Quiz Question #13

[Rocketwadster 0]

a lot of people said that A 10 is a possible hand, as well as pocket pairs. With these blind strucutres, I'd be fairly confident he's move in for the rest of his chips preflop with any pocket pair, and A 10. I put him on a wheel, but I also give him credit for two pair, just not Aces and Tens...

Ever hear of trying to "trap" your opponent with a strong hand. I could see many of the players that were invited to this "tourney" checking with hands that contain aces, and even a high pair. You have to remember that the players involved in the hand in question are some of the best players in the world at this game, not your average Joe playing some $10 SNG.

[shpaget 0]

I agree. The only hand that will call a re-raise on the river is the one that beats you, especially from the quality of opponents that DN is facing here for SS III. If someone had a smaller flush than DN, and DN re-raised the river, even for a min bet, they would probably assume they were beaten and lay it down. I put the villian on 45, btw, because of his hesitiation to call the re-raise on the flop (sometimes indicating a drawing hand) and then checking for a free card on the turn. I also think villina has a 45 because if he had an A-x (especially in the high rising Superstars III blind format), they would have raised preflop* from out of position to gain control of the betting and to also try to steal the blinds and antes.*Did anyone see Greenstein last night? He was playing like a maniac...just moving in on people left and right. But that;s how you got to play SS III I guess.

If you're willing to give the guy credit to fold a 9 high flush you also have to give him credit to fold a Jack high flush, fearing he's behind a Q or K....some guys, though not many, may even fold the Q high flush...so, following that through to its logical conclusion, a small percentage of the time you actually have fold equity here to make a better hand muck.At this stage, any flush and the wheel will most likely call an all in. Even the best in the world, most of the time, will have a hard time getting away from even 5d6d or 4h5c. That means of all the hands that will call your all-in, 18 beat you, and you beat 22.And that doesn't even count the two pairs and sets that may call you here.

[GABMAD 0]

Ever hear of trying to "trap" your opponent with a strong hand. I could see many of the players that were invited to this "tourney" checking with hands that contain aces, and even a high pair. You have to remember that the players involved in the hand in question are some of the best players in the world at this game, not your average Joe playing some $10 SNG.

Do you realize that an average player has approximately 12 BB?If you're shortstacked you wouldn't try to trap someone with A 10, it isn't that great of hand, even heads up you have to raise because this hand doesn't have amazing flop odds What if he misses flop? what then...Bet and commit yourself all in? Heads up, a winning strategy is aggression, not trapping. Trapping is still important but when you have more room for play. The structure of the tournament doesn't allow that. Maybe if he had JJ or better, he'd consider slow playing, 99 and lower pockets would not slow play as some1 could easily have J 5, Q 8 and limp from the button. They wouldnt' give their opponents a free flop to to outdraw them. Even, if they did slow play their high PP, they're beat by our flush, and all in is still the right move... But more likely than not, they do not have A 10, 33 44 77 1010(even less likely since you hold a 10). AA could try to slow play preflop, but would reraise the flop because with that kind of a flop (if the villain believes the hero holds a top pair, which is likely the case at the flop after we raise to 150k), the villain knows the the turn card is likely to make us weaker, and he knows we're likely willing to get all our chips in at the flop, but not after the turn if a scare card comes. Therefore, with AA he'd likely push after we raise to 150k. Everything is possible, but just very unlikely. most likely is a hand such as A 3 or 45. those are two possiblities that I think are the most likely because A 3 has pretty bad flop odds and he might prefer to see the flop b4 moving his chips in the middle preflop. however, I believe the most likely hand he's playing is 45 due to the way it was played.

[Rocketwadster 0]

I never mentioned any particular hands that he might trap with, but to simply state as you did that they would raise pre-flop with any pocket pair, would be incorrect. You are wrong, I am right, deal with it...lol

[GABMAD 0]

I never mentioned any particular hands that he might trap with, but to simply state as you did that they would raise pre-flop with any pocket pair, would be incorrect. You are wrong, I am right, deal with it...lol

ok, so let me get this straight, you're telling me that "people trap with pocket pairs"...I agree...You have to look outside the box sometimes...In this situation he wouldn't trap unless he had JJ or higher, I already explained why in my previous post, if you don't get it, keep thinking you're right.

[Rocketwadster 0]

my last post where I indicated I was right and you were wrong was a joke (hence the little smiley thingy), but now, your just being a pryck. We both agree (unless I'm mistaken about your gibberish) that pushing is the "correct" play here, but your reasoning differs from mine. So be it. lol

[ArcadianSky 0]

Ever hear of trying to "trap" your opponent with a strong hand. I could see many of the players that were invited to this "tourney" checking with hands that contain aces, and even a high pair. You have to remember that the players involved in the hand in question are some of the best players in the world at this game, not your average Joe playing some $10 SNG.

Why would he trap on a flop that has flush and straight possibilities? That would be an extremely amatuer play.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Why would he trap on a flop that has flush and straight possibilities? That would be an extremely amatuer play.

Holy phuck, does nobody know how to read around here? I never stated that he trapped on the flop. Some individual claimed that basically there was no way the opponent would have checked a pocket pair pre-flop, to which I stated that there is something that people sometimes do called "trapping". That's all I said; nothing else was inferred by my statement; I stand by it.Now, to your statement above - again, we have someone implying that due to a possible straight and/or flush being present, "trapping" would be an amateur play. As a general rule, I would tend to agree with you, in that you definately don't want to be giving away free cards that can beat you. However, the mere presence of a straight or flush draw does not automatically mean that you have to play a strong hand fast in order to protect it. I've seen many an exception to that "rule", and performed many myself as well (some with disastrous results, most with great results). Someone mentioned somewhere that you have to think outside the box or some other non-witty comment that has been spouted dozens of times, well, here I am saying something that would fall under just that (outside of the box), and am berated for it. Nonsense I say.

[ArcadianSky 0]

Holy phuck, does nobody know how to read around here? I never stated that he trapped on the flop. Some individual claimed that basically there was no way the opponent would have checked a pocket pair pre-flop, to which I stated that there is something that people sometimes do called "trapping". That's all I said; nothing else was inferred by my statement; I stand by it.Now, to your statement above - again, we have someone implying that due to a possible straight and/or flush being present, "trapping" would be an amateur play. As a general rule, I would tend to agree with you, in that you definately don't want to be giving away free cards that can beat you. However, the mere presence of a straight or flush draw does not automatically mean that you have to play a strong hand fast in order to protect it. I've seen many an exception to that "rule", and performed many myself as well (some with disastrous results, most with great results). Someone mentioned somewhere that you have to think outside the box or some other non-witty comment that has been spouted dozens of times, well, here I am saying something that would fall under just that (outside of the box), and am berated for it. Nonsense I say.

Berated? Why are you getting so defensive, I simply asked a question. You're making it seem like I raped your mother...

[Rocketwadster 0]

Did you? DID YOU???Its Monday, please take anything I say or do with a grain of salt, as it's MONDAY!LOLMy statement(s) stand though.

[Fat Tye 0]

First of all, I think we missed a bet here. I am happy with TP with a flush draw on the turn so I am making a turn bet. When the river d falls, what were we hoping for here? I'm hoping for a diamond, so I'm going all in! Flushes are strong hands, esp when HU. If he has a better hand, congratulations. I can see arguments for just calling based on the betting patterns and the fact that we will only have $250K left if he calls & wins. I would also agree with thoughts that he may only call with a better hand. He made a strong bet & to come over the top of that we basically have to have the flush or balls or steel.However, HU a flush is a HUGE hand so I will take my chances & put him all in here. It is hard enough to hit TP. When you are against only 1 opponent & make a hand this strong - let's bet it. Whether or not he calls with some hand worse than ours will depend a lot on table image & hands we have previously shown down.

[respec 0]

Pretty obvious Daniel is going to say "Call" here isn't it?This hand is clearly being shown as a counter-example of the last hand he posted. Namely, going all-in because "we played the hand like a made hand, not a draw". Here we checked the turn and actually did play it like a draw, yet still we're being led into.He's just illustrating how sometimes you make different plays in situations which appear to be superficially similiar because of subtle differences in the action leading up to that specific decision.This is the flip side of question 12, ship it.

[LooseCannon 0]

OK, think this through. What hands is your opponent betting here?--A flush--A bluff--Aces up--A set--A straightA hand like aces up would probably be bet with the intention of folding to a raise. If it even bets.What can the button raise with on the end? A flush and most likely only a flush. This isn't a good spot to bluff raise without a very good read because there is a fair chance you are up against a flush and it would be ludicrous to raise a set or two pair on the end.On the other hand, hands like KQ would often push the flop with a flush draw and two overs, so it seems less likely that you are beat by a higher flush than one would normally consider.What hands would the button raise with on the flop? Top pair. A flush draw. A straight draw. An overpair.What hands would the button raise with on the flop but check behind on the turn with? Top pair with a bad kicker. A flush draw. A straight draw.Given all this, I'd probably put the BB on either a bluff or a flush. Especially if the BB is capable of folding a smaller flush to a raise on the end (didn't Daniel Negreanu do that against Ted Forrest on the river on TV once?), I think that calling is better than raising.I would be more inclined to raise if I had the queen-high flush and the nut flush is a no-brainer.