how do you play kk in nl cash games

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

tell me the odds of KK vs AA when there are 4 people left in $1000 buy-in tourney . cuz it happened to me at foxwoods in 2002. and I had the KK . not fun. whatever

Well, if I'm right in my methodology above, which I believe I am, then the odds of running KK to AA in a 4 handed table are 68:1. To clarify though, this doesn't mean that every 68 hands you'll run KK into AA at a 4 handed table. This means that every 69 times you get KK in a 4 handed table, ONE time will someone else have AA (disregarding variance). The $1,000 tourney and Foxwoods 2002 is irrelevant, I'm pretty sure. But, all that can be definitely said is that the poker gods shat on you that day, for sure.

[obs 0]

aces are like 220 to 1Yes, that's true, the odds of getting dealt any rank-specific pocket pair are 220.99936:1, or 221:1. The question, however, is what are the odds of getting dealt AA when two kings are out of the deck in a 10 handed table.

Quick guess is 221:9, but I could be wrong.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

aces are like 220 to 1Yes, that's true, the odds of getting dealt any rank-specific pocket pair are 220.99936:1, or 221:1. The question, however, is what are the odds of getting dealt AA when two kings are out of the deck in a 10 handed table.

Quick guess is 221:9, but I could be wrong.

Not trying to be an over-correcting douchebag, but here's how to figure it. 1 divided by [(4 aces)/(52 unseen cards)] x [(3 aces)/(51 unseen cards)] = odds of 220.999 to 1. The number of people at the table doesn't matter. This is the odds of just getting dealt a rank specific pocket pair. The odds of getting 2-2 are also 221:1

[looshle 6]

Yes its 1/221 for every person. 1/221 X 9 people = 9/221 or 24:1

[custom36 4]

Well, according to the WPT, the odds of someone having AA when you have KK are 44:1.

[obs 0]

Not trying to be an over-correcting douchebag, but here's how to figure it. 1 divided by [(4 aces)/(52 unseen cards)] x [(3 aces)/(51 unseen cards)] = odds of 220.999 to 1. The number of people at the table doesn't matter. This is the odds of just getting dealt a rank specific pocket pair. The odds of getting 2-2 are also 221:1

Think I misinterpretted what you said. I was thinking of what are the odds that someone else in a 10 handed table has KK when you get AA. I agree with you on the 221:1.I think this is why someone said there is a 25:1 chance someone has AA when you have KK with 10 people. This just seems too easy though and could be wrong.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

Well, according to the WPT, the odds of someone having AA when you have KK are 44:1.

If you were at a 6-handed table, which all WPT final tables are, then the odds that I calculate are 40.832, or 41 to 1. Perhaps that explains the discrepancy.

[Emptyeye 0]

Yes its 1/221 for every person. 1/221 X 9 people = 9/221 or 24:1

I totally took the convoluted statistics route and decided to do it as 1/221 = Percent chance person has aces.220/221 = Percent chance person DOES NOT have aces.(220/221^9) = Percent chance person one AND person two AND person three [...] AND person nine DO NOT have aces.1- (Whatever that number is) = Percent chance SOMEONE has aces.1/(That answer) = Odds (Approximate) to one SOMEONE has aces.Which gives, I believe, the correct answer.

[obs 0]

Well, according to the WPT, the odds of someone having AA when you have KK are 44:1.

If you were at a 6-handed table, which all WPT final tables are, then the odds that I calculate are 40.832, or 41 to 1. Perhaps that explains the discrepancy.

221/5 = 44.2I think that's where the 44 comes from. The 5 is the 5 other people you are playing against.

[obs 0]

The odds of being up against AA are def. not 23-1. If that is true, then in a 10 handed ring game, are you telling me that you'd see AA every 2-3 deals.

No, it means that for every 23 times you are dealt KK, someone else in a 10 handed game will have AA.Anyways, I hit that 23:1 two nights ago.

[akishore 0]

listen, i'm sure this has been said, but to reiterate:you MUST push in pre-flop with KK if someone re-raises you.overpairs are tricky hands to play post-flop in NL (the hardest to play well IMO), but pre-flop it should not be difficult at all.it sucks that you ran into AA six times in a row, but a bad streak doesn't change the fact that this is a rare occurence. statistics and probability theory says that random occurences are independent of each other--you're just as likely to run into AA six times in a row as you are to NOT run into them six times in a row (actually, in this case, you're much more likely to NOT run into them six times in a row).don't let past results affect your future play if you're making the right move.PUSH PRE-FLOP, DON'T LET YOUR OPPONENT SEE A CHEAP FLOP.aseem

[grantus 0]

Now I'm not going to pretend that I'm some probability wizz, I'm sure someone like Mike Caro could help us fix this up or some maths professor (however a lot of the time maths professors don't play poker so they forget certain little details that only a poker player would know)...anyway I was thinking that since we're looking at it from the perspective of the person who has Pocket KINGS shouldn't the odds that one person has pocket ACES be (4 aces/50 unknown cards * 3 aces/49 unknowns) since there are not 52 unknowns because we know that we are holding two kings.I will run through my probability and thinking and then tell you some of the complications (which i'm not sure truly matter or are negligible or are infact just plain stupid to consider) that I have.So you have 4/50*3/49 chance of one person having aces...if you take this as a headsup situation you get the answer = 0.00489796 chance of your opponent holding pocket aces when i'm holding pocket kings heads up. Which is about 204 to 1 (this seems to differ from the 221 to 1 or whatever people have been saying because I've taken it as 4/50*3/49 not 4/52*3/51 since there are two cards we know...If i'm making a mistake please somebody tell me but I think I'm correct.)If you want to work out for a 10 player game then you would get what the chances are of one person not having aces which is 1 - (4/50*3/49). Since the chances that somebody does not have aces is the same for every of the other nine players individually you can say that the chances for one person not to get aces is 0.99510204 INDIVIDUALLY. But as a group of nine other people the chances of all of them not having aces is 0.99510204^9 since you multiply the odds together for each person = 0.956772209 which if we deduct from 1 we get 0.043227791 chance of the inverse of nobody having pocket pair of aces (which is at least one person having them). This is about 23 to 1 for a ten handed game. So unlike what somebody said before that it is the same odds whether you have one person or nine people (which I think i'm quoting a bit out of context because they were working out just the odds of getting pocket aces) its definitely not. I mean think about it, its like thinking that pocket kings heads up are a lot stronger than pocket kings in a 10 handed game since there is a greater chance someone has aces in 10 handed game than in a heads up game.So there's about a 23 to 1 chance of someone having pocket aces in a 10 handed game, and about 204 to 1 chances of someone having it in a heads-up match. Somebody please tell me if i'm wrong! because I usually do forget something or mix myself up somewhere with all these numbers. The place where I get confused is the fact that i have the figure of one person not having pocket aces (and all this is sweet for heads up) but when it comes to 10 handed...i'm multiplying the odds of not having pocket aces for each person together...what about if one person has just one ace..maybe aceking or ace-whatever...then its still possible for somebody else to have pocket aces but its a lot harder. But the 'not having pocket aces' percentage includes hands like A-x and of course the X-X where X is a non-ace card. Maybe i'm just confusing myself with something that doesn't need to be confused, it always seems to be the way with me and probability...I always try to find another 'but' or 'if' in my working out even if it is such a slight chance to be negligible...I always want to be exact...which obviously would be pointless but mathematically it is satisfying to be exact. Can someone please tell me if this little dilemma about (1) whether i'm right in using 4/50*3/49 for my odds of getting dealt pocket aces is correct and (2) whether I should worry about the fact that getting pocket aces if someone else has A-X would be harder is worth worrying about... I'll try thinking about this some more. But I really get tired of sitting there thinking about things so much that I end up spending hours of thinking about these things...then my mind starts going off to where did the universe start and god knows where....Anwyay sorry its so long, thanks for ur replies...

[wrto4556 0]

Don't worry about aces when you have kings. I reraise 99-AA. Only one of those hands have you beat.How do I play Kings? I raise'em.

[Guest]

Don't be afraid to raise KK just because you might run in to aces. Most likely you won't, you will get called by something worse and win. Just get into it and lets gamble... Maybe you will flop a king and crack his aces anyways.....

[Skydancing8 0]

I am asking this because i am down several hundred on UB due to KK vs AA.

The answer to this one is easy. This only happens at the rate you're speaking of on UB. I stopped playing on there because of this reason.

[Markmadness 0]

My first time ever playing NL on party poker. I jumped in the 25nl table. My very first playable hand was KK. I raised 3 bucks. Then some guy raised me all in he was the big stack. I called immidiately and he flipped over AK. I won. I would call an all in every single time with KK. At those levels. Now if i was playing at the new 1000 NL tables then i would not gamble so much. But ya raise. But if you do lose, don't think you are entitled to win. That's poker, and that's no limit.

[Abbaddabba 0]

The correct answer is: not probable enough to ever be bet out of a hand while holding them preflop.

[Erudis 0]

Most of the poker I play is NL cash games (generally 1/2 and 2/4 blinds if/when I multi, sometimes I'll play 5/10 blinds when I only want to play 1 table). Unlike in a tourney where there are a small variety of situations where laying KK down preflop is a champion move, I've come to the conclusion (conclusion from experience, not the result of a mathematical argument) that I will never hesitate to push all in preflop with KK in a NL cash game.Because so many people confuse NL tournament play with NL cash game play many many many times people will push all in preflop with hands other than AA. If you play a lot of NL cash games you'll see how frequent this happens. It's rediculous and stupid and it makes me very happy.On the other hand, any other 2 cards I could have besides KK and AA I am willing to lay down preflop in a NL cash game if I don't like the situation I'm in for one reason or another.If you ever play with unreasonable fear in a NL cash game (worried anytime you have KK someone might have AA and so you play scared is unreasonable fear and otherwise anti-poker) step off the mound for a while and chill out at the limit games because you are fixing to get yourself torn up. I don't say that in a mean way or anything either - I do it from time to time when I hit bad runs where every big pot I'm involved in I lose. It happens.By the way, on the WPT episode tonight it stated that the odds of someone else getting AA when you have KK in a 6-handed game is 44:1. I've lent most of my poker books out to friends right now and I know the odds for KK running into AA is in there for 2-handed to 10-handed...

[rog 0]

If you're not going to call all-in with KK in a cash game, then you shouldn't be playing NL. Seriously...pot limit or fixed limit are a better choice. KK is the second best hand available. You have to get money in the pot preflop with KK, and trust that in the long run it will work out. In some games, the best way to juice the pot is to go all in. In others, it's a smaller raise or a check raise. If I'm late position with only a couple limpers, I'll even limp with KK, although that's rare for me since if you flop an A, you may end up laying it down. Read the table and do whatever you have to do to get THEIR money in YOUR pot. Dont ever fold KK preflop in a cash game.Are you exagerating a bit in saying you lost to AA 6 consecutive times with KK? It seems a bit far-fetched. Sometimes it seems worse that it is until you read through the hand histories.Rog

[justblaze 0]

I remember reading somewhere once that if you get dealt KK in a 10-handed table, the odds are 25:1 that someone else has AA. I'll take those odds, and the odds of KK against any other hand all in. KK and AA are the only two hands I'll call an all-in with at a cash game, because their expected value is an order of magnitude higher than other hands, even QQ. You've got to think long run, you won't keep getting douched like this.

those odds dont change if you have 23o though, so its kind of irrelevant.

[WaffleMcHat 0]

No I assure you I am not exxagerating at all.It happens everytime I have KK.I raise/reraise and one of the blinds immediately pushes all in and I call. Of course KK vs AA. I just cross my fingers everytime and call and of course see rockets. It is making it very hard to profit from NL on UB but I am breaking even or coming out slightly ahead.I have ran into QQ once and actually lost when he hit a set. Othertimes they have had AK and hit an ace. Just a run of bad luck but its pretty damn frustrating and whenever I see cowboys now I just shake my head and hope for the best.You can imagine that this happening 6x would make me kind of hesitant to call all ins with KK or reraise all in. I guess I will continue to do just this though and hope that someday I will actually win.

[PUNNISHER 0]

All in or atleast make a signifant re-raise with KK. If you run into Aces or even a set, well as Doyle says..."I am just going to have to pay off the set". You can't possibly win every poker hand you tangle up in, so you have to really push the ones where you do have a signifant edge in. L*

[WaffleMcHat 0]

btwwhen i say "this has happened 6x in a row" I am referring to whenever one of the blinds or someone in front of me reraises all in and I call. Not that I had pocket kings 6 times and each time I had them ran into aces.Just trying to clear this up.

[jayistheman 0]

i take a "no nonsense" approach to this hand in online play anymore.case in point:other day im in a NL 100 table with about $130get KK on the buttonfirst position does the stupid ****ing one over raise (which is all the rage these days) and makes it $2 to go.5th position one overs him and makes it 4 to go.well.... i dont like this nonsense one bit.... i have 0 read on what they have, and that raise is a little too low... i'm also not too wild about taking a flop 3 handed.so i decide what to do...its 4 bucks to me now, and i figure the guy who reraised will call about anything. i would normally make KK about a 6x or 7x raise on this table because its so loose. the pot is now $7.50i decided to raise 6x the pot... so i bumped it up to $45.... whats funny is that i knew that 5th position was calling.... he showed some pre flop agression, and he would not be raised out for anything. he called off 45 of his remaining 60 only to call all in on the raggedy flop with AK high. i love itthis play seems ridiculous, i know... but online NL is like that

[Jubba 0]

In a cash game I would make the call almost everytime. You can't be afraid of those aces all the time. Being afraid isn't a good strategy to have in a poker game.However, I have mucked KK preflop in a couple tournaments before, and post-flop on a 9-high board. Tournament play is different though. In a cash game you can always pull up another buy-in. In a tournament, if you're out, you're out...quick story about a stupid home game: second hand of the night I pick up KK.I raise from first position to $2pos 2 (really close friend): re-raises to $4pos 3: foldspos 4 (total schmuck): callspos 5 (semi-decent): callspos 6: foldsD: foldssb: foldsbb: callsI go all-in because there is an arse-load of money in the pot and I just want to take it down now.everyone folds/folds out of turn. My friend in 2nd pos looks at me and says, I've never laid this down pre-flop before and mucks QQ. pos 4 (the schmuck) says, "Ah, f**k it! Let's gamble!" flips over As-9s. As soon as he flips it I have this feeling like "I'm going to lose this hand."He drills not one, but two Aces on the flop. Looks at me and goes, "I wouldn't have called you in they weren't suited. I figured you had Ks or Qs, but I had an Ace so if I hit one then I was good."I would rather gotten beat by AA than A-9. I ended up losing $60 that night because of a terrible run of cards and the fact that I was on tilt from the second hand on...The moral of the story: just be happy you're getting beat by a legitimate hand, rather than getting crushed by some moron w/ 3 outs in the deck.