Optimism Vs. Christianity

[Loismustdie 0]

"Anger dwells only in the bosom of fools.” - Albert Einstein

"ZZZ is a massive Tool."- Loismustdie

[Sluggo 0]

"I don't believe in dinosaurs." - Loismustdie

[Loismustdie 0]

"I don't believe in dinosaurs." - Loismustdie

Touche.

[Mattnxtc 0]

if u have done extensive reading of the bible you would know but check out Acts and see just how they treated people who were disobedient

[DerekTah 0]

For Christians, anger is one of the seven deadly sins. Since Jesus got angry, he was not perfect.

Sorry the seven deadly sins are: pride, greed, lust, envy, gulltony, wrath, and sloth.Assuming you are talking about wrath these are the definitions:–noun 1. strong, stern, or fierce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire. 2. vengeance or punishment as the consequence of anger. –adjective 3. Archaic. wroth. So while wrath does come from anger, anger in itself is not wrath.

[zzz 0]

Sorry the seven deadly sins are: pride, greed, lust, envy, gulltony, wrath, and sloth.Assuming you are talking about wrath these are the definitions:–noun 1. strong, stern, or fierce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire. 2. vengeance or punishment as the consequence of anger. –adjective 3. Archaic. wroth. So while wrath does come from anger, anger in itself is not wrath.

The level of anger displayed in the temple by Jesus could be interpreted as strong. Therefore, Jesus sinned. So no, he wasn't sinless. I think Christians believe murder is a sin too, right? Yet your God is a baby killer (Noah's Ark for example). Something doesn't add up...

[Sluggo 0]

The greek word for wrath in the seven deadly sins is "ira," which I believe is also the root for ire.Wrath, in the context of the seven deadly sins, uses the first of those three definitions.

[ShakeZuma 585]

Jesus also did it with a prostitute.Thats what Tom Hanks told me.

[DerekTah 0]

The level of anger displayed in the temple by Jesus could be interpreted as strong. Therefore, Jesus sinned. So no, he wasn't sinless. I think Christians believe murder is a sin too, right? Yet your God is a baby killer (Noah's Ark for example). Something doesn't add up...

Actually we don't know that, the people who lived with Noah were sinful but we don't know what exact sin. For all we know they were taking all babies and killing them. The only thing we know is that the sin was not alcoholism, as seem by Noah after the flooding ends.Edit to add: I should point out, I really personally don't know if Jesus is perfect (does he describe himself as perfect), but its defently the closest thing to being it.

[crowTrobot 2]

Actually we don't know that, the people who lived with Noah were sinful but we don't know what exact sin. For all we know they were taking all babies and killing them. The only thing we know is that the sin was not alcoholism, as seem by Noah after the flooding ends.

have fun trying to find wild pointless justifications like that for all of god's cruelty in the entire OT.

[Mattnxtc 0]

have fun trying to find wild pointless justifications like that for all of god's cruelty in the entire OT.

Actually the NT is much darker than the OT. If you have actually read the story of the flood then you see what the world was like. Same with Sodom and Gomorrah...You have people who are knowingly going agianst God. Knowingly doing unmentionable sinning and you think that they were innocent? People should be glad that Jesus did come b/c now instead of a flood or a disaster you actually have a shot to repent

[DerekTah 0]

Ok, seriously speaking, the god of OT is a very just god.And that in the end means cruelty, for what is justice for one become cruel for the other.The Jews are finally freed of slavery and all of Egypt are basicly punished for every year of its existance.A priest is threatened by children and God sends bears to kill them to make a point.The question is do you trust God or not. I'm not going to argue about it Crow, you don't (at least not the God of OT anyway), I do. I fine at leaving it at that.Also ZZZ, we christian do believe that "we go by the grace of God", so we understand (or at least try to) that our right to life can be revoked at anytime by God.Give me a day, there a quote by Lincon that basicly talks about God's justice that he made during the civil war that basicly sums up my view on it (Lincon is defently a better talker than me)

[Mattnxtc 0]

I also want to add something about the attempts people make to try to say that Jesus sinned in anger. Lets look at the actual passage: Marks Version: Mark11:15 Then they *came to Jerusalem. And He entered the temple and began to drive out those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves; Mark 11:16 and He would not permit anyone to carry merchandise through the temple. Mark 11:17 And He began to teach and say to them, "Is it not written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL THE NATIONS'? But you have made it a ROBBERS' DEN." Matthews Version: Mathew 21:12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. Matthew 21:13 And He *said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."Lukes version:Luke 19:45 Jesus entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling, Luke 19:46 saying to them, "It is written, 'AND MY HOUSE SHALL BE A HOUSE OF PRAYER,' but you have made it a ROBBERS' DEN." Johns version: John 2:14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. John 2:15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; John 2:16 and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Father's house a place of business." So this is the verse where "anger" was supposed to exist....yet as we read it we do not see it do we? What we see is a very righteous act by Jesus as he cleared out the temple and cleansed it

[DerekTah 0]

This is a speech Lincon gave at his second inaugural (source: book "Lies My Teacher Told Me"). In which he talks about why the civil war must continue."If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through his appointed time, he now wills to remove, and that he gives to both North and South this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to him?"Fondly do we hope -- fevently do we pray -- that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said, 'The judgements of the Lord are true and righteous altogether'".Lincon basicly called the civil war god's rightous punishment for slavery. In the end you either agree with that last sentence of Lincon's or you don't. I do believe that the judgements of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.

[zzz 0]

I also want to add something about the attempts people make to try to say that Jesus sinned in anger. Lets look at the actual passage: Marks Version: Mark11:15 Then they *came to Jerusalem. And He entered the temple and began to drive out those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves; Mark 11:16 and He would not permit anyone to carry merchandise through the temple. Mark 11:17 And He began to teach and say to them, "Is it not written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL THE NATIONS'? But you have made it a ROBBERS' DEN." Matthews Version: Mathew 21:12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. Matthew 21:13 And He *said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."Lukes version:Luke 19:45 Jesus entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling, Luke 19:46 saying to them, "It is written, 'AND MY HOUSE SHALL BE A HOUSE OF PRAYER,' but you have made it a ROBBERS' DEN." Johns version: John 2:14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. John 2:15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; John 2:16 and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Father's house a place of business." So this is the verse where "anger" was supposed to exist....yet as we read it we do not see it do we? What we see is a very righteous act by Jesus as he cleared out the temple and cleansed it

How do you think he drove them out? He became a crazed lunatic full of ire overturning tables and screaming at the top of his lungs.

Actually the NT is much darker than the OT. If you have actually read the story of the flood then you see what the world was like. Same with Sodom and Gomorrah...You have people who are knowingly going agianst God. Knowingly doing unmentionable sinning and you think that they were innocent? People should be glad that Jesus did come b/c now instead of a flood or a disaster you actually have a shot to repent

God drowned innocent babies. Sounds more like satan than God to me.Why do you worship a baby killer?

[DerekTah 0]

God drowned innocent babies. Sounds more like satan than God to me.Why do you worship a baby killer?

You know coming from someone who believe the humans have the right to do anything and not be judged for their actions on earth, I find the question a bit weird.I also think its weird that if god judges us then god is wrong, but you have no problem judging god. Why do you have the right of judgement when god does not?

[zzz 0]

You know coming from someone who believe the humans have the right to do anything and not be judged for their actions on earth, I find the question a bit weird.I also think its weird that if god judges us then god is wrong, but you have no problem judging god. Why do you have the right of judgement when god does not?

I believe I am in control of my own destiny after death (just like on Earth) and that control is never compromised. Correct me if im wrong but Christians BELIEVE that after death there are 2 choices that God decides upon: happy forever in heaven or miserable forever in hell. Nothing wrong in believing that, but the fact is it is a less optimistic belief/opinion because it greatly resticts your freedom.

[DerekTah 0]

I believe I am in control of my own destiny after death (just like on Earth) and that control is never compromised. Correct me if im wrong but Christians BELIEVE that after death there are 2 choices that God decides upon: happy forever in heaven or miserable forever in hell. Nothing wrong in believing that, but MY OPINION is it is a less optimistic belief/opinion because it greatly resticts your freedom.

there fixed it for you.Oh you forgot about purgatory (granted not all Christians believe it, but that leaves 3 choices that God decides upon)

[Mattnxtc 0]

I believe I am in control of my own destiny after death (just like on Earth) and that control is never compromised. Correct me if im wrong but Christians BELIEVE that after death there are 2 choices that God decides upon: happy forever in heaven or miserable forever in hell. Nothing wrong in believing that, but the fact is it is a less optimistic belief/opinion because it greatly resticts your freedom.

even an atheist doesnt believe he can control his own destiny...the funny part about u is the reality you are "optimistic about doesnt exist

[zzz 0]

there fixed it for you.Oh you forgot about purgatory (granted not all Christians believe it, but that leaves 3 choices that God decides upon)

The fact is that nobody knows what happens after death. Believing you completely run out of choices when you die is in fact a pessimistic opinion. Unless of course you don't like having choices.

[Mattnxtc 0]

The fact is that nobody knows what happens after death. Believing you completely run out of choices when you die is in fact a pessimistic opinion. Unless of course you don't like having choices.

whats ironic is that you dont give urself a choice at all...an atheist believes when you die thats it..that there isnt anything else. So what choice do u have?

[zzz 0]

even an atheist doesnt believe he can control his own destiny...the funny part about u is the reality you are "optimistic about doesnt exist

The reality you are pessimistic about doesn't exist. That is just my opinion though. Why do you worship a baby killer?

whats ironic is that you dont give urself a choice at all...an atheist believes when you die thats it..that there isnt anything else. So what choice do u have?

I never said i was an atheist. I believe that when I die I have choices. For example, I can choose a hellish realm to be in for a while, then choose a heavenly realm to be in for a while, etc. One mans heaven is another mans hell. Christians BELIEVE that when you die you have no choices.

[Mattnxtc 0]

The reality you are pessimistic about doesn't exist. That is just my opinion though. Why do you worship a baby killer?I never said i was an atheist. I believe that when I die I have choices. For example, I can choose a hellish realm to be in for a while, then choose a heavenly realm to be in for a while, etc. One mans heaven is another mans hell. Christians BELIEVE that when you die you have no choices.

So you believe you can do whatever u want on earth but still have any choice you want in heaven??? This is a common "reality" for nonbelievers....What i find funny about this is you say you control your own destiny...you just shouldnt be held responsible for the life you lead. very contradictoryWhen did God kill a baby? He actually saved them from an eternity in Hell...crap if i had the choice right now to be killed and go to heaven now or to spend another 60 years on earth...id choose the former

[zzz 0]

So you believe you can do whatever u want on earth but still have any choice you want in heaven??? This is a common "reality" for nonbelievers....What i find funny about this is you say you control your own destiny...you just shouldnt be held responsible for the life you lead. very contradictoryWhen did God kill a baby? He actually saved them from an eternity in Hell...crap if i had the choice right now to be killed and go to heaven now or to spend another 60 years on earth...id choose the former

Yes. "At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.” (Exod. 12:29) "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”” (1 Sam. 15:2-3) "Give them, O Lord – what will you give them? Give them wombs that miscarry .... Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring." (Hosea 9:14-16) “Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan replied, "The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die." (2 Sam. 12:13-14)

[Mattnxtc 0]

Yes. "At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.” (Exod. 12:29) "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”” (1 Sam. 15:2-3) "Give them, O Lord – what will you give them? Give them wombs that miscarry .... Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring." (Hosea 9:14-16) “Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan replied, "The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die." (2 Sam. 12:13-14)

way to take it out of context