Ak Is Killing Me

[MasterLJ 0]

AK is single-handedly (pun intended) ruining my NL winnings.LJ: $50DoucheyMcDouche: $11Douchey is UTG and calls.I raise 5xBB... folds around, douchey calls.Flop is A 5 8I bet out the pot (about $3), he raises all in. For $7 more bucks I'm calling. Mr. McDouche flips over A5. It holdsLJ: $70 (bb)Villain: $50 (mp)UTG makes it 2 bucks (0.25 blind), MP calls, I call.Flop is K 10 8. UTG leads for 3.5, MP calls 3.5, I make it 10, UTG folds, MP pushes, I call. Helllooooo 10 10.LJ: $50EvilGuy: $10I make it 4xBBFlop is AJ2I bet the pot, he re-raises all in, I call. Hellloooo AJ.The biggest problem I'm having is that at these stakes the way these people play A10 to a AJ2 board, and how they play AJ to a AJ2 board is identical. My thoughts are that if I fold every time someone pushes on a flop like the ones described above, I'm going to be losing over the long run. The only hand that I think I should have folded was the K 10 8 board, it just made too much sense for villain to have a set.Thoughts?

[DonkSlayer 1]

1st hand, you have to call. You played fine, bad beat.2nd hand, fold to the all-in. Well-played before.3rd hand, put him allin preflop. You still end up getting beat if he calls, but maybe he lays it down if the blinds are very small.

[MasterLJ 0]

1st hand, you have to call. You played fine, bad beat.2nd hand, fold to the all-in. Well-played before.3rd hand, put him allin preflop. You still end up getting beat if he calls, but maybe he lays it down if the blinds are very small.

So, just variance and a poorly played hand #2? That's what I chalk it up to be.Hand #3, he didn't give me the chance to push all in pre flop. I don't want to open with an all-in.Just as an aside (and a rant), I was in the SB with AQ, button is an absolute maniac. He raises (like he does 90% of the time), I push. He calls, flips over Aclub9hFlop 789 (all clubs), turn 4clubs.I was getting clubbed like baby Canadian seals.

[Fanatikk 0]

So, just variance and a poorly played hand #2? That's what I chalk it up to be.Hand #3, he didn't give me the chance to push all in pre flop. I don't want to open with an all-in.Just as an aside (and a rant), I was in the SB with AQ, button is an absolute maniac. He raises (like he does 90% of the time), I push. He calls, flips over Aclub9hFlop 789 (all clubs), turn 4clubs.I was getting clubbed like baby Canadian seals.

record your next 500 hands with AK, then see how you're doing.Sklansky thinks it's not a bad play to just always move all in preflop. I don't see how it's +ev. He might have suggested that for new players though. Can't remember, I've read too many books.The second hand, I might have reraised there to see where you were. Tens might have reraised all in(who knows) and you could get away from the hand. I dunno. I don't think you played horribly...just three instances where AK didn't make it.

[oldirtyharry 0]

Sklansky thinks it's not a bad play to just always move all in preflop. I don't see how it's +ev. He might have suggested that for new players though. Can't remember, I've read too many books.

There is no way I can believe it's +EV. In low nl games, the only hands I can see being +EV at all to move all in with preflop is AA and KK. Not even sure if QQ would be profitable.

[Fanatikk 0]

There is no way I can believe it's +EV. In low nl games, the only hands I can see being +EV at all to move all in with preflop is AA and KK. Not even sure if QQ would be profitable.

Yeah, I think it was a suggestion for early on in a big tournament. Most people play pretty tight and do not want to risk all their chips. He figured that even with a call you're a coinflip..unless you run into the big two. Still don't like the play.

[hblask 1]

The biggest problem I'm having is that at these stakes the way these people play A10 to a AJ2 board, and how they play AJ to a AJ2 board is identical. My thoughts are that if I fold every time someone pushes on a flop like the ones described above, I'm going to be losing over the long run. Thoughts?

Nobody responded to this part, which is the part I am most interested in. I play at these low levels, and have this exact same problem (or maybe it's not a problem). I've seen people go all-in not only on top-pair weak-kicker, but also with middle-pair middle-kicker on a board where people are betting aggressively. And not just as an occasional bluff, but a LOT, as if they think they are going to win. So far my strategy has been to play tight and let them have their small victories, and then take them for a big one when I think my cards will hold up. Usually people who do this will not fold, so you can make it pay off big when you win. Is there any other way to play these people? (Not that I'm complaining, it seems to be profitable.) I think of them as "collectors" -- they gather up the blinds that they buy with their aggressive bets on bad hands, so that I can win all the blinds at once with only a fraction of the risk. Their fee for their work is that occasionally, they do have they better hand and collect from me, too. It makes them feel like they are making progress and that their "strategy" is working, so it's a small price to pay.So yeah, I probably fold a lot of hands that would've won (say, with a top pair, weak kicker vs their middle pair), but I figure I'll get it eventually anyway, so they can hold my money for while if it keeps them coming back.

[MasterLJ 0]

As the above poster said, the important issue is that A8 is playing the same as AJto a board of AJ2. You cannot tell. And I know it's profitable for me, but when Joe_Short_Buy buys for minimum, you don't have room to gather information.

[Actuary 3]

Position.Isolate those bad players.Widen your raising hands to get it HU with them.Be willing to call their pushes with less than you would against better players.Obviously, if they buy in cheap, dblup and leave..well..you miss a chance... although I seriously doubt that those make up much of the total problem.

[MasterLJ 0]

Position.Isolate those bad players.Widen your raising hands to get it HU with them.Be willing to call their pushes with less than you would against better players.Obviously, if they buy in cheap, dblup and leave..well..you miss a chance... although I seriously doubt that those make up much of the total problem.

I agree. I suppose this was a check up then as what you describe is exactly what I did to the total maniac I described in my second post in this thread (AQ vs A9). I generally do not view AQ as a pre-flop all-in hand.

[AceyDeucy 0]

Honestly, if you are bombing this badly with AK, slow down a bit.What I really suspect is that this is an unpleasant bit of variance, although the I with the general consensus on how the hands were played.If these losses really upset you, I would suggest leaning more towards the Phil Hellmuth style, which is to wait for players to give you their chips when they have the nuts, and be completely unwilling to play big with TPTK. I am not being sarcastic, because if stuff like this is messing you up enough to keep you from being on top of your game, it might be worth sacrificing some AK EV on behalf of the rest of your game. In the past I have had to put a few hands "on suspension" when I don't play them at all for a while, then opened up to play them in very cheap situations, and then kind of found my way to a normal range. While it did little to improve my game, it dramatically improved my results, since I had stopped spewing chips for a bit while I got my head right. just a thought.Oh, and don't worry about what bad players do. They're bad players, after all. If they had a good reasons for what they do, they would be bad, would they?

[DMBroller 0]

In the past I have had to put a few hands "on suspension" when I don't play them at all for a while, then opened up to play them in very cheap situations, and then kind of found my way to a normal range. While it did little to improve my game, it dramatically improved my results, since I had stopped spewing chips for a bit while I got my head right. just a thought.

I like this idea