StarlightCoast 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Over at Full Tilt Poker they have these pod casts and vidcasts One of the Podcasts i listens to was this: HOWARD LEDERER Full Tilt Poker Podcast #5 Your Online Poker Bankroll I listened with great interest to this broadcast and was shocked by what he said. To summarize: The 300 big bet bankroll is basically intended for live games. For online play the appropriate bankroll, in his opinion is 500 big bets because your swings are bigger online and this is if your trying to become an online pro and you really don't want to go broke. If you 4 table you should double this to 1000 big bets. They key is to set individual limits per session and if you lose it you need to get away from the online table for at least half a day. 30 big bets has always been his recommendation, but he says online that could be 50 big bets. He goes on to say never lose more than 10% of your bankroll in a single day. That last 10% in a day I have seen and heard many times, but I was shocked at the 500 big bet recommendation. The one thing that confused me is that you can't set a 50 big bet limit twice a day and also not lose more than 10% of your bankroll if you only have 500 big bets. If I play .50/$1 with a 500 big bet bankroll and I lose 50 big bets in the morning session, then leave for half a day, come back and lose 50 bets in the evening session I have in fact lost 20% of my bankroll so I guess you can't do both unless you have a 1000 big bet bankroll, however I won't stay at a table long enough to lose 50 big bets. 25 is my max. Anyway I was wondering what you all thought about this. All this time I was under the impression that 300 big bets was standard for online. Do you think Howard Lederer is being very cautious in suggesting 500 big bets? Perhaps the intention is to bring the ROR down to 1%. Very interested to hear some opinions on this. Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 This will get moved to the online poker forum, but before it does, I'll weigh in by saying I agree with him. The key is if you rely upon online poker for your living expenses. Totally different ballgame if you play casually or as additional income. 300BB is fine in that case. Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 This will get moved to the online poker forum, but before it does, I'll weigh in by saying I agree with him. The key is if you rely upon online poker for your living expenses. Totally different ballgame if you play casually or as additional income. 300BB is fine in that case.agreed, Thomas Keller has an article just like this a few months back in cardplayer. He recommended 1000 for a pro. Link to post Share on other sites
StarlightCoast 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 This will get moved to the online poker forum, but before it does, I'll weigh in by saying I agree with him. The key is if you rely upon online poker for your living expenses. Totally different ballgame if you play casually or as additional income. 300BB is fine in that case.oops, my bad. Sorry if I posted in the wrong forum. :oops: He said 500 big bets if are trying to become a pro which I am. I think that was the part that shocked me about the high big bet amount was that taking money out to live like a pro does was not part of it. He said just trying to become a pro and you should have this bankroll. I am trying not to take anything out of bankroll and just build it up and up. I am going to go with this advice. I mean afterall, he is the pro and I am not yet. Someday :-) But not quite there yet. Currently playing .25/.50 Limit. I have a long way to go. :? Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 To me, there is no difference in "trying to become a pro" if you're serious about it vs. actually being a pro. Once you try, you are one until you fail, so you should be managing all aspects of your game like you would manage a business. Link to post Share on other sites
stealfromblind 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 To me, there is no difference in "trying to become a pro" if you're serious about it vs. actually being a pro. Once you try, you are one until you fail, so you should be managing all aspects of your game like you would manage a business.who is that chick in your avatar? Link to post Share on other sites
shinychicken 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Fiona Apple Link to post Share on other sites
FullDeck 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Over at Full Tilt Poker they have these pod casts and vidcasts One of the Podcasts i listens to was this: HOWARD LEDERER Full Tilt Poker Podcast #5 Your Online Poker Bankroll I listened with great interest to this broadcast and was shocked by what he said. To summarize: The 300 big bet bankroll is basically intended for live games. For online play the appropriate bankroll, in his opinion is 500 big bets because your swings are bigger online and this is if your trying to become an online pro and you really don't want to go broke. If you 4 table you should double this to 1000 big bets. They key is to set individual limits per session and if you lose it you need to get away from the online table for at least half a day. 30 big bets has always been his recommendation, but he says online that could be 50 big bets. He goes on to say never lose more than 10% of your bankroll in a single day. That last 10% in a day I have seen and heard many times, but I was shocked at the 500 big bet recommendation. The one thing that confused me is that you can't set a 50 big bet limit twice a day and also not lose more than 10% of your bankroll if you only have 500 big bets. If I play .50/$1 with a 500 big bet bankroll and I lose 50 big bets in the morning session, then leave for half a day, come back and lose 50 bets in the evening session I have in fact lost 20% of my bankroll so I guess you can't do both unless you have a 1000 big bet bankroll, however I won't stay at a table long enough to lose 50 big bets. 25 is my max. Anyway I was wondering what you all thought about this. All this time I was under the impression that 300 big bets was standard for online. Do you think Howard Lederer is being very cautious in suggesting 500 big bets? Perhaps the intention is to bring the ROR down to 1%. Very interested to hear some opinions on this.you don't need 300 big bets' to get into a live game or a online game 100 big bets' is good.It's kind of like what Mike Caro says you should extend your sessions when your winning and cut them short when your losing.Pauce Link to post Share on other sites
ForKeeps 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 MMM...Fiona... Link to post Share on other sites
GamblinLeaf 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 oops, my bad. Sorry if I posted in the wrong forum. :oops: He said 500 big bets if are trying to become a pro which I am. I think that was the part that shocked me about the high big bet amount was that taking money out to live like a pro does was not part of it. He said just trying to become a pro and you should have this bankroll. I am trying not to take anything out of bankroll and just build it up and up. I am going to go with this advice. I mean afterall, he is the pro and I am not yet. Someday :-) But not quite there yet. Currently playing .25/.50 Limit. I have a long way to go. :?Keep in mind that 300BB is not some magic number. It comes from a mathematical formula which calculates how big a bankroll you need to avoid going broke based on your winrate and your standard deviation (how big your swings are). So this number can be bigger or smaller than 300BB depending on the player.As for 500BB, I think if your goal is to never go broke, then the more the better. Link to post Share on other sites
bcook823 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Howard basically runs an online poker site, why didn't he just say 2000BB? Link to post Share on other sites
tufat23 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 The 300 big bet bankroll is basically intended for live games. For online play the appropriate bankroll, in his opinion is 500 big bets because your swings are bigger online and this is if your trying to become an online pro and you really don't want to go broke. If you 4 table you should double this to 1000 big bets.i think its very important to aim to be a pro.granted most people wont ever actually be one, but one must always approach things with the right mentality.I always get asked by my friends and people that hear i play a lot of poker if i want to turn pro. what i tell them = no - (i'll just get a lot of sarcasm or cynicism otherwise)actual answer = yesif i didnt think this way i would not play properly, study the game or be practicing good BR management. I would really just be flat out gambling. It also not like im just gonna drop everything tomorrow and play poker as my sole source of income. (technically it is as i am still a student but thats another matter altogether)In terms of BR online i think it should be larger than 300BB simply because one has more money at risk at anyone time due to multitabling, so variance will be bigger. Link to post Share on other sites
Chopper 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 i may need to start a new thread w/ this question, but here goes.i think my philosophy on "stay when winning, leave when losing" is a bit different...is it not the # of hands we play and our win rate over the long run that we pay attention to instead of our "luck" at a given session? i guess i have too much confidence in my game because i play through losing and winning sessions the same. i am focused on logging hands, not making money. again if my win rate is solid, shouldn't that be the focus?i compare this "short-term strategy" to day trading in stock markets...trying to time ups and downs. whereas most investment advisors teach "long-term strategy" or "buy and hold." in short, i don't know if i'm going to win or lose any given session, but what i do know, is if i see 1000 hands i will win 50+ Big Bets. so, my goal is to see 1000 hands as fast as possible, not double up in the next 10 minutes.does this make sense, or am i off base? Link to post Share on other sites
econ_tim 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Howard basically runs an online poker site, why didn't he just say 2000BB?it would be in his interest to say something closer to 0BBdo u c y? Link to post Share on other sites
ForKeeps 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 i think its very important to aim to be a pro.granted most people wont ever actually be one, but one must always approach things with the right mentality.I always get asked by my friends and people that hear i play a lot of poker if i want to turn pro.I have to disagree with you. I respect your opinion and you seem intelligent, but to me poker is an extremely mental game, and if you don't have the right mentality, then you're going to lose, period. If you play golf, take lessons, etc., are you aiming to "go pro"? Sure, if you win some random tournament and make enough money to try for your Tour Card...but is this really the goal you have in mind? Could you really practice to become a pro when you have non-pro entities in your life, like a job, friends/family who need attention, other hobbies, etc?My opinion is that you should have your mindset/aim on what your current goals are. Mine for right now is for added income and maybe an appearance at a few big events. This allows me not to freak out if I have a bad night, or if I miss a session because of friends/family/other responsibilities, etc. If I qualified for a multi-million tourney and then cashed big time, would I consider going pro? Absolutely. The newfound money, however, would allow me to achieve this goal in a realistic and comfortable manner, vs. "oh maybe I can build my bankroll up enough by sacrificing the other things that matter in my life".I always get asked by my friends and people that hear i play a lot of poker if i want to turn pro.what i tell them = no - (i'll just get a lot of sarcasm or cynicism otherwise)actual answer = yesIf you ARE sacrificing a lot to play poker in hopes of becoming pro, then people will notice already (that appears to be the case already) and there's no point in denying it. If you can't convince them it's a realistic or worthy, find new friends that you'll be happier with. Happiness is what's most important, and I've learned thankfully early in my life that sentimentality for old things can be a huge hinderance to being happy. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 To me, there is no difference in "trying to become a pro" if you're serious about it vs. actually being a pro. Once you try, you are one until you fail, so you should be managing all aspects of your game like you would manage a business.who is that chick in your avatar?if she ain't fiona apple, i don't give a damn Link to post Share on other sites
Joenin 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Pros always give advice like this, and none of them followed it ;pLifes a gamble folks. Businesses and individuals gamble all the time. You thinking about getting married? You weigh the likelly hood it working out and good things happening vs divorce. Thinking of taking a new job? same thing. Poker is no different. Now I'm not justifying totally gambling in a irresponsable way, however one should always look at the risk to reward ratio. If you play on say a 900bb roll vs a 300bb roll, you'll be playing approximately 1/3 the stakes. Pretend you make 3bb/h in the small game and 2bb/h in the large game. You will make twice as much money, by playing with the 300bb role. Its a matter of statistics and how high of a risk of ruin your willing to accept, not blindly, but based on the rewards. Do not blindly follow BR advice from howard, or a PHD in mathametics for that matter. Figure out how comfortable of a risk your willing to take, and maximize your profits based on it. Link to post Share on other sites
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