Christianity And The Theory Of Evolution By Natural Selection

[Loismustdie 0]

Where in Bible does God talk to other people during the "creation"?How you can deny Jesus saying "I AM THE beginning."And say God is the beginning, and say Jesus is not God...

Here you go:Gen.126] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. He was talking to somebody- since Jesus is the beginning as well you can assume he is there. Let us make man in our image- and then he creates man in his own image meaning we are spirit- as Christ is as well, before and after his birth. For all we know God created Christ- the bible doesn't say, it just refers to christ as his son.

[Flack_attack 0]

Actually, Jesus is the Creator of all things.

[Mattnxtc 0]

Here you go:Gen.126] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. He was talking to somebody- since Jesus is the beginning as well you can assume he is there. Let us make man in our image- and then he creates man in his own image meaning we are spirit- as Christ is as well, before and after his birth. For all we know God created Christ- the bible doesn't say, it just refers to christ as his son.

We actually know the FAther didnt create Jesus (john 1). and the highlighted parts above show that there was others there at the time of creation of man....Those would be the Son and the Holy Spirit. So again all you have shown is that the Father created man in His image...You have yet to show how this makes Jesus not a God.

[Loismustdie 0]

We actually know the FAther didnt create Jesus (john 1). and the highlighted parts above show that there was others there at the time of creation of man....Those would be the Son and the Holy Spirit. So again all you have shown is that the Father created man in His image...You have yet to show how this makes Jesus not a God.

Can't help you there- it's all over the scriptures, right in front of you. Just read. Here is an easy one-Eph 4-4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;[5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. One God and father of all. Nuff said.

Actually, Jesus is the Creator of all things.

Scripture please?

[Flack_attack 0]

Scripture please?

Sure. Colossians 1: 15-17. Enjoy.

[Loismustdie 0]

Sure. Colossians 1: 15-17. Enjoy.

Nope. I will break it down for you: 12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 12 is talking of god. 13 of God, and talks of his son. 14 of his son. 15 it refers to the son bieng in the image of God. 16 We are back to talking of God again. For by him is reffering to the invisible God mentioned in 15. Next?

[Flack_attack 0]

Colossians 1:14-18 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood,[c] the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.So, Lois, you are saying that all bolded "He"s are referring to the Father and not the son?

[Loismustdie 0]

Colossians 1:14-18 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood,[c] the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.So, Lois, you are saying that all bolded "He"s are referring to the Father and not the son?

Actually, looking at it I wonder what firstborn over all creation means. Is it saying that Jesus was the first creation? Interesting scripture. It's really a little easier- " In the beggining God created the heavens and the earth." It doesn't say God and a commitee- just God. I think that the he's are a combination of the 2- some are reffering to God and some to christ. To understand this scripture you would have to know your bible.

[Flack_attack 0]

I think that the he's are a combination of the 2- some are reffering to God and some to christ.

No. Because of the word "and" which begins the sentences, all of the bolded Hes must refer to one entity. It simple grammar. So again I ask you, is it the Father or the son?

[Loismustdie 0]

No. Because of the word "and" which begins the sentences, all of the bolded Hes must refer to one entity. It simple grammar. So again I ask you, is it the Father or the son?

We already know who created everything- it's the first thing the bible tells you!!! It's kind of like that test that says #1 Before you do anything read all of the directions.. and then it goes on to tell you to do all sorts of things, and most people forget the first sentence until it's to late. And for the answer I would say the he's are reffering to the father. Christ being the body of the church, and the chief cornerstone but God being the authour I would say that God is the head of the church. It's his ideas, it's his laws, that's logical enough.

[Flack_attack 0]

Lois, please carefully read each simple question and answer with only yes/no, as they relate to the above posts about Colossians 1. Thank you. You argued against Jesus being the Creator in your above post by stating that verse 16 refered to the Father, correct?You also acknowledged that all of the "He"s and "Him"s I bolded also refered to the Father and only the Father, because they came after directly after verse 16 (which, to you, refered to Father) and were connected using the word "and" at the beginning of the sentence, correct?So, logically, the person in verse 16 (who created all things) is the same person who is talked about in the rest of 16 and 17-18, correct?

[Loismustdie 0]

Lois, please carefully read each simple question and answer with only yes/no, as they relate to the above posts about Colossians 1. Thank you. You argued against Jesus being the Creator in your above post by stating that verse 16 refered to the Father, correct?You also acknowledged that all of the "He"s and "Him"s I bolded also refered to the Father and only the Father, because they came after directly after verse 16 (which, to you, refered to Father) and were connected using the word "and" at the beginning of the sentence, correct?So, logically, the person in verse 16 (who created all things) is the same person who is talked about in the rest of 16 and 17-18, correct?

No, because as the verses change who it is reffering to at different points- it's easier for me to see it I think because I already know some things going into it, like the scriptures that say there is only one God for example- that's pretty straightforward. One God. Therefore, not 2 or 3-one. So, when looking over this scripture- and I already walked you through it- keep that in mind and it might help you see where the entity that is being reffered to changes. Or, maybe it wont help at all, but it's worth a try. Really, in this situation you really need to read the whole chapter to get the clear idea of what is being said.

[Flack_attack 0]

Actually, this paragraph is in the very beginning of the chapter. Also, anyone in the world can tell that the person referred to in verse 16 (the Creator) is also the person talked about in 17 and 18.Again I ask you, please answer the three questions.15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.15 is obviously Jesus16 you say is the Father (since the Father is the creator)Logically and grammatically, if 16 is the Father, then 17 and 18 have to be about the Father also.

[Loismustdie 0]

Actually, this paragraph is in the very beginning of the chapter. Also, anyone in the world can tell that the person referred to in verse 16 (the Creator) is also the person talked about in 17 and 18.Again I ask you, please answer the three questions.15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.15 is obviously Jesus16 you say is the Father (since the Father is the creator)Logically and grammatically, if 16 is the Father, then 17 and 18 have to be about the Father also.

You know what? I am not trying to be anything but honest here, but I did my part. If you can't see it, I can't help you. I don't feel like giving you another chart, or word for word- frankly, it's boring. But.... for one last time. the key is in the phrase- he is the image of the invisible God. It refers to Jesus, and God. From that point on, prior knowledge SHOULD dictate understanding, in that you know there is only one God, so he can't be refering to Jesus as God.

[Flack_attack 0]

Please do not give me charts or long answers. I wish only for you to answer the three questions I asked you, and you still have yet to respond. It only takes three yes/no answers.

[Loismustdie 0]

Please do not give me charts or long answers. I wish only for you to answer the three questions I asked you, and you still have yet to respond. It only takes three yes/no answers.

I answered your questions. Is this some kind of joke?

Please do not give me charts or long answers. I wish only for you to answer the three questions I asked you, and you still have yet to respond. It only takes three yes/no answers.

Furthermore, I now have to draw the conclusion that you are in no way looking for answers- you are looking for what you want to hear. I can't do that for you. So, this little pow wow is over. Good luck.

[Flack_attack 0]

No. Forget the first two questions, you already answered yes and that is irrefutable. You have STILL not answered the third question, so I will pose it to you again. It's pretty simple, and in this context it doesn't really have anything to do with God being Jesus or not...The person referred to in verse 16 (you say God) is (logically and grammatically) the same person that is referred to in verses 17 and 18, is this correct or is it not?16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminencePerhaps I was not being clear. How is this not the same person?-Edited

[Loismustdie 0]

No. Forget the first two questions, you already answered yes and that is irrefutable. You have STILL not answered the third question, so I will pose it to you again. It's pretty simple, and in this context it doesn't really have anything to do with God being Jesus or not...The person referred to in verse 16 (you say God) is (logically and grammatically) the same person that is referred to in verses 17 and 18, is this correct or is it not?16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminencePerhaps I was not being clear. How is this not the same person?-Edited

Because of 15, where it speaks of both God and Christ, so from that point on in that line of thought he could be reffering to either or, so what you know prior to this scripture would help you understand what is being said, and which entity is being reffered to at which time.

[Mattnxtc 0]

Because of 15, where it speaks of both God and Christ, so from that point on in that line of thought he could be reffering to either or, so what you know prior to this scripture would help you understand what is being said, and which entity is being reffered to at which time.

verse 19 makes it extremely clear that verses 16-18 are about Jesus and not the Father...Do you see? when paul transitions back to the Father, he mentions Him directly by name...please ask an english teacher to explain how that works if you dont see it

[Loismustdie 0]

verse 19 makes it extremely clear that verses 16-18 are about Jesus and not the Father...Do you see? when paul transitions back to the Father, he mentions Him directly by name...please ask an english teacher to explain how that works if you dont see it

Lol. Mr. But the Greek says this weighs in. Where you been, man?

[Mattnxtc 0]

Lol. Mr. But the Greek says this weighs in. Where you been, man?

been real busy these days...and yes..ill trust the greek over the english any day of the week

[Loismustdie 0]

been real busy these days...and yes..ill trust the greek over the english any day of the week

Lol. I here you- I barely have time to sleep these days.

[Flack_attack 0]

Everyone PLease ReadHaha Lois you did not fall into my trap, but that's ok if you wont answer the question. I will just explain to you now why you are wrong about Jesus and this passage from Colossians. As Matt stated, any English or Grammar teacher in the world, along with anyone on this forum (including all atheists, agnostics, etc.) Will tell you that the entity being refered to in verse 16 has to be the same entity discussed in the rest of 16, and then 17-18. This is not even really an issue; if you cannot see this, then I truly pity you. Please do not be offended Lois and continue to read.So, we have established that 17 and and 18 refer to the person in verse 16. Still, this proves nothing about the Trinity yet. Maybe, as you argue, verses 17 and 18 refer to the Father (because you say 16 was the Father), and his pre-eminence, as stated in verse 18... Let us explore this possibility: Verse 18 talks of the Father's preeminence above all things, and his place in the Church. It is the last verse of this paragraph, and it seems clear that the paragraph is about how we should put the Father first (pre-eminent). Seems like this could be true enough, right? Wrong. The title of this paragraph (in the KJV) is The Pre-eminence of ChristVerse 18 is refering to Jesus Christ! Thus, verse 17 is refering to Christ. Thus, verse 16, as we grammatically established, must refer to Christ. Therefore, we must conclude that CHRIST IS THE CREATOR. We are using the KJV because otherwise you wouldn't accept it, however in other versions, it much much more clearer that the they are refering to Jesus, even saying His name instead of "He". However, we can also use the KJV to prove this point, as we just did.But Genesis 1:1 says God the Father is the Creator, no?God the Father is God the Son is God the Holy Spirit.I fully expect you to deny this, and that is natural, since it goes against anything you have ever believed. However, I expect that everyone, including the atheists, agnostics, and non-christians will agree with my logic. There really is no way you can refute this.

[Loismustdie 0]

Everyone PLease ReadHaha Lois you did not fall into my trap, but that's ok if you wont answer the question. I will just explain to you now why you are wrong about Jesus and this passage from Colossians. As Matt stated, any English or Grammar teacher in the world, along with anyone on this forum (including all atheists, agnostics, etc.) Will tell you that the entity being refered to in verse 16 has to be the same entity discussed in the rest of 16, and then 17-18. This is not even really an issue; if you cannot see this, then I truly pity you. Please do not be offended Lois and continue to read.So, we have established that 17 and and 18 refer to the person in verse 16. Still, this proves nothing about the Trinity yet. Maybe, as you argue, verses 17 and 18 refer to the Father (because you say 16 was the Father), and his pre-eminence, as stated in verse 18... Let us explore this possibility: Verse 18 talks of the Father's preeminence above all things, and his place in the Church. It is the last verse of this paragraph, and it seems clear that the paragraph is about how we should put the Father first (pre-eminent). Seems like this could be true enough, right? Wrong. The title of this paragraph (in the KJV) is The Pre-eminence of ChristVerse 18 is refering to Jesus Christ! Thus, verse 17 is refering to Christ. Thus, verse 16, as we grammatically established, must refer to Christ. Therefore, we must conclude that CHRIST IS THE CREATOR. We are using the KJV because otherwise you wouldn't accept it, however in other versions, it much much more clearer that the they are refering to Jesus, even saying His name instead of "He". However, we can also use the KJV to prove this point, as we just did.But Genesis 1:1 says God the Father is the Creator, no?God the Father is God the Son is God the Holy Spirit.I fully expect you to deny this, and that is natural, since it goes against anything you have ever believed. However, I expect that everyone, including the atheists, agnostics, and non-christians will agree with my logic. There really is no way you can refute this.

Poor fella had to throw in a Ha Ha even though I didn't bite. That's just sad.And as you will continue to ignore, the bible is written to/for christians. This is on e of those cases where I know what/who is being reffered to at which point, because of my prior knowledge, and my ability to not throw out other scripture because in one instance grammatically it could be misconstrued that Jesus is the creator, which in fact he is not. Jesus is not God, Jesus is just Jesus, the Son of God.

[Flack_attack 0]

The Bible is the written Word of God, meant for anyone who wishes to read and come into the light, not just Christians. And this is not a grammatical error nor is it misconstrued. The entire paragraph is referring to Jesus. There is mountains of evidence for the Trinity. You just can't accept in your blindness. Do you think people just pulled it out of thin air? It is Christian doctrine A vast majority of the world's Christians, except for a few cults, believe in the Trinity. Many many brilliant people much smarter than you or I have spent their lives studying the Bible and the Trinity. You just don't get it. You can't be the only begotten Son of God and not be God.