zzz 0 Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 Well I would say the idea of "total freedom" is a bad thing because it sounds like "did you rape children, beat your spouce, massacre people because you like the looks on their face as you killed them, well none of that matters. You can still go to heaven even with no remorse" "Even if you always turn your back on God and want nothing to do with him the promise land is yours". You may rather have someone preach about that, I wouldn't.total freedom as in no matter what you do on earth you can still experience heaven and you can still experience hell just like we experience hell and heaven on earth. An optimist believes that you still have a choice of choosing hell after death, but of course your not gonna wanna choose hell forever. Christians believe after death your done choosing, which is definitely a less optimistic opinion on the after-life. Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 total freedom as in no matter what you do on earth you can still experience heaven and you can still experience hell just like we experience hell and heaven on earth. An optimist believes that you still have a choice of choosing hell after death, but of course your not gonna wanna choose hell forever. Christians believe after death your done choosing, which is definitely a less optimistic opinion on the after-life.I'm sort of confused why one would openly choose hell as anything other than "you know I've lived in heaven for 1000 years and I always sort of wondered what was going on down there".Also I disagree with your classifacation of optimisim. Obviously, choice is a big thing for you, not all of us really care about choice. Your optimism can be someone elses pestimism. For me I am really hoping for answers in the after-life, not choice. Someone else may have something else they are looking forward to.I also hoping that heaven is not the "This is your life" show. Where you die and then its like "hey there grandma, and my puppy, and my dad, etc". Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Again, you can't prove the scriptures are God's instructions. Your OPINION is that total freedom is highly unlikely. Why not have a more happy OPINION? Tell that to God at the judgement. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 Tell that to God at the judgement. Good luck.[/quoI believe in a God that doesn't judge. I am an optimist... Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 I believe in a God that doesn't judge. I am an optimist...so you believe you should be able to do whatever u want and then when u die get to go to heaven...keep dreaming...this world is flawed and that definately wont work here..why shoudl it work anywhere elseur optimism is the equivalent of me saying im gonna wake up and find a million dollars in my bed Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 1) Why are you insulting the beliefs of others?2) What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus go to heaven? Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 1) Why are you insulting the beliefs of others?2) What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus go to heaven?are you serious? seriously...do u ride the short bus to school? Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 1) Why are you insulting other people?2) What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus go to heaven? Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 zzz, I'm not clear on why believe God doesn't judge makes you an optimist or why saying there is no choice is pestimistic.I do believe that you are judged, but that neither optimistic or pestimistic, that just my belief. Why does choice or not being judged = optimism? Its just two different beliefs.I mean lets say there is someone who trully got the choice. That person says "after living my life I want to go into heaven, but I know I deserve hell so I will go there", you would say that optomistic because the person choose?Perhaps if you explained why God should not judge us in any way could I agree, but I warn you as a christian that idea sort of goes against my religion. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Author Share Posted September 10, 2006 zzz, I'm not clear on why believe God doesn't judge makes you an optimist or why saying there is no choice is pestimistic.I do believe that you are judged, but that neither optimistic or pestimistic, that just my belief. Why does choice or not being judged = optimism? Its just two different beliefs.I mean lets say there is someone who trully got the choice. That person says "after living my life I want to go into heaven, but I know I deserve hell so I will go there", you would say that optomistic because the person choose?Perhaps if you explained why God should not judge us in any way could I agree, but I warn you as a christian that idea sort of goes against my religion.If your idea of being judged trully makes you happy, i guess you can turn it around and say that it is an optimistic/happy/positive viewpoint. I just don't buy it. Bottom line is that the most optimistic/happy/positive opinion on the afterlife is the idea of total freedom. For example, going where your thoughts take you. If you wish to hurt people you go into a hellish realm. If your in that realm and you change your thoughts and want to help people, you go into a heavenly realm. Thats what i mean by total freedom. You would go where your thoughts take you and you can change your thoughts at anytime, just like on earth. People experience hell and heaven on earth all the time. Why would the afterlife be any different?As for why doesn't God judge. Well, according to your Bible, he shouldn't. The Bible states that God is love. It also says love is patient and kind. It also says that love "doesn't notice when others do it wrong". That means by practicing love you are practicing non-judgement. If after you died God said, "times up!" and sent you to hell for your choices on earth, that would go against the definition of love in the Bible. Saying you ran out of time doesn't sound very patient to me. I guess that would leave room for a religion to create a MORE LOVING God. One that is more patient. Sorry this was so long. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 If your idea of being judged trully makes you happy, i guess you can turn it around and say that it is an optimistic/happy/positive viewpoint. I just don't buy it. Bottom line is that the most optimistic/happy/positive opinion on the afterlife is the idea of total freedom. For example, going where your thoughts take you. If you wish to hurt people you go into a hellish realm. If your in that realm and you change your thoughts and want to help people, you go into a heavenly realm. Thats what i mean by total freedom. You would go where your thoughts take you and you can change your thoughts at anytime, just like on earth. People experience hell and heaven on earth all the time. Why would the afterlife be any different?As for why doesn't God judge. Well, according to your Bible, he shouldn't. The Bible states that God is love. It also says love is patient and kind. It also says that love "doesn't notice when others do it wrong". That means by practicing love you are practicing non-judgement. If after you died God said, "times up!" and sent you to hell for your choices on earth, that would go against the definition of love in the Bible. Saying you ran out of time doesn't sound very patient to me. I guess that would leave room for a religion to create a MORE LOVING God. One that is more patient. Sorry this was so long. You have your whole life to serve him, unless you don't serve him, and then the only guarantee is that there is none- you're in Satans realm, baby. God loves the world, yes- however, you still have to serve/obey/follow the rules. That's just the way it is. I love how your argument is that God is not nice enough. How are you planning on presenting that on Judgement Day? Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 If your idea of being judged trully makes you happy, i guess you can turn it around and say that it is an optimistic/happy/positive viewpoint. I just don't buy it. Bottom line is that the most optimistic/happy/positive opinion on the afterlife is the idea of total freedom. For example, going where your thoughts take you. If you wish to hurt people you go into a hellish realm. If your in that realm and you change your thoughts and want to help people, you go into a heavenly realm. Thats what i mean by total freedom. You would go where your thoughts take you and you can change your thoughts at anytime, just like on earth. People experience hell and heaven on earth all the time. Why would the afterlife be any different?As for why doesn't God judge. Well, according to your Bible, he shouldn't. The Bible states that God is love. It also says love is patient and kind. It also says that love "doesn't notice when others do it wrong". That means by practicing love you are practicing non-judgement. If after you died God said, "times up!" and sent you to hell for your choices on earth, that would go against the definition of love in the Bible. Saying you ran out of time doesn't sound very patient to me. I guess that would leave room for a religion to create a MORE LOVING God. One that is more patient. Sorry this was so long.See, now your seting yourself up a bit. Why should you one to the hellish region just because you want to hurt someone, maybe the people who you want to hurt, hurt you in the past, would it be justified? What if I want to hurt someone, but its more of a subconcious thought then a true motivation of hurt? What if its something you want to do but you really have no intention of carring out? Also, why is it ok to judge now, but not before.Actually I myself question the idea that times up when you die, I do question the idea that what if in hell you also have the same chances you get here. Of course its easy to speculate on what may be. In the end there will only be what is and what is not. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 1) Why are you insulting other people?2) What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus go to heaven?apparently its difficult for you so i will ask againdo you ride the short bus to school Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 1) Why are you insulting other people?2) What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus go to heaven? do you ride the short bus to schoola) No. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Author Share Posted September 10, 2006 See, now your seting yourself up a bit. Why should you one to the hellish region just because you want to hurt someone, maybe the people who you want to hurt, hurt you in the past, would it be justified? What if I want to hurt someone, but its more of a subconcious thought then a true motivation of hurt? What if its something you want to do but you really have no intention of carring out? Also, why is it ok to judge now, but not before.Actually I myself question the idea that times up when you die, I do question the idea that what if in hell you also have the same chances you get here. Of course its easy to speculate on what may be. In the end there will only be what is and what is not.I think you're missing my point. Since you have no proof that a freedom restricting God exists, it is merely an opinion. I believe in a more optimistic view of having total freedom after death. I have no proof, but believing that makes me happier than believing in a judging God who doesn't give me a choice to experience heaven AND hell AND everything inbetween. The more freedom you have the happier you will be.You have your whole life to serve him, unless you don't serve him, and then the only guarantee is that there is none- you're in Satans realm, baby. God loves the world, yes- however, you still have to serve/obey/follow the rules. That's just the way it is. I love how your argument is that God is not nice enough. How are you planning on presenting that on Judgement Day? No, that is not the truth. That is your OPINION. I choose to have an OPINION that if God does exist he will NEVER run out of patience. Your OPINION happens to be more negative than mine.You don't KNOW judgement day exists. You BELIEVE that it does. Big difference. Unless you can enlighten me and show me proof that your hateful God exists. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 1) Why are you insulting other people?2) What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus go to heaven?a) No.I promise you its alright to admit u do...nobody will laugh to hard at u Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 I promise you its alright to admit u do...nobody will laugh to hard at ushouldn't you be at church? Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Mattnxtc,1) Why are you insulting other people?2) What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus go to heaven? Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Mattnxtc,1) Why are you insulting other people?2) What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus go to heaven?the fact that you really have to ask question 2 is why i wont answer it...please open a bible and read it and then come ask questions Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Mattnxtc,1) Why are you insulting other people?2) What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus at the moment they die go to heaven? Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Mattnxtc,1) Why are you insulting other people?2) What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus at the moment they die go to heaven?1. i dont insult anybody. you make a fool of urself every time u post in here 2. b/c u have lied about reading the bible i wont answer this..when u have read it come back and we can talk Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo 0 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 1. i dont insult anybody. you make a fool of urself every time u post in here 2. b/c u have lied about reading the bible i wont answer this..when u have read it come back and we can talk1) You are lying. You have insulted people on many occasions. Just on this page I found...you make a fool of urself u have lied do you ride the short bus to school2) I have not lied about reading the Bible. I read it cover to cover.What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus at the moment they die go to heaven? Only the Bible? Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 1) You are lying. You have insulted people on many occasions. Just on this page I found...2) I have not lied about reading the Bible. I read it cover to cover.What evidence do you have to support your belief that only people who believe in Jesus at the moment they die go to heaven? Only the Bible?i have not insulted "people" I have called u out for ur stupid questionsif u had halfway read the bible...heck just the NT then u wouldnt be askign the question you are asking...so until u actually put some time in to reading the bible dont look for answers to ur simple questions...heck i think all the agnostics on this board could answer the question Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo 0 Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 2) I have read the Bible. I understand what it says. However, the Bible doesn't have a bibliography. I am unfamiliar with many of its sources. I don't know what's fact and what's story. In fact, there are many Christian sects that disagree on the entry requirements. What evidence do you have to show the Bible says that if you believe in Jesus (and only if you believe in Jesus) you will go to heaven? Please provide evidence. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 2) I have read the Bible. I understand what it says. However, the Bible doesn't have a bibliography. I am unfamiliar with many of its sources. I don't know what's fact and what's story. In fact, there are many Christian sects that disagree on the entry requirements. What evidence do you have to show the Bible says that if you believe in Jesus (and only if you believe in Jesus) you will go to heaven? Please provide evidence.you really need to stop using wikipedia to get all ur "facts"and there are no christian sects that disagree with the bible...there are groups that claim christinaity but arent...to bad for u Link to post Share on other sites
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