in principal it certainly would have been predictable with the proper knowledge.now maybe you can explain where you were trying to go with that post - hopefully you're not trying to prove god's presence in nature using philosophy, cuz that would be a big circular-reasoning dead-end waste of time

[Zealous Donkey 0]

i just used 'natural' to refer to events in nature (not caused by man).i'm pretty sure natural events would exist whether we were here or not. the same cannot be said with certaintly of the concept of purpose or intent, or whatever you were implying was going on with the tsunami.all events aren't random, at least on a coarse, large scale (although quantum mechanics may indicate that there is true randomness underlying everything that happens). in this case i was just referring to an event as random because we didn't have the capability to predict it, although in principal it certainly would have been predictable with the proper knowledge.now maybe you can explain where you were trying to go with that post - hopefully you're not trying to prove god's presence in nature using philosophy, cuz that would be a big circular-reasoning dead-end waste of time

No, not trying to prove anything, just curious about " purpose" This isn't the first post I have seen you deny existance ( or at least minmize its importance) of "purpose". Are you saying natural selection has no purpose? Evolution has no purpose?

[crowTrobot 2]

Are you saying natural selection has no purpose? Evolution has no purpose?

yes

[Zealous Donkey 0]

yes

Ok, you agree with Hawking? Life, existence have no meaning or purpose.

[Sluggo 0]

Stop being results-oriented. Just post that your dad prayed. Don't post that God called on the river with two pair.Evolution has no purpose. Natural selection has no purpose. This doesn't mean that they are random.

[crowTrobot 2]

Ok, you agree with Hawking? Life, existence have no meaning or purpose.

no intrinsic meaning or purpose, but we certainly can and do give it both ourselves.

[Flack_attack 0]

Well, our purpose, or rather our function, is to pass on our genes.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Well, our purpose, or rather our function, is to pass on our genes.

Why and for what? What good is it doing to pass on life if it has no meaning or purpose?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

hopefully you're not trying to prove god's presence in nature using philosophy, cuz that would be a big circular-reasoning dead-end waste of time

Using philosophy to prove God, yeah, that's never been done before.

Why and for what? What good is it doing to pass on life if it has no meaning or purpose?

For no purpose. There is no meaning other than the meaning humans give themselves. There is no intrinsic meaning, that is. Think about it. Could you live in a world where there is no intrinsic meaning? Where everything you do will one day be forgotten and all evidence of your existence will one day be gone? Would you want to? Wouldn't it be better to think that there's a God somewhere who watches every action you do and when you die will take you to heaven forever?No wonder people invent religion and become so convinced by it.

[timwakefield 68]

Are you saying natural selection has no purpose? Evolution has no purpose?

This is basic to the idea of Evolution. Does gravity have a purpose? Do the tides have a purpose? No, they just are.

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

thanks for staying on track guys.how do i know that it was Gods doing? faith my friend, and i feel sorry for those of you who do not yet have faith in God, and pray that you one day will.

[BuffDan 0]

thanks for staying on track guys.how do i know that it was Gods doing? faith my friend, and i feel sorry for those of you who do not yet have faith in God, and pray that you one day will.

So if we don't obtain that faith, does that prove that God didn't answer your prayer?That of course is the beauty of prayer; if what we want happens, God answered our prayer, and if it doesn't, well God works in mysterious ways, and what we wanted wasn't in our best interests anyways.