Bottom Set Against 2 Re-raises

[crankin 0]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)SB ($15.94)BB ($49.70)UTG ($17.50)UTG+1 ($20.75)MP1 ($14.09)Hero ($83.57)MP3 ($47.75)CO ($44.95)Button ($22.35)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 3 , 3 . SB posts a blind of $0.25. 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, BB checks.Flop: ($3.25) T , 8 , 3 (6 players)BB checks, MP1 bets $0.5, Hero raises to $3, MP3 raises to $9, CO folds, Button calls $21.85 (All-In), BB folds, MP1 folds, Hero ???There have been a number of posts lately discussing whether you should lay down sets or not. So, I thought this was an interesting situation. Is this a case where we can consider laying down the set. Or, do we look at it as a way to make even more money?MP3 is Tight-Passive pre-flop and TAG post-flop. My comments on him say "He bets straightforwardly" (for whatever that's worth, ). No read on Button. And note, the converter messed up somewhere as Button didn't call an all-in, he raised all-in.

[Garn 0]

I call. pocket 10's would raise preflop probably and 8's might as well. I think that your set is good as of now.

[oldirtyharry 0]

All in. Buttons all in means absolutely nothing in my mind, and mp3 could easily have A10, JJ, T8, str8 draw, or god knows what else. I dont lay this down, no way. This is what you should be waiting for.

[tapeworm 0]

I call. pocket 10's would raise preflop probably and 8's might as well. I think that your set is good as of now.

Mp3 is tight-passive PF, so he probably wouldn't raise 10s or 88s preflop, so discounting that is a mistake. In fact, I am guessing he might play JJ this way. That might be pushing it a bit, but I see some poeple limping with almost all their PPs in full ring.I am not sure if "straightforward" includes reraising with TPTK here. Some people would be passive with it, and some would raise to protect it and see where they are at. But I guess I put him on A10, 88, 1010, 10-8, JJ, probably in that order of likeleness.Against that range weighted equally(from PokerSTove), we are 59%. I don't know how to do weighted holdings(say he has TP more often, etc.), but if we throw out JJ our percentage is 46%.I would lean towards pushing since there will be lots of money in the pot and atleast one guy is dead or drawing. Even if you are 46%, the dead money might justify a call. But, I do think this is a situation that you could consider folding a set. The only reason though, is because I am discounting MP3 having a draw based on your "straightforward" read(which could be a big mistake) and that you have bottom set ond not middle or top set. Also, you do not have much invested, so you could fold the best hand and not worry about it too much. In fact...heck...fold it....i said it...there...i might have to join "folding sets annonymous" now. Another thing to consider is that if we push, he might fold TP, skewing our odds against hands he calls with.EDIT: When I throw in A10s and A10o(which might be the only way to weight it more) your win% jumps to 70%, so considering we are discounting draws(even like A8d), folding even seems like a mistake here.

[Jay-Dub 0]

I think you've got to get your money in there. Considering all the limping it's more likely you're looking at hands like 10-8, AT, Jd9d, Ad8d, JJ and 88. I think a big part of the question here is wether to reraise MP3 for all his chip or just call Button's raise. Assuming MP3 is willing to put in $12 more (which is highly likely), he's prob going to but the $26 he has left after that $12 either right there or on the turn. Might as well put him to the test now.

[NoSup4U 0]

Why the rash of these types of questions recently?Almost any player you ask, pro, non pro, whoever, will say you don't fold a set on the flop, unless the board is ultra scary (flush or clear obvious straight) and a rock who wouldn't put all his chips in without the nuts, puts in all his chips.Oversets happen. Trying to avoid them is way more costly than running into them.Mark

[iggymcfly 0]

It is possible to fold a set in the right circumstance. This, however, isn't it. If you're deepstacked, you (or an opponent) represents extreme strength, and then someone overbets, that's the kind of situation where you just have to be against a set. In this situation, MP made a standard check-raise, and button, realizing that he'd be pot-committed if he called, raised all-in. This could be anything from TPTK to a big draw. The play here is absolutely to call and then put MP all-in on the turn.

[crankin 0]

Why the rash of these types of questions recently?Almost any player you ask, pro, non pro, whoever, will say you don't fold a set on the flop, unless the board is ultra scary (flush or clear obvious straight) and a rock who wouldn't put all his chips in without the nuts, puts in all his chips.Oversets happen. Trying to avoid them is way more costly than running into them.Mark

I know there have been a lot of posts about sets lately. However, most of those have been like "I hit my set on the flop, should I lead out?" or "I hit my set on the flop, and someone bet into my, should I raise?"I thought this situation was more interesting, as someone min-bet, I raised, and then two players behind me raised as well. Just curious if anyone might give either of them credit for a set in a situation like this.

It is possible to fold a set in the right circumstance. This, however, isn't it. If you're deepstacked, you (or an opponent) represents extreme strength, and then someone overbets, that's the kind of situation where you just have to be against a set. In this situation, MP made a standard check-raise, and button, realizing that he'd be pot-committed if he called, raised all-in. This could be anything from TPTK to a big draw. The play here is absolutely to call and then put MP all-in on the turn.

Don't know if it changes your thoughts at all, but there wasn't a check-raise here. MP1 min-bet. I raised, MP3 re-raised, and then the button re-raised all-in. So, button, seems to like his chances against two players that have already raised a pot that wasn't raised pre-flop. I'm not even sure TPTK wants that kind of heat. I could see a big draw (like J 9 or 9 7 ) making that move.

[The Nuts 0]

I'd push all in here. There are only two hands that beat you. Unless one of your opponents is an extreme rock who will only play the absolute nuts, then you've gotta push.

[myenemy 0]

T8. He has T8 more than likely. Pay it off. Call and get rivered by the 4-outer like a man.

[MasterLJ 0]

Oversets happen. Trying to avoid them is way more costly than running into them.

I've never heard it so well put.

[fckthis 0]

As smash would say, PUSH.

[MasterLJ 0]

Can we just translate these posts from now on to..."HAI GAIS. I LOSTED MONEY WITH AN UNDERSET, HOW DO I STOP LOSING MONEY WITH AN UNDERSET>!?!?!?!??!?1111!1!oneoneoneoneoneoneoneoneexlcamationexclamation. I'M SERIAL!"

[Peak01 0]

Put it all in and lose like a Man on the river! Don't forget to type "nh"

[crankin 0]

Put it all in and lose like a Man on the river! Don't forget to type "nh"

That's exactly what I did, and that's exactly how it turned out. :)I'm not complaining, as most everyone says, you generally need to put your money in with a set, and just deal with it when an overset occurs.I was just curious if this had been one of those times where you might fold bottom set, given the chain of raises.

[Peak01 0]

PUSH a stack inPUSH another stack inand PUSH the last stack in!

[Blink20 0]

just incase someone read past all the other posts and missed the right strat, here it is again:EASIEST PUSH IN THE WORLD.draw heavy flop, and many hands you are well ahead of. Set in NL, GOLD. Besides, you've got an out to quads if behind .

[joelav128 0]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)SB ($15.94)BB ($49.70)UTG ($17.50)UTG+1 ($20.75)MP1 ($14.09)Hero ($83.57)MP3 ($47.75)CO ($44.95)Button ($22.35)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 3 , 3 . SB posts a blind of $0.25. 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, BB checks.Flop: ($3.25) T , 8 , 3 (6 players)BB checks, MP1 bets $0.5, Hero raises to $3, MP3 raises to $9, CO folds, Button calls $21.85 (All-In), BB folds, MP1 folds, Hero ???There have been a number of posts lately discussing whether you should lay down sets or not. So, I thought this was an interesting situation. Is this a case where we can consider laying down the set. Or, do we look at it as a way to make even more money?MP3 is Tight-Passive pre-flop and TAG post-flop. My comments on him say "He bets straightforwardly" (for whatever that's worth, ). No read on Button. And note, the converter messed up somewhere as Button didn't call an all-in, he raised all-in.

You got to call here... if they have you beat w/set over set nothing you can do. Besides, people on PP are crazy

[cu in 4years Dan 1]

ALL IN!

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Obvious fold. Just kidding, push.

[MasterLJ 0]

Obvious fold. Just kidding, push.

I've never thought of it that way. I agree.

[Shizzmoney 0]

Got to call. The only logical set that beats you in an un-raised pot is 88, and if you're coolered, you're coolered.My guess is someone has an overpair, probably JJ (alot of ppl play JJ very weak so limping with it at this level is not out of the question) and the other has a diamond draw, maybe 9 7

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

I've never thought of it that way. I agree.

I was kidding. I'm spraining a wrist to get my chips in.